Help...How can I convince them?

[Sawyer]

I have 6 common/comet goldfish that really need to be put in a pond soon but my parents don't want a pond in the yard (we already have a huge pond but its like a retention pond so I guess it doesn't count), especially my dad. He says he's cleaned out a pond before and it was hard and just from a few little fish it was really filthy everyday and even harder to clean than big pools. I really don't know what to do. I told him that ponds are easier to take care of than tanks and that rain does a lot of the work.. he didn't believe it. How can I convince them? Whats some pros to having a pond? My dad says goldfish will NOT survive outside in FL, that the water will get 90 degrees. which I really doubt is true for a 5 ft deep pond in the shade. He also think goldfish are coldwater fish, I'm pretty sure they're sub tropical. Coldwater is like trout. my mom thinks it'll be stupid, that birds will somehow get thru the netting over the pond, and doesn't want a hole in the yard.

So.. yeah, I'd like them to be put in the pond by the end of June but its going to be really difficult persuading my parents and getting a good filter/pond liner/netting for it. And even though I've tried researching it a lot I'm completely clueless about taking care of a pond (all the info I've found is for fancy ponds, mine is just going to be a approximately 6ft long, 4 ft wide, 5 ft deep hole with pond liner and netting over the top). Like how often to do WC's, whether I put dechlorinator in it, how to get out poop and other stuff, or do I even need to do that in a pond of this size? How will I get it cycled? Ugh, so much to consider.

[excuzzzeme]

Goldies are coldwater and will need cooler water than 86F. As far as convincing your parents to do what you want, it is better to respect their wishes. At some point you will leave home and they will be stuck with a hole in they yard they didn't want. In some places it will be required to modify the homeowner insurance as well to protect against indemnity.

Sorry to say, it's their property and they have the right to say "No".

Please respect their decicions.

[Sawyer]

uh... that doesn't help my goldies, or me. I care a lot more about my goldfish that my parent's ignorant "wishes". They don't know anything about ponds, they're just assuming it'll be difficult to take care of. The goldfish HAVE to go in a pond, so its not like because they don't want a pond that I can just leave them in a tank. So no, I'm not going to respect their "wishes". And when I move out, I wouldn't leave my goldfish behind. If they wanted they could fill the pond in then.

Goldfish are sub tropical, not coldwater. Like I said, with the pond in the shade and it being 5 ft deep, surely it shouldn't get too hot.

[Sawyer]

Can anyone answer these questions?
And even though I've tried researching it a lot I'm completely clueless about taking care of a pond (all the info I've found is for fancy ponds, mine is just going to be a approximately 6ft long, 4 ft wide, 5 ft deep hole with pond liner and netting over the top). Like how often to do WC's, whether I put dechlorinator in it, how to get out poop and other stuff, or do I even need to do that in a pond of this size? How will I get it cycled?

[LeahK]

Goldfish are classified as coldwater, at least according to wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coldwater_fish

They are, after all, carp. However, in the wild, the original carp were found in subtropical and even tropical regions (partly through human introduction).

I wish I could help answer your other questions! Other people in the pond forum should be able to give you some info. I bet if you just google "pond care" you can get a basic idea of how ponds work.

[Sawyer]

I've tried that, but its all fancy pond stuff for people who have waterfalls and buy preformed ponds. On how to clean out the pond they talk about these expensive vacuums to get debris out and all that just makes it seem even more complicated so I gave up trying to read pond articles.

[dixienut]

i got a nice vac from wal mart ,.. its for pools you hook it up to garden hose and water makes suction and flows thru a bag to catch mulm and leaves works well,.. but fine sweep thru but regular filter or large sponge air driven filter takes care of that

[Sawyer]

How much was it and Will I definitely need one? There won't be anything to vacuum up besides poop since I'm going to have netting over it.. but I suppose the poop will eventually need to be gotten out?


Do filters have built in pumps, or do I have to separately buy a pump? And I do definitely need a filter, right? I've heard of some people not using filters for their turtle ponds, and turtles are possibly even messier than goldfish.

[7itanium]

you will need to do water changes in a pond just as you would in an aquarium

you are also going to need some sort of filter to harbor bio-media just like in an aquarium

ponds are a royal pain to clean.. I have one.. but they can be worth it as well

have you told them that if they dont dig a pond the alternative is letting you have a 400g tank? lol

that might help he argument

[Sawyer]

Yeah.. they just don't seem to understand how much room goldfish need. I told them how they get 12+ inches big but at first they believed the whole "they only grow to how big the tank is". It took over a month to get them to understand that their internal organs continue growing even if their body doesn't. Now that they know that I think my dad just plain doesn't care about them because he's so determined that ponds are hard to clean.. when he's not even the one that would be cleaning it or having anything to do with it. And its not even about not wanting a hole in the yard despite what my mom said, considering my brother and I dug at huge hole years ago and never buried it. I don't know what their problem is.

I could always dig the hole in like a day before they noticed (they wouldn't make me fill it in), the hard part is getting the filter/netting/liner. And figuring out where the pond should be. If I don't have to be overly careful about where the sun won't hit it too much, I could make the hole my brother and I dug bigger (its 6 ft deep, but currently isn't very long or wide). That spot probably is the best place to put it anyway.

[7itanium]

considering my brother and I dug at huge hole years ago and never buried it.



fill it with water! lol

yeah I know the feeling... I used to think my parents were very strange in there thinking... now I have my own kid and some of the stuff he does makes me wanna tear my hair out

[Lupin]

You know for 6 comets, it's either a pond or a 180g tank. Do you have pictures of your fish to confirm if they are comets, common goldfish or a mix of both? Try a pond with dimensions of 6 feet, 2.5 feet and at least 3 feet deep. If possible, try to use some terrestrial plants for shade. A 90 degrees weather, the top strata would have a temperature of at least 84-86 degrees while the bottom would be at least 78-80.

For a filtration system, get powerful submersible pumps and a large bucket as your filter. Connect the PVC pipes similar to tubings. There's a DIY of it around the websites or look up "overhead filter". A lot of Asians use this similar system in their tanks and ponds. The only downside is they are clearly visible above the pond and can clash with the natural looks of the pond if one aims to make it look like a natural waterhole. At least, this system doesn't clog easily but check your filter input flow regularly in case some muck stuck to the impellers and magnet.

As far as the goldfish classified as "subtropical", subtropical applies to temperature tolerance ranging from 70-78 degrees Fahrenheit. Goldfish prefer temperature no higher than 76 degrees on a long term basis. Comets, shubunkins and common goldfish are more tolerant to stiffly cold temperature compared to fancy ones provided your pond is at least 3 feet deep to prevent the water from freezing completely which could potentially kill the fish. Perhaps "temperate" may be a better term although "coldwater" has been the norm and thus, generic term.

[Sawyer]

lol we have filled it with water before (to make it easier to dig, but it just ended up being too muddy to dig in until it dried :P ).

Since the hole that's already dug is already about 4ft long, 4ft wide, and 6 ft deep, I think I'll keep it like that but make it 2 ft longer. That's about 1, 167 gallons, so I could house a lot more than 6 commons/comets in there. Later on after my goldfish are already in the pond I'll probably adopt some shubs/comets/commons or a koi if its large enough for a koi.

It barely ever gets below freezing here, so it won't freeze and I have no idea how to make a filter myself so I'll have to buy/find one. Yeah, I have pics of two of them, they're in this thread http://www.aquariacentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=193158. The other 4 I'll get a pic of tomorrow.

I don't feel as stressed now about this now that I know where the pond will be, that its practically already dug, and that maybe if I post an ad on craigslist I can find some supplies. I think later I'll bring my goldfish out to show my parents and let them interact with them and feed them. Maybe they'll care more about their health if they see them, I don't think they ever have before.

[Sawyer]

I just went and measured the hole and it's actually 4.5 feet long (which I'll make 6 ft long), 5 ft wide, and at least 6.5 ft deep, maybe a little more (I didn't measure the deepness because there's boards covering the hole and I didn't want to take those off). So that's 1,459 gallons! :D I knew this hole would one day be useful.

As my brother and I dug the hole we piled all the sand up above the hole and that made a small mountain (I'll post a pic of it later so you can see what I'm talking about) I was thinking about getting rid of the "mountain" in case it somehow caved in but I realized one day it might be possible to make a waterfall with. For now though, the "mountain" makes the hole soon-to-be-pond look pretty with all the vines growing on it. but when it rains mud might run off into the pond..

[Lupin]

It does look like you have a mix of comets and common goldfish. Do you have pics of the hole? I have trouble picturing out what is happening.

[Deanthoreu]

uh... that doesn't help my goldies, or me. I care a lot more about my goldfish that my parent's ignorant "wishes". They don't know anything about ponds, they're just assuming it'll be difficult to take care of. The goldfish HAVE to go in a pond, so its not like because they don't want a pond that I can just leave them in a tank. So no, I'm not going to respect their "wishes". And when I move out, I wouldn't leave my goldfish behind. If they wanted they could fill the pond in then.

Goldfish are sub tropical, not coldwater. Like I said, with the pond in the shade and it being 5 ft deep, surely it shouldn't get too hot.

Do your research on ponds, find out everything you need to know after you find out your dad is correct and 5 feet deep the water will get to 90 degrees in the shade, and you have calculated in a cooling system...figured out the costs, even the monthly maintenance.and electricity bill increase.....written it all out..and sketeched out what it will look like..and have your own money that mom and dad did not give you, then go to them with a plan, with the money, and present to them as a responsibile young adult...and they just might say yes.


If they say no perhaps it is because they remember the hampster you said you would take care of, they see the bedroom you never clean, they see the missing spoons and forks and bowls and dishes ending up in the garbage instead of the sink cause when you clean your room thats is where it goes. Perhaps they are saying no because, this si the 200th thing you have demanded in the past 6 months. Perhaps your parents are saying no because they are tired, they are fearful of the added expenses during these economic times that may cause job layoffs, higher electric prices, higher food prices, and you dont seem to have a single concern aobut the fact that living expenses have nearly doubled in 2 years...


The key is no whining, stomping your feet, bickering, pleading or the air of entitlement....that will just get you a good swift kick in the....... out the door earlier than planned (at least in my house it does).

[Sawyer]

Yeah, I did do research on them before I got them. Like I said, we already have a huge pond (it was there when we moved here) and I had planned to put them in there. My parents were fine with that. Then after I got them I told them I was going to put them in the pond when they were large enough (when I got them they were very tiny) and they were like "no, kids might sneak into our yard and fish, birds will get them, etc'. Even my siblings thought that was the stupidest idea ever. So then I decided they were right and decided to build a pond and have netting over it so nothing could get them. My mom was fine with that and still is pretty much. She isn't arguing with me about it like my dad, she's just like indifferent about it. And they would rather I make a giant pond than give them away I'm sure. Deep down they probably do like them, since they didn't want me putting them in our current pond.

I am paying for it with my own money. Which is why I need to find everything for free/cheap because I only have like $200 and $100 of that has to go to my rabbits being neutered.

Nah, none of that is why they don't want me to have a pond. I don't do any of those things, they only really get mad about how I stay up too late and how I leave my pets things laying around sometimes.

I wasn't calling them stupid, I meant ignorant like lack of information on the subject of ponds, or fish in general really. Every few days we have the same argument about how you hardly ever need to do water changes on tanks, that a filter cleans the water for you. And when I try to explain why you still need to do water changes at least weekly my dad says he's owned fish and he knows more than I do. And he thinks that just because 5+ years ago he cleaned a pond that he knows everything about them.

Lupin, yeah later today I'll post a pic of the hole. The two goldfish in that picture I thought were two commons. I think the other 4 are 2 commons and 2 comets. The ones I think are comets are white and red and their tails seem to be shaped different. I'll get pics of them later.

[Reframer]

This is an interesting thread! Well, all I can suggest is this: if you want the pond, then make sure you build it, pay for the costs, maintain it, and fill it in when you leave home... all 100%! Go and make a contract that states these stipulations and then have your parents look it over and all sign it. Make sure you also state what will happen if you don't follow through with your obligations (parents love that stuff).

Good luck, remember that things are generally harder than what you expect many times.

[PallasAthena]

You really need to respect your parents wishes here. Not only will the pond be a heck of a lot of work, but it will also end up costing your parents quite a lot of money. Unless you were planning on chipping in to pay the water bill and electric bill, which I doubt you can afford.

As a parent here are my thoughts: If my child were mature enough to draw up a formal proposal (that outlined the specific plans, their cost, contingency plans for when things went wrong, CONCRETE plan for when they moved to college that did NOT involve me filling in the pond, etc), demonstrated that they had done a large amount of research on the subject which would include but not be limited to taking the time to read and understand a variety of articles, and demonstrated how they would cover the additional cost by aquiring a job and budgeting/saving appropriately for the project (as outlined in the proposal), I might think that he or she would be ready to think about it. We'd probably work out some sort of contract and a plan that included clauses for if he or she failed to uphold his or her end of the bargain.

If my child simply dug a hole, they'd be in seriously deep doo-doo. We're talking grounding, no car, no phone, no TV, hard work in the yard, etc as well as covering the cost of resodding the grassin that area! It would be some serious you-know-what.

[Sawyer]

And...thread is officially derailed.

I'm sorry you guys feel this way.. but honestly, you don't know me or my parents. I think you're over reacting a little...The hole we dug was probably 4 years ago and my parents thought it was awesome. My brother and I used to sit down there in the summer because it was so cool down there. I'm definitely not filling it in, I'm making it a little bigger and using it for my goldfish. Yes, of course I'm going to take care of the pond myself. I take care of all my animals myself.

This is stressful enough without making it seem complicated. And my parents would believe that I'm going to maintain the pond because they already think I do way too many WC's on my tanks. They're not concerned that I won't take care of it. I think they're concerned about the goldfish. My mom hates outdoor animals because she thinks something might happen to them. That was the first thing she said when I told her about the pond "I thought we decided not to have anymore outdoor pets?"


If my child were mature enough to draw up a formal proposal (that outlined the specific plans, their cost, contingency plans for when things went wrong, CONCRETE plan for when they moved to college that did NOT involve me filling in the pond, etc), demonstrated that they had done a large amount of research on the subject which would include but not be limited to taking the time to read and understand a variety of articles, and demonstrated how they would cover the additional cost by aquiring a job and budgeting/saving appropriately for the project (as outlined in the proposal), I might think that he or she would be ready to think about it. We'd probably work out some sort of contract and a plan that included clauses for if he or she failed to uphold his or her end of the bargain.


That usually doesn't work, but I think I'll email a short thing about the pond to my dad. the more complex I make it sound to them, the less inclined they're going to be to agree. If I just say "It'll be really simple and cheap. I just need pond liner, netting, and a filter. I might even be able to find those on craigslist and I've found netting for only $8 that blends in with the water so you can still easily see the fish. And the hole is nearly finished anyways, we might as well use it hole for something. Maybe that's what this hole has been meant for. And My goldies will be really happy in this pond and we can even make it look pretty with rocks and plants around it and we can have plants growing in the pond like water lily." etc, etc. But before I got all that out I'd probably be interrupted.

How does the filter work? I mean, will it be electrical? So I'd need to plug it into a wall?

[Lupin]

How does the filter work? I mean, will it be electrical? So I'd need to plug it into a wall?
It involves submersible pumps. You'd have to find some long extension cords and make sure the cords are not to be chewed by rats, raccoons, etc.

Folks, let's just respect the situation. We are not ones to dictate the terms and we can only suggest or share what happens in this situation. This is a subjective topic beyond our scopes.;)

[Sawyer]

Ok, I have extension cords.. would I need a submersible pump, or does the filter have a built in submersible pump?

[Sawyer]

Also, how often should I do water changes in a 1,459 gallon pond with 4 commons and 2 comets (if that really is what they are. And eventually I'll get them some more "friends", but for awhile it'll only be them)? Like should it be done weekly and if so how many gallons do i take out weekly? And the filters I've seen will say something like "1,000 GPH" and since the pond will be more than 1,000 gallons, do I get the next filter up (let's say the next one up is 5,000 an hour) or would that be too much?

[Kashta]

The OP is asking for help, our advice, and some specific information.... not for insults. Replies that are worded in an offending manner will be removed, so please consider your tone and word choice when posting your comments.

[bluekrissyspike]

Folks, let's just respect the situation. We are not ones to dictate the terms and we can only suggest or share what happens in this situation. This is a subjective topic beyond our scopes.;)

sometimes the best advise you can give someone is not what they want to hear. that doesn't mean you shouldn't try.

to the op... do some research

read and read until you understand. if you can't understand the directions, you aren't going to be able to do the project. you need to know the best ways to do every step of the set up, how most ponds are planned and why they use different strategies. you need to find out where the best place to put the pond is, not only based on where there is a hole. have you thought about slope? high and low points in the yard? is the yard completely fenced in? are you going to plant? do you know where all the wires and pipes are in your yard before you dig? where will you find a pond liner that large? how will you get it home and set it up by yourself? it's gonna be heavy.. you need to get the ground ready for the pond, it's more than just digging a hole, throwing in a liner and adding water. are you going to use gravel for the bacteria to live on to help break down waste. what are the costs on that? how will you get it home? it will be heavy, not to mention expensive. there are probably a few hundred more questions you have never thought of.

[excuzzzeme]

You don't do water changes on a pond. You need to do the research as you have been told. A pump will cost about $200-$400. The electrical cost on it will likely be around $50.00 a month or more. The filtration unit will run $300+ media which will need to be changed monthly. You will also need plants to aid in the water chemistry. A GFCI to prevent an electrical short that could back feed to the house and burn it down needs to be used. A common extension cord is not adequate for the load it will carry or the distance needed. It needs to be a 12/3 or greater depending on the amperage needs of the pump. Add in some piping/hoses to and from the pump.

No, planning a pond is not "quick, easy, or cheap". It is more than just digging a hole and filling it with water. You will also need a pond liner that will run about $200+/-, you might be able to get if for less.

There is no other choice than to research all the pond's requirements. Having a pond means dedicated work and maintenance. You cannot compare tank maintenance to pond maintenance. They are completely different.

$100 is not going to cover your expenses. $1000 will get you closer to your dream of a pond. You will also need to research the pond water chemistry and how to cultivate and maintain healthy bacteria in it.

If your fish mean as much to you as you claim, you will want to do right by them and learn everything you can about ponds for their best health.

[leocom2000]

OK, here is my advice: Just help your parents, please!!!

[Sawyer]

No, I'm not using gravel. I read that's its better not to because it's easier to clean the pond that way. I might have stones and "caves" like pots for the fish though. Not in the beginning though, I just want to hurry and put them in the pond before they're even more stunted than they already are. So little things like that will have to wait. I'm just focusing on pond liner, netting, and filter since those are the only things you absolutely need from what I've read.

Where the hole is is probably the best place for it. Other places in the yard are too sunny or there's stuff planned for that spot already. This spot doesn't have roots/rocks, its right outside my bedroom window so I can look out at it, it's not too sunny. Yeah, the yard is fenced in. Why does that matter though? Yeah, eventually it'll be planted


if you can't understand the directions, you aren't going to be able to do the project.


But the directions don't pertain to my pond. All I need to do is finish the hole, lay some pond liner in it, lay netting over it, and hook up a filter.Surely the laying of pond liner and netting shouldn't be too hard. Won't I just need to smooth the pond liner out inside of the hole and make sure there aren't any wrinkles and then take the edges of it and pull it up just outside the hole and put some bricks/stones there to keep it in place? I'm not sure if that made sense but that's how I keep picturing it.

ANd then for the netting, lay it over the top of the hole and hold it done with bricks? Gettng those things and the setting up the filter will be the hardest part, since I don't understand stuff like that but my dad will probably help with that.

Excuzzzeme, That's why I need to get all that free/cheap. I've found great deals on craigslist before, hopefully I will again. You don't do water changes on a pond? How does the water get refreshed, besides from rain?

[leeser28]

Something else to consider, which was eluded to earlier, depending on where you live, you cannot just add another pond to the yard. When I lived in upstate New York there were restrictions on how many and what sized pond you could have because ponds do affect the surrounding ecology. Adding one could also need to be disclosed to your parents' homeowners insurance company causing an increase in premiums because it is another "hazard" if a child happens into your yard -- especially if it's 6+ feet deep. Please be sure to research this area as well as the nut and bolts of how to put in a pond.

[Sawyer]

A kid/animal couldn't drown it because its going to have this netting over it http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=5163+5312+15872&pcatid=15872

And we have a giant pond in our yard (like a retention pond) already. So I suppose there aren't any rules about ponds. But even if there were, like I said, I don't have any choice about the pond. My fish either need a pond or 180g, the biggest tank I'll ever be able to have is a 120.

And speaking of that netting, will that work? It says it fits 7ft x 10ft. The pond will be 6ft long, 5 ft wide.

[Lupin]

Caves and stones are not really necessary if all you want to house there are goldfish. They rarely use those as their refuge. They'll simply trap the dirt and pollute the water faster than you can imagine. If possible, try to get flowerpots, put gravel in them and add some lotus and aquatic plants there. Do make sure you get plants with sturdy foliage. The likes of Nymphaea sp., hornworts, Java ferns, etc can be considered. Some plants however have soft foliage and can be easily damaged by the goldfish.

The addition of plants help greatly with the water quality. Although green water has proven to be beneficial due to the available nutrients for the goldfish and thus improving their color greatly, it may be unsightly to some people who don't want a pool of green water. Without having to resort to UV system, you can use the fast growing plants such as Egeria densa and hornworts to outstrip the algae's chances of blooming quickly as they quickly consume the available nutrients. Plants help consume high levels of nitrate as well thus improving the water quality. You'll want to vacuum out the mulm weekly as the accummulated mulm can bind and develop anaerobic pockets that could potentially harm the fish.

Sawyer, could you please study the components of overhead filtration? A lot of Asians like me use this in aquaria and ponds. The concept is quite simple if you know how to set it up. You'll need submersible pumps, PVC piping, buckets/drums for filter and extension cords for the power supply to name a few.

[leeser28]

A kid/animal couldn't drown it because its going to have this netting over it http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=5163+5312+15872&pcatid=15872


And we have a giant pond in our yard (like a retention pond) already. So I suppose there aren't any rules about ponds. But even if there were, like I said, I don't have any choice about the pond. My fish either need a pond or 180g, the biggest tank I'll ever be able to have is a 120.

And speaking of that netting, will that work? It says it fits 7ft x 10ft. The pond will be 6ft long, 5 ft wide.

That netting would not keep a child from drowning. Did you ask your parents how they put their other pond in -- maybe there are rules and you just don't know. Furthermore, yes you do have a choice about the pond - and you have a responsibility, as does anyone who puts a water feature on their property to be sure that it is legal and safe.

[Jennie Beth]

Yes,that netting will work to keep leaves and sticks out of the pond, and might keep herons and racoons out for awhile, but it is not strong enough to hold the weight of a child that fell on to it. It can be ripped with your hands, especially after a season out in the weather, and even a 50 lb child would go right thru it.

Regarding rules about ponds, some areas have requirements that they be enclosed in 6' fencing, like a swimming pool, if they are more than a certain depth. No sense putting all that work and money into it just to have the city/county/home owners association make you remove it.

OOps, looks like I took too long typing and leeser28 beat me to it :)

[Sawyer]

They didn't put it in, whoever made the house did.
That pond is 10+ ft deep and way to long/wide for me to count and we;re not allowed to put a fence around the pond so there must not be any rules about it.

Lupin, alright I'm looking up on overhead filtration now. :)

Is a New Rio 2500 Powerhead Pump good for ponds? It says "The Rio+ 2500 pumps 782 GPH @ 0 Head and 375 gph@ 6' Max Head 10'. At 52 Watts" I saw one on craigslist so I was just wondering.

[Sawyer]

Lupin, here's pics of my other 4 goldies. http://www.flickr.com/photos/37531707@N07/3555596097/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/37531707@N07/3555598147/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/37531707@N07/3555594175/

The 2 red and white ones I've always assumed were comets and the other 2 were commons, but I've not very good at IDing. Are they really? And the 2 in the other pics I posted yesterday were commons?

Oh and ignore the other fish in the pics, I was gravel vacing my small fish's tank at the time (never had done it with small fish in the tank that I could suck up/hurt) so I was kind of scared to leave them in here so I transferred them to my goldfish tank while I did.. not a very good idea, I know, but when I adopted them they were all kept with the goldfish so I knew the goldies wouldn't hurt them and all my tanks stay at the same temp.

[Lupin]

Their tails dictate common goldfish to me. The angles from previous pics are confusing me. I think you should get a pic of each fish just to be sure. You can look up exoticgoldfish.net or Bristol Aquatics Society site for more information. I'll get back to you later if you haven't figured out yet those sites. Both sites are quite well detailed in describing comets and common goldfish.

[Sawyer]

After looking at their tails again and comparing them to the pics on Exotic Goldfish and it does look like their all have comet tails. The 2 largest seem to have the most flowing fins.

Yeah, I'll get pics of each individual one to be sure.

[Lupin]

Pictures just don't do them much justice hence I admitted my confusion because of the angles in which their pics were taken. Glad the Exoticgoldfish.net was very helpful.

[Sawyer]

Actually, now I"m confused because the 2 smallest (the light gold ones) don't have as flowing fins as the others. Maybe its just my imagination because they are small (like how the biggest 2 have the most flowing comet-looking tails) and so don't have as flowing fins as the other 4..but before I understood the difference between comets and commons, I always thought the looked different from the others.

[bluekrissyspike]

maybe you could use a rubbermaid stock tank? i have an indoor 'pond' built out of one of these, with a couple strong powerheads with aquaclear sponges spliced onto them. mine is 150g 2'x2'x6' and i got it for just over $200 but you can get one cheaper down by where you live. you can find them at any farm or rural supply store and they are light weight and easy to move around until you fill them. they come in different colours as well. mine is actually a different brand, i forget the name, but it is grey. the rubbermaid ones are black i beleive. they come up to 400 gallons.

[Desertponder]

bluekrissyspike took the words right out of my mouth.
All the time I'm reading through this thread I'm thinking, this kid needs to get a stock tank.
If you're parents are set on not wanting a pond in the yard then you need to get creative and find a happy medium that they can live with and works for your fish.
You could probably find a good used stock tank and not have to put out a great deal of money. I put a classified ad in a local paper last summer looking for large stock tanks reasonably priced and I ended up with 3 - 800 gallons tanks for FREE! I'm using two of them right now for my lilies.
You can make your own filter setups very easily and inexpensive.
Its a different approach to work on your parents. You may not like your parents attitude towards this but it is their house and their decision. When you have your own place some day you can have the pond you want.
For now, ask them for a stock tank set up and show that you can take care of it.:)

[Kashta]

Sounds like an excellent suggestion. I'd definitely look into that myself if I had a yard to set up a pond of my own.

[PallasAthena]

Sounds like an excellent suggestion. I'd definitely look into that myself if I had a yard to set up a pond of my own.

Sounds like an excellent suggestion to me, too. And if your parents don't think that a stock tank would look pretty in the yard, you can just show them this thread (http://www.aquariacentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=193409)! Jennie Beth's pond is gorgeous, and it sounds like it would be much easier for you than worrying about liners and things. You could even bury the thing in your pre-dug hole to help keep the temp down enough for your goldfish.