View Full Version : Confused About temp
So I am looking at different types of coral that i could put in my 24 gallon aquapod and now I am concerned that I am going to cook all of my coral. The temp range seems to max out at 80 degrees f on each coral. My tank is consistantly over 81 degrees (even with my addition of a second fan in the hood).
I guess a chiller would work, but I don't want to have to drill a hole in the glass of the tank (with my luck I would screw it up). I don't see why the company wouldn't take the temp into consideration when designing the nano tank.
There are many nano chillers out there, even on sale right now at MarineDepot (http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_AquariumPage~PageAlias~aquarium_marine_depot_sp ecials_clearance.html). You don't really have to drill the tank to install a chiller.
It is tough keeping temps down in good range, but for many years I ran in the 81-82 range every day without any ill effects.. It is only when you reach 84 that you start to see bad things happen. Most people don't like to run at 82 because it is so close to the upper limits but it won't hurt anything if that is as hot as it gets. I used the "frozen water bottle" (40 frozen water bottles in the freezer, putting in 8 at a time would drop the temp 1.5 degrees in 15 minutes on my tank) method for many years up until a couple weeks ago I finally got a chiller and now my tank sits nicely at 77.7-78.5.
Looks like the frozen water bottles will be the way to go... I guess it wouldn't be that much of a hassle to swap them out a couple of times a day to refreeze. The flat liquor bottles would fit nicely in the back area and I coudl freeze up 1/2 dozen or so... then have my wife swap them out every now and again. Will have to work on this tonight and see how much it drops the temp. Thanks for the suggestion.
mcsassy
05-13-2009, 4:41 PM
Average reef temperature is 82. No sweat. (pun intended)
Amphiprion
05-13-2009, 5:39 PM
Average reef temperature is 82. No sweat. (pun intended)
Agreed. Beyond that, reefs that sport the most diversity in terms of coral species averaged around 84 F. I'd say that 79-84 is fine, with 82 being closer to optimal. I have always maintained my reef tanks at around this temperature, anyway.
Dang it.. why did I have 77f stuck in my head as the "average" reef temp? I guess I can raise my chiller temp a little higher.
Amphiprion
05-13-2009, 7:11 PM
Dang it.. why did I have 77f stuck in my head as the "average" reef temp? I guess I can raise my chiller temp a little higher.
I see lots of energy savings in your future...
hahah. Ace. admit it, you are an overachiever... if other folks can get theirs to 79 you will figure out a way to go to 77, lol. I still can't get over how cool your tank is...
Our reef tank runs between 80 - 83F, depending on the time of year / time of day. The only time I had any issues was when it hit 85F and stayed there for an entire day.
That is where I am at right now. I figure that the thermometer is not 100% accurate and with it reading somewhere near 84 degrees I have no confidence that my water is at teh right temp. Tried floating frozen soda bottles (20oz) water was melted within 20 minutes. So I think the chiller route is the only way for me to go.
Ace25
05-14-2009, 10:00 AM
Ya, bottles don't last long, that was the reason my freezer was full of them and my roommate never happy about it. Like I said, 8 bottles at a time in my sump lasted 15 minutes and dropped 1.5 degrees. Then the temp would quickly rise again, so on hot days I would have to switch out bottles every 20 minutes for hours.. hense the 40 frozen bottles. Definately got old after a while.. I did it for about a year on my new tank before I had to put a chiller on it. My house gets real hot during the summer and I did have a tank crash due to heat back in 2002 and learned my lesson after killing all my corals and my first potters angel.
Yep. Our house is newer and pretty modest. But, it is not all that well built and gets hotter than 19 year old las vegas stripper during the summer. If we try to cool it too much we run the electric bill through the roof and contribute to the untimely death of polar bears... I think in the long run a $300.00 chiller will be more cost effective than adding another $100/month in AC bills over the summer.
The strange thing is that even without the lights and 65 degrees outside, the tank still sits above 82. Could my pump be adding to the heat equation in any real significant way? I know that a maxijett uses less power, but haven't found the right one yet.
mcsassy
05-14-2009, 12:04 PM
You might have a faulty heater...look into that.
Ace25
05-14-2009, 12:57 PM
Yes, DO NOT rely on the markings on the heater to be correct. I have never found a heater yet that matched the water temp with what the heater was set at. Also, make sure you get a GOOD electronic temp probe. There are some decent ones for around $20 if you don't have one already. My "Tom Aquatics (http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_AquariumPage~PageAlias~thermometers_refractomet ers_hydrometers_tom_aquatics_oscar_enterprises_tem p_alert.html)" $20 one I got from MarineDepot about 5 years ago is good (just read reviews, not to favorable, but mine has worked great and it doesn't stop reading above 82 like it seems to indicate), although it is exactly 1 degree hotter than the true temp. I use 4 different probes to test temperature.. a digital meat thermometer, IR handheld sensor, temp probe on my Reefkeeper2 that actually controls my heater, and the Toms digital one. Never can be too safe when it comes to temps and always good to verify your readings are accurate.
Try changing out the pump to a maxijet 900
I have unplugged the heater just to see if that was causing the issue. I double check the thermometer (with an identical one so who knows...). I will look around for a maxijet. Could the Koralia be adding any heat? it is the nano version.
No, koralia nano takes what 2 or 3 watts? Definately not a source of heat. Ambient temp in the room and lighting are usually the biggest factors for heat unless your running very large pumps or powerheads.
Amphiprion
05-14-2009, 8:11 PM
With today's powerheads, most heating problems are due to poor ventilation, return/closed loop pumps, as well as ambient temps as Ace pointed out. My tank stays cool enough year round (in my climate even) that I need to run a heater to keep temps above 77 F.
Nope just the stock pump and the koralia. The ventilation on the hood is horrible. Barely open in the vents (I opened it up a bit more with the dremel and added another fan. Still it is over 82 right now. Will be going the chiller route for sure. Just have to make it another week.
Does the lid come off on those? Just wondering if you could unlatch the hood and put something like little pieces of wood, broken paint mixing sticks in the 4 corners diagnally then rest the hood on that so there is just a small gap around the top of the tank and canopy. Then you can put a house fan next to it blowing into it and it will really cool off the tank in a hurry. If you could get it higher, like 2" above with the fan blowing you wouldn't need a chiller with that lighting. Paint mixing stick was just an example. Most light fixtures come with legs to stand above the tank, so anything you can find that would be stable and work is good. I am thinking something like really dense thick foam pieces that will press into the corners to hold it steady would be good idea if you had something laying around like that.. but macgyver it.
Thanks Ace. It actually has legs that you can use to prop the llid open. SO I opened it up and cranked the ceiling fan and lowered AC to 77. Dropped the temp by three degrees in just an hour or so. So that will get us by. I still want a chiller so I don't have to worry about jerry riggin' things in the future (plus, I really would like to get teh SunPod...hahaha. I need me some clams in my 24 gallon money pit!!!!
In the product description for the Aquapod it says that the filter is such that it is a true skimmer and gets rid of the skim and bubbles... will what is the skim stuff. Cause I have it, even with teh skimmer. So here is what I did... I put one of the sponges back in and moved the weir up to where it is about 1/8 under the water. This way water is going in to the rez mid level as well as at the top (but the top is going in slower... hoping that will take care of the slick on the top of the water. It is clear btw and can only be seen from underneath (for example when you touch the water or food falls in).
Ace25
05-14-2009, 10:29 PM
The oil slick is DOCs, dissolved organic compounds (http://www.aquascapingworld.com/magazine/May08/Dissolved-Organic-Compounds-Explained.html) (or carbons, both terms acceptable). It is the oils and fish poo that is breaking down in the water. You can aim a powerhead towards the surface to break them up... notice in the picture of my 29G I have the K3 powerhead doing just that.
reefbumgm333
05-14-2009, 11:01 PM
Just ran into this while looking for t-5 stuff.
http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+20024+20401&pcatid=20401
Man, I got excited. I thought that was a chiller for under $100. But it is just the controller. Darn the luck. hahaha. Back to the auction block. Selling a bunch of stuff and hope to be placing a call to Marinedepot tomorrow. ANyone need a Gretsch 5120 hollowbody electric guitar?
mcsassy
05-15-2009, 1:13 AM
ANyone need a Gretsch 5120 hollowbody electric guitar?
So, that's a self portrait in your avatar I take it?
CichlidWrangler
05-15-2009, 1:22 AM
Mine sits at about 81 constantly
corals flourish with tap water
CichlidWrangler
05-15-2009, 1:23 AM
Man, I got excited. I thought that was a chiller for under $100. But it is just the controller. Darn the luck. hahaha. Back to the auction block. Selling a bunch of stuff and hope to be placing a call to Marinedepot tomorrow. ANyone need a Gretsch 5120 hollowbody electric guitar?
you know its incredibly easy to make a DIY chiller out of a mini-fridge and about 20 feet of clear tubing?... oh, and a pump
Mcsassy... yep that's me. I didn't take the picture though. My wife is a photographer and we took that picture for my band. ahahah. handsome fella ain't i, lol.
The thought of me making a chiller is scary. I was lucky to have not burned down the house making my DIY co2 thing.
UPDATE: I think I have solved the mystery of the high temps. Last night, while sulking in my constant lack of adequate immediate fundage, I noticed that my pump was not pushing water as much as I thought it should. Great, now I gots to buy a new pump. Took it out of the tank and took it apart. Put it back together and it woudl not work... did this three times before I realized that the impellar was not seating properly. Got that squared away, flow increased and oddly the temp in the tank went down.
I think my impellar was rubbing or binding somewhat, just enough to push water but still create an overload. It is just a theory but the temp last night after 2 hours was between 78-80. Whereas before it had been over 82. Still will probably buy a chiller, but thought that this may well be the issue.
reefbumgm333
05-15-2009, 9:30 AM
Man, I got excited. I thought that was a chiller for under $100. But it is just the controller. Darn the luck. hahaha. Back to the auction block. Selling a bunch of stuff and hope to be placing a call to Marinedepot tomorrow. ANyone need a Gretsch 5120 hollowbody electric guitar?
Oops, sorry man, I sent the wrong link. It was suppose to be a link to the 1/15 hp chiller that is on sale.
mcsassy
05-15-2009, 11:49 AM
Still will probably buy a chiller, but thought that this may well be the issue.
You DO realize that chillers create ambient heat and suck up a lot of energy, don't you? Plus the noise they make and the space they take up...you might want to take these into consideration before making the jump.
I figured that the gave off some heat, but it isn't going to go in the stand anyway (a bit too deep). As for noise it can't be louder than the two fans that run on the light hood all the time. I have also read that the particular chiller I am considering is very quite (it is the Aqua Euro 1/13). Would I prefer not to buy a chiller and spend that money on stuff for the inside of the tank... yep. But other than the very unattractive option of duct taping fans to teh outside of the nano tank I don't see any choice.
I have a 1/10th and if you put your hand in the back, ya, the air is warm, but when the rooms temp is already 85-90 that extra 1-2 degrees it may heat the room isn't noticable for me. :)
They sound like a mini refrigerator when they are on.. not what I myself consider excessively loud. I have one of those sitting directly behind me at my desk as work and the only time I know its on is when the compressor turns off and makes a clunking noise. You definately need to give a chiller room to breath, putting them in a stand, even if they do fit, is a terrible idea unleass your doing additional ducting.
I hadn't thought about circulation issue until this AM. I will put it outside of the stand. With the loud fans on the current hood, I can't imagine anyone would even notice the sound of teh chiller (these fans are loud).
When I add the Sunpod that will cut out the noise of the hood fans. so maybe it will balance out.
Amphiprion
05-15-2009, 3:05 PM
If your tank will have an open top, I'd hold off on the chiller until you can see what the temperature will actually do.
Even with metal halides? I thought they would really heat up the water.
Along those sames lines, on average, how much evaporation could I expect on a daily basis?
Guessing... 1/4-1/2 gallon a day w/ open top + MH combo.
GregAW
05-15-2009, 4:06 PM
I'm seeing a more rapid evaporation rate now that the weather it starting to heat up. I've got the frag tank sitting at 80*, so far I don't have too much heating problem but then I have the A/C set at 76*. Sorry Al Gore and EPA, I'm going to stay comfortable and my wife breathing!