new to shrimp

[rithunder916]

ok, so some of you might have seen my thread about a hex tank being built for a shrimp colony.
http://www.aquariacentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=187732&page=4 (http://www.aquariacentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=187732&page=4)
So it's done, and planted, I checked water params last night and everything was great with PH at 7.2 and everything else at 0.

ok so heres my questions:

first are the types of plants I have ok for shrimp? Do i need to add more plants? if so what types?

second, what types of shrimp should I start with. I know everyone here says red cherries, whcih I agree with, however I do want to add something esle eventually. I would love to have two different species of shrimp, the red cherries are pretty, and i would like something with either black or blue.

Any other suggestions are more than welcome so please ANY help would be great!


Mike

[Wycco]

Msjinxed is selling a blue/black shrimp... species is unknown but it is apparantly hardy and breeds readily.

I'm planning a mix of RCS and these "mystery" shrimp when my aquarium is ready- maybe some Amano or ghost shrimp too for the added variety. (truth be told- I need about a dozen more large aquariums to get EVERYTHING I want... but shrimp of some kind are a definate)


If you're after blue/black- there are several varieties of caridina which have those colours on them (as well as a blue neocaridina but that would breed to produce wild type with your reds if housed together).

Malaya shrimp, I believe, come in different colours- not bright colours- but blacks and greys and browns. That might satisfy your black shrimp niche.

[rithunder916]

Yea I'll have to look into what she has for sale. I want to start simple for now, so I'll just grab some red cherries, but soon after I want to add more color to the tank, so i might just have to look into those blue black mystery shrimp.


Thanks!

Mike

[Wycco]

BTW: petshrimp.com seems to be a very good website for shrimp information... I found myself spending a long time looking through that website over the last several weeks.

[Hebily]

I believe (don't quote me) that the red cherries and the 'blue-black mystery' are different color variants of the same dwarf shrimp as ghost shrimp.

[BandiCat]

planetinverts.com is also a great site for shrimp info. They have compatability charts for the different breeds of shrimp. Also, before you add any shrimp, are you sure that all of your tank parameters are at zero? If your tank is fully cycled it should have some nitrates in it.

Good luck!

[Wycco]

Ghost shrimp- are usually American Freshwater Grass shrimp- although other species are sold as the same name.

Red Cherries are Neocaridina - an Asian species.

Blue Black mystery is a bit of a mystery. In a PM Msjinxed says she suspects it is a caridina species although it can't be determined.

[Hebily]

Cool. Good to know. Do all shrimp eat pond snails?

[rithunder916]

Yea I just asked her about it too. I'll have to check again on the parameters tonight, but last time i checked everything was pretty low, I'll have to have someone check with me, since I have a hard time determining certain colors.

[Hebily]

lol. everyone has a hard time with those things... comparing the color of 5 mL of liquid to the color of a spot on a card is just difficult... you get used to it though...

[Wycco]

Cool. Good to know. Do all shrimp eat pond snails?


I don't think any of the dwarf shrimp eat pond snails.

The macros might- I haven't really looked into them much as they arn't compatible with what I'm getting.

Crayfish will- but there again, except for the dwarf ones they'll eat fish and shrimp too.

[Hebily]

I've heard many times that ghost shrimp will - and I believe it. I ordered some moss a while back. Put half in my main tank, with ghost shrimp. Put the other half in my QT. QT got INFESTED. I saw three in the main tank the day I saw the first one in the QT, and I haven't seen them sense. Nothing else in there (except, debatably, kuhli loaches) eats snails. I am going to put ghost shrimp in my QT after my angels are out (I think they eat the snails, but not very quickly) and see if they all go bye-bye to verify that it is because of the shrimp. (also, I can watch better to see if I can actually catch a ghost shrimp eating a snail.)

[Wycco]

lol. everyone has a hard time with those things... comparing the color of 5 mL of liquid to the color of a spot on a card is just difficult... you get used to it though...

The liquid test kits seem to be easier than the strips I started out with.

I still more often than not end up with a colour that is somewhat between two on the card. My wife is probably sick of me asking... "do you think this colour matches this one"...

... she can't complain though- she's installed herself as the colour guru in the house- she's always telling me my clothes clash- or that I've done something wrong dressing the kids! What's wrong with wearing stripes with checks anyway?

[Hebily]

LOL. Liquid test kits are definately easier to read than strips! More accurate, too.

I wish the test would be less about shades, and more about different colors... like the nitrite test ( I think ) starts out bright blue. If you have any nitrites, it turns a shade of red. It would be really cool if it turned green with more, and milky white with even more, and yellow with more than that....

[Wycco]

I've heard many times that ghost shrimp will - and I believe it. I ordered some moss a while back. Put half in my main tank, with ghost shrimp. Put the other half in my QT. QT got INFESTED. I saw three in the main tank the day I saw the first one in the QT, and I haven't seen them sense. Nothing else in there (except, debatably, kuhli loaches) eats snails. I am going to put ghost shrimp in my QT after my angels are out (I think they eat the snails, but not very quickly) and see if they all go bye-bye to verify that it is because of the shrimp. (also, I can watch better to see if I can actually catch a ghost shrimp eating a snail.)


Maybe they eat them... haven't read that. An alternative suggestion would be- snails reproduce due to excess food.

Both snails and shrimp can be cleaners that will eat some of the excess food. If the shrimp are eating all the left over food from the fish- there would be less for the snails so their population wouldn't grow as fast.

It's also possible the shrimp ate the snail eggs... or maybe just the very small snails... dunno intriguing.

[Hebily]

Yeah, I've thought about that, too... That's part of why I wanna watch...

[Wycco]

If you see any ghost shrimp eating snails let me know... that might effect my decision... I could do with something eating my bladder snails.

Although, at the same time, I just got a couple of red ramshorns on Friday that I wouldn't want eaten- and mid week last week I noticed I have a beautifull golden ramshorn in my aquarium that I previously had no idea I had (I only had the one little leopard that I knew of before then).

I know golden ramshorns are rarish- so I wouldn't want this one eaten by a 25cent ghost shrimp- I'm hoping he keeps his nice golden shine through adulthood.


I know most people say Kuhlis never eat snails- but when I've been scouring the internet for information on them I've come across several accounts by people claiming theirs did. Perhaps the Kuhli are more likely to be eating the pond snails than the shrimp?

Dunno... any empty shells?

[BandiCat]

I still more often than not end up with a colour that is somewhat between two on the card. My wife is probably sick of me asking... "do you think this colour matches this one"...


LOL, I literally just got done testing and I sat there for probably 3 minutes trying to figure out if there was ammonia in my tank. Is it yellowish green or greenish yellow...? o_O

[Hebily]

I haven't noticed empties in the main tank.... the kuhlis were in the QT when the snails were introduced!

[Hebily]

Hey, Thunder, Check this out.

http://www.aquariacentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=182374

[rithunder916]

Yea, it's even worse for me, I'm color blind to the upper and lower spectrum of red and green.....Yea loads of fun, so my mother is used to me asking "HEY MAA I need your EYES!, what color is this??"

alright so after another test:

ph = 7.6
nitrite = 0
nitrate = 0
ammonia = 0

I started the tank with sponges from my 55 gallon tank, and I have a few snails in there (frackin hitch hikers)

Thanks for that link! those are really nice cherries!


Mike

[Wycco]

That's odd... Nitrates shouldn't be 0.

When you add the ammonia during cycling- it gets converted to nitrite (once you have a population of bacteria) - then once you get another kind of bacteria present it changes to nitrate.

The only way nitrate gets removed is by plants or by water changes. Still if you have 60ppm nitrate and do a 50% water change... you'd STILL have 30ppm nitrate- so water changes don't eliminate all of it.

Unlikely plants are getting all of it.

I'd be suspicious one of your test kits wasn't working like it should.

[rithunder916]

yea I don't know, I do have filtered water and I'm running charcol in the tank, so I don't know, i'll have to keep eyes on it, and see how it goes, I might run off to the store here and pick up some more chemicals, but I just bought the kit like a month ago, so it should still be good.


thanks!

Mike

[Hebily]

charcoal won't pull nitrate, at least not alot of it. Are the snails really tiny? You might need to add another ammonia source. (extra fish food, or pure ammonia - make sure it's pure surfacants and detergents are bad, m'kay?)

It's also possible that small snails are adding ammonia, and cycle is working, and there is still not enough ates to show up cause the plants are using 'em. You could just try adding a couple shrimp, and watch params closely.

A good ammonia source: more/bigger snails...

[rithunder916]

Yea the only issue is that I hate frackin snails. I don't mind the larger pretty ones, but the pest things I HATE, maybe I'll have to stop by my local store and grab some more mts. Yes the snails are really small, and there's only a few of them, I'll see what i can do to get those readins to bump some!

Thanks all!

Mike

[Wycco]

How are you cycling? Are you actually adding ammonia or relying solely on the snails?

If the snails are living off algae alone they won't be adding much nitrogen to your system- they'll be primarily adding nitrogen that the algae itself has taken out.

[rithunder916]

Well since i can't find any ammonia around me anymore, I have been using flake foods, and water from one of my other tanks too cycle.


mike

[Wycco]

Yeah, finding ammonia can be tough- I went to 5 stores before I found the correct type. Supposedly the cheapier and budgetier the super market more likely they'll have it. I found my ammonia at a Food Lion.

If you're adding fish food I'd have expected something. Odd that everything is zero- I 'd have to suspect that one test isn't working- could it have expired?

Most LFS and chain stores do free water tests- perhaps you can take some of your water to them to test to see if they get the same.

[rithunder916]

Yea, I thought about that as I left for school last night, so i brough a sample to petco (on my way to class) and they said the same thing, ph 7.6, everything else 0. So when I got out of class, early as I expected, i ran to the store and picked up some more MTS (about 6) and i found a ghost shrimp that has come in on a shipment unexpectedly. after talking to the people there, I got all of it for free. I put a few shrimp pellets in for the shrimp (canablism) and the ghost shrimp lasted through the night. I'm at work now, so I'll check parameters when I get home.


MIke

[rithunder916]

what might be happening is that the nitrites are so low that they just are not regestering on the tests. I'll have to see if I can make them jump up some, and go from there.

mike

[Wycco]

The ghost shrimp will be a good indicator... if there is any ammonia or nitrites in the tank it will kill the little thing- if not you can be sure you are cycled...

Problem is that ghostie is not going to add much to your biolode by himself- so when you get fish you may have a mini cycle and one pale pink ghost shrimp that lies very motionless on the bottom of the tank! :(

[rithunder916]

Well I might be able to transfer over my one lone non pared up bolivian ram, but I'll check today to see if things are progressing.


Mike

[Hebily]

Much better to cycle without animals... pest snails can take it. Tough little *******. I believe that most ornamentals would be perfectly fine through a cycle also, but the shrimp will definately be a canary. I actually just found that out the other day. I've never had them in a tank that wasn't well established.. I thought they were just as hardy as pond snails.. Just give the snails lots of food.... you'll wind up with lots of snails... and lots of ammonia...

[rithunder916]

yea i don't like the sounds of lots of snails, I'll have to check the local stores and see if i can find some ammonia, the ghost shrimp was just a test to see if the water was livable.

Worse case i'll just through a much of food in there and let the snails have fun, then get myself an assissan or two to clean up the mess.


Thanks!

[Hebily]

I wouldn't do that if you have ornamentals that you like.

[rithunder916]

Nope, I have no snails that I like, I want to get some of the ornamentals eventually, but as of right now, all I have are MTS and ramshorns.


Mike

[Hebily]

Oh... for some reason I thought you said apples... lol... I misread.

[rithunder916]

lol no biggie! Worse case I'll just trap them. haha,

Mike

[Wycco]

I've been hunting for a fish that will eat bladder snails but not eat dwarf shrimp... unfortunately no such fish appears to exist.

Puffers, the larger mouthed loaches, goldfish...

... they'll eat snails- and some will cohabitate nicely with shrimp... until they discover that shrimp = tasty. If I could locate a community fish that will eat snails but not shrimp I would be very happy.

Assassins are the only safe bet- although on rare occasions even they have been known to catch shrimp... although how a snail can catch a shrimp boggles my mind.

[Hebily]

lol... they have some crazy cool spear kinda tentacle thing that paralyzes their pray... it's pretty wicked. and by wicked I mean cool

I'll make sure to let you know if I can actually catch a ghost shrimp eating a pond snail...

[rithunder916]

well there are about 10 ramshornes in the tank, and the ghost leaves them alone, HE does like their egg sacks though!

Mike

[rithunder916]

ok so this is getting annoying. I pulled params again last night when I got home from class, and still all reading the same. SO I'm going to drastic measures. I "fed" the tank about a cap full of cichlid pellets that my rams won't touch (picky little buggers) in hopes of creating enough food for the snails to mass re-produce, also I set a trap this morning for the rest of the ramshorns i have in my 29 gallon, which when I get home from work, I'll pull out of the tank and put into the hex! I WILL GET the Ammonia to jump!


Good news, the Ghost shrimp is loving life with all the extra food in there, He's a hungry little bugger and is constantly eating some peice of food, weither it's algae on the wood, or food particulates i put in there.


Mike

[Hebily]

I hardly ever see a ghost shrimp that is not either eating, or searching for food... but when they are not, they are playing games....

[rithunder916]

True! Will Ghost shrimp and RCS's get along?


Mike

[Wycco]

Well my tank completed cycle last night- so I did a quick water change and headed out to Petsmart and Superpets to get my first wave of fish. Mixed Danios, Cherry Barbs and whilst I was there figured I'd get some ghost shrimp to test out my "shrimp-worthiness" ahead of ordering some RCS and "mystery shrimp" in a week or two.

The Danios and Cherry Barbs immediately started playing and having fun. The ghost shrimp were elusive and hid.

This morning though I was amused to see a couple of ghost shrimp riding the bubbles... I know fish love doing that but never imagined little shrimp would. Cute little things... 3 of them arrived berried.


All dwarf shrimp species get along OK. Don't mix neocaridina with other neocaridina though as they can interbreed. Same with some caridinas. Macro shrimp will eat dwarf shrimp though.

I plan to have RCS, Mystery Shrimp, and ghost shrimp in mine. Ghost Shrimp are notorious for not being very hardy- so if mine don't make it I probably won't replace them. If they do well in the aquarium then I know I'm fine for the others.

[Hebily]

Once you get your ghost shrimp to last a while, they'll last forever... you will probably have a lot of die offs in the begining though... they are usually sold as feeders, and as such, are treated horribly.

[Wycco]

Yeah, these were at the far end where Superpets kept all their feeders... There were only about a dozen left.

I asked for 6... just to "test the water" so to speak- I may get more later. (I actually got 7- the girl accidentally put an extra one in but said she wouldn't charge me for it). 7 ghost shrimp in a planted 55 gallon with lots of hiding places and caves are hard to spot.

I'm hoping they'll live- but having been feeders to start off with- and left in a feeder tank for "who-knows how long"- debatable if they've been fed in that time- I may face a die off.

Still... if they can survive that, they should be able to survive anything I throw at them.

[rithunder916]

Awesome news! I'll have to check again when i get home, but if the params are still holding true, I think i'll order shrimp, and place a few in there at a time, since I have another tank that is up to store them.


THanks all!

Mike

Oh the combo will be RCS/mystery blue, with one lone ghost!

[Wycco]

Oh the combo will be RCS/mystery blue, with one lone ghost!

That's the same 3 species I'll have assuming my ghosts survive.

I'm considering Amano too... it depends on what else I get. Currently my eyes and wants are bigger than my tank.

[Hebily]

My wants are a bigger tank. When I first got my 50, it seemed so big. I was thinking, "I can put soooo many tetras in there... Cool!" Now I have pearl gourami, angels, bns... and I want a 300. I'm thinking, "I could put so many angels and pearls in there!" I'd probably wind up with a couple oscars. Lol.. I really do love angels, though... always have. So, I might actually have a large tank, with a bunch of angels..

[rithunder916]

Anyway, I got params, 7.6 ph, 5ppm nitrates, 0 nitrites, .25 ppm ammonia


So it looks like things will be coming along now!


MIke