Pond questions

[bazil323]

I'm finally going to get a pond! Yay! It's smaller than the one I originally was going to use. To make a long story short, my friend gave me a rigid pond liner that's no less than 50 gallons. I'll have to take exact measurements, but eyeballing it I'd say it's 75g. It's sort of weird dimensions being fairly small around but pretty deep.

Once I get the right measurements and figure out how many gallons it will hold, I will start thinking about fish. I'm not sure if I want fantail goldfish (I don't care for the more streamlined comets) or maybe something like mosquito fish. I will also have to consider this northern Wisconsin weather since I probably won't be able to winter over goldfish inside (smaller fish might be okay). The pond is pretty deep, so I might be able to just winter them in the pond as long as I keep a hole open in the ice. I'm leaning towards goldies, though, for ease of acquisition, and if I'm not sure that I can winter them, my LFS will either buy them back or winter them for me.

Anyway, I have a pump that I got last year for the one I thought I was going to use, which was a much bigger pond (200g range). So I should have plenty of water movement, but I'm not sure if I will need an additional filter. I'm planning on covering the intake of the pump with some filter sleeve material that I have leftover from a Mag 350 that isn't working.

I want to have something at the bottom so that it's not just black pond liner. I'm thinking just a shallow layer, but I'm not sure what to get. Playsand, pea gravel, what?

I'm also going to add plants. I've got duckweed in one of my tanks that I can add to the pond, and some salvinia minima will also go in there 'cause it's in the same tank. As to what else, I'm not sure. I'm toying with the idea of having all native Wisconsin plants, but I'd have to research what's available. And then I'd want to maybe do native livestock too.

I dunno for sure, but I am just too excited to not share right now.

[Lupin]

Stick to pea gravel unless you want to add MTS in your pond to help aerate the sand around. Sand is much more desirable if you plan to keep any bottom dwellers such as dojo loaches. Dojo loaches are tolerant of cold temperature and possibly as cold as 15 degrees Celsius. Why not stick to ping pong pearlscales as your preferred goldfish? How big can you get a tank with for wintering?

[bazil323]

Yeah, the temp would have to go lower. We're talking northern Wisconsin winters, which it's not unheard of to get 40 below Fahrenheit. But that's fairly unusual. I'd say that the average low would be 20 below Fahrenheit.

Hmm, I'll have to check out ping pong pearlscales. I know one of the LFSs carry pearlscales, and hubby loves them. I think they kinda look diseased, but if they're in a pond, it might be okay. That particular LFS has a great selection of fish, and they have many goldfish types.

I do have tons of MTS in my 75g community, so I could easily add those to the pond. I'll have to check for their temperature tolerances though.

Right now, I doubt that I could add another tank, and mine are all tropical tanks. I do have an extra 16g tall (never saw a tank like it; I think it's custom), which I might be able to sneak past hubby, but that's still way to small for a goldfish. That's why I might be able to winter over smaller fish like guppies or mosquito fish, but I do like goldfish. Oh, and if it were guppies or something that could stand to be in 78-80 degree temps, I could have them in my community 75g.

[bazil323]

Y'know, I think I could use a couple rubbermaid tubs, if they could withstand being filled for several months. I use one for water changes for my brackish tank, so I know they do bow out a bit. But then I also got a cheap one for that since it's only filled for a max of overnight.

I'm looking in to pond de-icers, and I'm not sure what to get. Anyone have a good brand to use?

I don't think I'd need a model that uses a lot of watts (thinking 100-300w would be okay?) since it's a pretty small pond, but I'm also not sure if I should keep the pump running through the winter.

[kyryah]

You can build a wooden support frame out of 2X4's for the Rubbermaid tubs, I have done it for aquatic turtles.

Kristina

[Lupin]

Good plan! If tanks are not an option, rubbermaid tubs or drums will work just fine for wintering. I'm crossing my fingers you try goldfish and able to get backup tubs for the wintering.:)

[bazil323]

Okay, I'm leaning towards getting a deicer and trying them outside this year. I'm thinking a 200w would be good, but depending on what's available round here/prices I might go to a 300w. It's a good thing I've got all summer to think about it, lol. I'll probably change my mind 1000 times in the next few months.

I'm leaning towards regular fantails or pearlscales. Could I get 1 of each or would the fantail outcompete the pearlscale for food? Again, I still don't have the measurements for volume, but I would be surprised if it was less than 75 gallons. It's sort of an odd shape, also, so it might be closer to 90. But, I could be completely wrong, and it's 50.

[Lupin]

Okay, I'm leaning towards getting a deicer and trying them outside this year. I'm thinking a 200w would be good, but depending on what's available round here/prices I might go to a 300w. It's a good thing I've got all summer to think about it, lol. I'll probably change my mind 1000 times in the next few months.

I'm leaning towards regular fantails or pearlscales. Could I get 1 of each or would the fantail outcompete the pearlscale for food? Again, I still don't have the measurements for volume, but I would be surprised if it was less than 75 gallons. It's sort of an odd shape, also, so it might be closer to 90. But, I could be completely wrong, and it's 50.
The fantails are quick eaters. I'd keep pearlscales with celestials and demekins rather.

[dixienut]

have had comets in my horses rubber maid tub 75gallon and over wintered them once and they were fine but you have to keep the ice broke,..
a heater will keep the tank warm and the will not hibernate and have to feed every day like summer, and with winter the bacteria will not survive, unless the tub is buried in the ground,.. mine wasn't but i had to add warmer water to the tank to keep the middle of the tank water from freezing,..
they died last summer not sure why,.. i think something foreign got in the water,.. but when they weren't in there the tub dose freeze all the way thru, with only a pocket of water about a gallon didn't freeze and I'm in pa near Pittsburgh, not as cold as you,..

[bazil323]

Well, I wouldn't get a heater that would keep it all from freezing. I would just get a deicer which would keep a 12-inch or so hole open.

[dixienut]

Well, I wouldn't get a heater that would keep it all from freezing. I would just get a deicer which would keep a 12-inch or so hole open.


will it be in ground? if not it will be frozen from all sides and a wee bit in the complete middle that might stay thawed,..
you would still have to have a chesil and a sledge hammer to break the ice away from the fish and add more water to it every day if not more,.. but i did this anyway for my horses to drink,.. but if you just have fish in there it wont work,.. unless you do,.. also the only thing that will live in there are koi and commets,. the fancies are not cold tollerent,.. and will die,.
unless they have a deep water to survive

[Blown 346]

Even in the ground it will completly freeze over unless it is deeper than 24 inches.

I drain my pond each year due to the freezing. At the end of winter from all the snow and melting and freezing etc, my pond is full and is solid. It is 24 inches deep, and 300 gallons.

For a bottom to help retract sunlight, Mexican River Rock is a perfect size and coloration. It is bigger then pea gravel, looks better more natural, and is easier to clean. I just use my Normal Aquarium Siphon and go to town.

[Blown 346]

Here is a good article on how to keep a pond over winter and alot of things you dont think about.

http://www.skippysstuff.com/wintrtip.htm

[bazil323]

Thanks for the link! Yes, it will be in ground. The more I think about it and the more you guys post about it, the less smart it seems to winter them over in the pond. Although, the more I research, the more I want to get some flexible liner and make the fish pond out of that so that I can get a nice big, deep pond. Then I'd use this smaller one for plants and maybe have guppies in the summer, taking them in once it's too cool. But, I don't know. Maybe I should actually put this one in the ground first, lol.

[kyryah]

I would go with a pond liner if you are going to overwinter.

I have had the best success with ponds that have an area to regulate temperature, both winter and summer. (I am from Michigan, so our weather is very similar.)

What you need to do is dig an area that is two feet deeper than the rest of the pond, right in the center.

So, if your pond is 2 ft deep, it would look like this

http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll63/kyryah/nonsense%20for%20whatever%20reason/pondiilus.jpg

This keeps it from getting too hot in the summer, and from getting too cold in the winter.

Kristina

[bazil323]

Interesting, I'll have to keep that in mind.

Looks like I've won some plants on Aquabid for the pond. Why do I keep bidding on stuff that I'm not sure if I can use yet? :headshake2:

Anyway, I'll be getting 3 water hyacinth, 3 water poppy, 3 variegated flag iris, as well as 1 night blooming water lily. With the duckweed that I already have in my tank with some salvinia minima, that should about do it for that pond. Now I just have to decide where to put it, lol. Hopefully, everything comes next week so that I've got time to install the liner. And hopefully hubby helps me dig it out.

[bazil323]

I did a rough measurement of the depth. The shallow shelf for plants is about 12" deep, and the main part is roughly 20". That confirms that no fish will be wintering over in this pond. I didn't physically measure the width or length of the pond, so I'll double check the depths when I do that.

[bazil323]

Okay, these measurements are on the conservative side, so the # gallons calculated from this will be a little bit less than it actually is. I like to underestimate the # of gallons so that I don't overstock. Anyway, the majority of the pond is 19 inches. The 2 shelves are 10 inches deep, and they are pretty small shelves, both at same end. The width across them (all the way across the pond) is the widest part of the pond. That measured about 35 inches. The majority of the pond is about 22 inches wide. I forget the length of the pond, but I want to say 37 inches for some reason.

That should be roughly 82 gallons, so I figure with the underestimation actual would be closer to 85.

Btw, I got my night blooming lily a couple days ago. I planted it in a pot and placed that within a 5g bucket until I can put it in the pond.