I suck with live plants - any ideas?

[jefft]

Okay, I've been at this live plant thing for nearly 4 years now and I'm nearly ready to throw the towel in and go to the dark side (plastic plants).

I've got a 60 gallon, with a brand new compact flourescant putting out 192 watts (6700K bulbs). Light is on 11 hours/day.

Substrate is Seachem Flourite

Temp is 81 or so

PH is usually 6.5-6.8

Nitrates are 20 parts per million or less

Regularly use fertilzer

I bought the light mentioned above thinking this would do the trick, as I was lacking in the watts per gallon dept prior. The new light seems to be a waste of $ as 1) the plants aren't doing any better (I bought all new plants when I got the light), and 2) the light is resulting is algae everywhere. My plants are covered in it and I'm tired of scrubbing the acryllic.

Most of my local fish stores have beautiful display tanks and none of them use C02 so I know it can be done.

My plants did much better when the substrate was new - it's not running out of nutrients over time is it? Where might I be going wrong? Any help/advise would be greatly appreciated.

Jeff

[Leopardess]

Firstly at 3+ wpg, running w/o co2 is going to cause some debilating deficiencies, imo. I'm sure others will agree. My guess is if you did some DIY yeast co2 injection, you'd be seeing a big difference.
You might wanna ask how many wpg and what type of plants those display tanks w/o co2 use...im sure it can't be 3+ wpg, and if it is, boy are they lucky lol.

Also WHAT fertilizers are you dosing?

What kinds of plants do you have? You may have plants that don't even really respond to/need high lighting. With the light you have you could be growing glosso carpets lol.

If you just got the lights recently, the algae outbreak should be expected. Everything had been in balance but now the uppage in wpg needs to be accounted for. Give it time and figure out how to balance things out.

Do you have test kits for iron and the like?

[jefft]

First off, thanks for the feedback!

It sounds like you are saying that with 3+ wpg, I should be using C02? Is this too much light to not be using the C02? How much trouble is a DIY C02 yeast injection?

I'm currently using some fertilizers from Seachem, the 'Flourish/Comprehensive Plant Supplement' and 'Flourish Excel/Organic Carbon Source for the planted aquarium'

I'm not sure of all my plants - I do have an Amazon Sword and some bronze Wendt?? The Amazon is sprouting new leaves, but they come up about 2 inches and fizzle out - the rest of the leaves are covered in algae

As for Iron test kits, no I don't have one.

Is 3 wpg too much light for some plants?

[Captain Hook]

I don't think 3wpg is too much for plants but you definitely need to get some kind of CO2 injection into that tank.

[Grandmastr]

na 3wpg is fine

i have a 10 gallon plant tank and 20 gallon

the 10 has 3wpg and the 20 only 1wpg,,,

the 10 is like on steriods, stuff grows so quick while my 20 takes it time


192 watts sounds good
wat kind of fish u have in there-
wat kind of fertlizer u use and how much-
most likely u dont have enough c02
increase the fish bioload(make sure they wont eat plants)
and/or inject c02

well depends on the size of ur tank
i use a 1liter bottle diy c02 injection

fill the bottle half wit warm water
cup or 2 of sugar
half table spoon yeast
shake it up
drill a hole into the cap
run a tube out into ur tank
put silicone around the cap so no pressure leaks out
within a day u should see alot of bubbles from the diy bottle in ur tank

u probbaly have a big tank so i woudl go for gallon bottle and just times everything i said by 4 and see wat happens

my bottle last me around 2 weeks
all i do is unscrew the cap
refil wit sugar and more yeast


i dont always use c02 , right now my 10 gallon is housing tons of red devil fry and other types of fry, scared of poision them wit too much c02

and still my plants grow like weed, not as fast when its on c02 though

[125gJoe]

Did you plant heavily at the start? Then thin out later on...

You do need some CO2 at 3wpg..

If the plants aren't "established" or "new", use the lights less. To much light = algae..

HTH

[Grandmastr]

i love ur tank 125joe

ever breed those discus?

[125gJoe]

Grandmastr, Thanks!
They have laid eggs about 14 times... None have hatched.
I think they are too young, at about a year old...
If they don't breed, that will be ok too... :)

[Starry]

jefft - Sounds like you've done your research because, your set-up can be very successful. I have a few suggestions for you, and questions as well.

The obvious thing lacking is CO2. Most people will agree that it is a must at 3wpg. It seems like a big deal at first, but it's actually really easy. Your tank is quite big, but any CO2 at all will help. Try the Jell-O method; it's not hard to make, and lasts at least 2 months. Search old posts for different recipes, or try mine at http://aquaplants.web1000.com/art1.html

You're gonna want a CO2 concentration between 15-35ppm. I like 30. And how you find out how much you have is by testing KH and pH, and reading the results off a graph. Try this http://www.thekrib.com/Plants/CO2/kh-ph-co2-chart.html
As you can see, as pH decreases, CO2 increases. This is an important relationships to understand. You don't want a pH below about 6.8, but you want it low enough to give you a decent amount of CO2. KH is usually constant over time, so you just manipulate how much CO2 you add, and determine its effect by testing pH often. It takes time to get comfortable with it, but worth it.

What is your KH? Some people disagree, but I have found it extremely difficult to grow nice plants with a high KH (ie, higher than 10). Anything below that is good. If yours is high, you're gonna have to talk to someone who's dealt with that, because I failed miserably.

The problem with algae is that it won't go away until your plants are totally happy. You just cannot have sad-looking plants and no algae. It doesn't happen. Make the plants grow, then algae will go away. It took me a year, don't give up.

You need to dose macronutrients. No matter how much light you have, if you don't have N, P and K, plants cannot grow. Nitrogen dosing is not so important, but you can dose it jsut to be sure, to about 10ppm. Phosphorus is essential. It won't increase your algae, relax. But your plants need it. Dose it to about 1ppm. I use Seachem's products for these last two. You may want to look into an alternative source later on, but it's easier for now if you go with Seachem. Seachem is not good for potassium (K) because it's so dilute, you'll go through a bottle in like 3 weeks. The directions on the bottle are bogus, not nearly enough. You want 20 ppm (the directions are for only 1ppm I think). This is easy though. Next time you're grocery shopping, pick up a salt substitute in the salt isle. NoSalt or NuSalt are common. Make sure the ingredient in Potassium Chloride (KCl). Another K source is also available, can't remember what it is now.... Others will know. I absolutely guarantee you that if you dose P and K, you will see major improvements. Keep dosing traces (I think the Flourish you're adding now counts as that, I've never used it).

BTW, you should do weekly water changes, and dose the required amount of nutrients at change time. I would say that 15-20% per week is good enough if the plants are growing well. Others will tell you 50%. Your choice, the more the better I guess.

Now for the FUN part: plants. Get lots of cheap ones! Cheap plants are easy to grow and fast growers usually. Doesn't matter what, just LOTS of it. You can't beat algae if you only have a few slow or finicky plants. Fast-growing plants will help outcompete algae. Try to also remove as much as you can though. You can phase out the plants you don't really like later. They're not always the most attractive ones, and they get to be a pain in the *** when you have to hack out a bucketful of plants every week.

Well, there ya go. I really hate it when I go to all the trouble of typing everything up, and then people decide they're not interested :) So do yourself a favour and try this. Ask questions along the way, everyone here knows. They're just tired of repeating it to all the new people :)