View Full Version : Black Kuhlis
Wycco
05-13-2009, 11:26 AM
Are black Kuhlis the same thing as regular Kuhlis only... black?
After looking around all the stores in the area for Kuhlis and finding NONE- I asked my LFS if they ever get Kuhlis and he answered "I can, but I don't because the only kind I can get these days are black Kuhlis and I don't like them."
He said he'd order some black Kuhlis in for next week- I wanted to make sure that they ARE the same species just a different varient.
I assume they grow the same size- same temperament- same fish as the striped Kuhlis.
Why are the striped Kuhlis so hard to find now? Last time I was keeping fish (a decade or two ago) they seemed the most common Loach around.
Hebily
05-13-2009, 11:40 AM
I don't know, but they are awesome! I have heard that the blacks can be more aggressive. I have only heard that from one source, so it could have just been THOSE blacks.
paperdragon
05-13-2009, 11:47 AM
Not the same species. The stripey ones are usually pangio kuhli, and the black ones are typically pangio oblonga. Care requirements and size are about the same though.
Oddly enough, the Ben Franklin craft store in my town seems to be one of the few places that still sells pangio kuhlis.
Wycco
05-13-2009, 11:57 AM
After asking here I started googling...
Looks like there are at least three species all sold as "Black Kuhlis"- as you said above oblongata, java loach, or myses (sp?) I'll need to ask the LFS if he can find out the species for me.
From my research:
Sounds like some black Kuhlis will attack small snails "yeah! get them bladders" if hungry enough. Banded Kuhlis will rarely show interest in snails.
Black Kuhlis are more active than the regular banded. They may not tolerate warmer temps as well- but are generally more hardy. They're all wild caught (shame) - none are bred commercially.
Typically grow about the same size though.
So the above are from people talking about black Kuhlis... but WHICH SPECIES? LOL
Shrimp safe? Regular Kuhlis supposedly are- but are Black Kuhlis shrimp safe?
Wycco
05-13-2009, 12:01 PM
Oddly enough, the Ben Franklin craft store in my town seems to be one of the few places that still sells pangio kuhlis.
Hmmm... where in North Carolina are you? How far would Ben Franklin's craft store be from Columbia, SC?
I'm in NC every once in a while. Charlotte or Durham- I could check in on them if they're not too far next time I'm in NC.
clb2196
05-13-2009, 12:44 PM
Wait.... Ben Franklin's sells fish?!?
Hebily
05-13-2009, 1:17 PM
I've read that it is possible - but barely - to breed kuhli's in aquaria. It seems that noone is actually sure how to get them to. It just happens sometimes.
paperdragon
05-13-2009, 1:35 PM
Hmmm... where in North Carolina are you? How far would Ben Franklin's craft store be from Columbia, SC?
I'm in NC every once in a while. Charlotte or Durham- I could check in on them if they're not too far next time I'm in NC.
I'm about an hour north of charlotte. Looking at google's directions, about 2.5 hours from Columbia taking 77 to 40. If you're still interested I can pm you the exact location. They don't always have the kuhlis, but they had them once a few months ago and then last time I was there which was two weeks ago.
clb2196: Some do, some don't. Mine has a very small selection, but I've had good luck with the goldies I got there. The tanks are individually filtered and the store owner gets his stock from a place that's only about an hour drive away.
Well- the Kuhlis were going to be the last thing I add since they are perhaps the most sensitive of the fish I'm after. (fishless cycled- but adding fish gradually none-the-less).
So I'm probably 3 weeks off buying them... that said if I stumble across any locally I may have to pounce due to their inavailability.
I'm a little North of Columbia- so it's probably 2 hrs for me. I can find excuses to go to Charlotte- but another hour north of there... 1 hr extra each way- maybe not.
I'll just keep my eyes open. Black Kuhlis may work for me though- from the sounds of things they're cheaper too. Shame you're not in Charlotte or Durham- I have excuses to go there.
jbradt
05-13-2009, 2:30 PM
From my understanding, pangio oblonga and pangio javanicus (java loaches) are different names for the same species. I think javanicus is an out-dated name, but I'm not sure about that part. My experience with them is that they are indeed more active than pangio kuhli. In fact, mine were playing all the time; even when the lights were on. I never saw mine go after a snail. Good luck with them!
From my understanding, pangio oblonga and pangio javanicus (java loaches) are different names for the same species. I think javanicus is an out-dated name, but I'm not sure about that part. My experience with them is that they are indeed more active than pangio kuhli. In fact, mine were playing all the time; even when the lights were on. I never saw mine go after a snail. Good luck with them!
You're right. P. javanicus is outdated. Both names apply to one and the same species. I have never seen these and any other kuhli species go for snails. They should be safe with apple snails if you think bladders are not.
I wouldn't care if they ate the odd snail... I'd like some apples but don't have any yet (and wouldn't if I got loaches and they had a taste for snails).
I might give them a try... I love Kuhlis- but these might be a good substitute- especially if they are more active.
I do not believe kuhlis eat snails despite some people claiming they do. Dead or dying snails, maybe but healthy snails, no. I have never observed kuhlis to eat snails at all.
Hebily
05-13-2009, 9:21 PM
Mine don't even eat squished snail corpses.
I'll head back to the store when they get them in and take a look at them... sounds like a worthwhile addition.
Researched different Pangios a little last night- found it interesting that some lay their eggs on floating plants- considering primarily they are known as bottom feeders.
Anyhow back to snails... I don't mind if they eat snails or not... obviously I won't keep ornamental snails if they do- OR I'll move ornamentals to a new aquarium (I'd love an excuse to get another) ;)
I certainly don't expect them to... since most people in the know say they won't.
The only thing that worries me is- will they attack shrimp. Kuhlis have been judged safe with Shrimp. I found a couple of people that have kept black Kuhlis with shrimp and had no fatalities... but not many.
Obviously young shrimp may get eaten no-matter who I put in with them- best I can do is lots of dense plants and tonnes of hiding spots.
They sound fun- look fun... not sure why the LFS doesn't like the black Kuhlis.
Hebily
05-14-2009, 9:18 AM
I would think that a shrimp could hold it's own with a kuhli. They have small mouths, and shrimp have claws.
clb2196
05-17-2009, 8:54 AM
Sorry to resurrect this, but I've been having a hard time finding kuhlis, too. I went to Uncle Ned's in Millis because people here said they sometimes get them, and they only had a few blacks. He said they would probably have some within the month, though. But he said that he's heard a lot of places have stopped stocking kuhlis because they can't catch them. :( Which, I get that they're tough to catch, but that kinda sucks. They keep theirs in a bare bottom with some caves and he said it wasn't a problem.
Wycco
05-17-2009, 11:24 AM
Was on the other side of town yesterday with my son so stopped off at the "other side of town" petsmart and they had the "black" Kuhlis $1.99. Said they ALWAYS have some.
You could call around all your nearby Petsmarts in your city and neighbouring cities...
Unfortunately still have not seen any banded Kuhlis anywhere.