View Full Version : Do Ghost Shrimp Eat Snails????
Wycco
05-21-2009, 10:47 AM
I didn't think they did- Snail eggs maybe- but not actual snails.
Nonetheless, I've read several times in the last few days comments about Ghost Shrimp eating snails- are they really eating snails? Living snails, not just dead ones?
Has anyone actually witnessed this? Or is this just based upon suspicions due to declining snail populations?
I can understand population drops because they eat eggs... but are actual adult snails being consumed. It's not that I don't trust the sources... it's just- the thought of how can fragile little shrimp get into those shells to eat the snails or pry them from their rocks and glass?
Two alternate reasons for population crashes:
1) Shrimp out competing snails for food.
2) Shrimp eating eggs- thus no more babies.
I remain skeptical- but having read about ghost shrimp eating snails several times lately it makes me fear for my baby gold ramshorn (who I haven't actaully seen in 24 hrs) and my new red rams.
Zebulon
05-21-2009, 11:36 AM
Since there are many species collectively referred to as ghost shrimp, I'd guess that some are more capable than others at disemboweling a mollusk. The variety I have don't have the claws nor the gumption to go for my baby MTS, but that's not to say that none of them will. I'd assume that those with larger front claws are better equipped for that sort of thing.
Check out the pics in this thread:
http://www.aquaticquotient.com/forum/showthread.php?t=3173
http://www.ntu.edu.sg/home/kfloh/photos/shrimp_eat_snail4.jpg
Note big front claws.
rithunder916
05-21-2009, 11:45 AM
Interesting! Ghost shrimp eat snails, depending on which ones you have.
This interestes me...must..learn...more!
Mike
Hebily
05-21-2009, 11:52 AM
lol.
That site talks about ghost shrimp attacking tetras. Mine have never attacked a fish, but I'm pretty sure they eat snails. I've had really tiny neons with the ghost shrimp with no problem. I think they would rather scavenge, and eat baby snails. Like anything, if they are starving, they will go for the bigger prey.
Wycco
05-21-2009, 11:52 AM
Wow... interesting- I wonder if the snail were already dead or dying though?
Those don't look the same as the feeder species I picked up at SuperPetz. Mine has less colouration around the head and thorax and lacks that vicious looking claw.
This is day 3 of having them- and I don't know if it is my imagination- but it looks like there might be less snails in the tank- but maybe I'm just imagining it- they couldn't have made a dent in the snail population already... I'll have to rescue my red and gold snails "just to be safe" until I'm sure one way or another.
The snail could just be hiding more now there are fish and shrimp in with them.
Are other dwarf shrimp known to attack snails?
Wycco
05-21-2009, 11:54 AM
Early days yet- but mine seem scared by the Danios and Cherry Barbs- they spend the daylight hours hiding. The Danios are psychotic nutters dashing here and there playing with each other. If I were a shrimp I'd be scared of them too.
Hebily
05-21-2009, 12:06 PM
I think danios scare everything.... they are hyper!
rithunder916
05-21-2009, 12:43 PM
Agreed, i'll research some more to find out!
Mike
Wycco
05-21-2009, 12:46 PM
Hebily, you mentioned the other day you thought your ghosts ate snails (which is why when I saw on another thread two people claiming the same thing I started this thread).
Looks like your theory might have been right as to the disappearance of your snails- wouldn't have thought the dainty little things had it in them- but I guess they're vicious little killers after all! :)
Are your Ghost shrimp like the ones mentioned on that other site with that claw and colouration- or are yours different. I think mine might be another species- but I'm curious if it's just that type of ghost that is a snailer or if others (such as mine) could be as well.
Hebily
05-21-2009, 12:52 PM
Mine have very faint, red 'stripes' on their heads, and darker red bands on their 'claw' arms. They have claws, but the claws are rather small. I'll try and see if I can get some clear pics when I get home.
Hmmm that might be different than mine as well... mine do have a claw appendage but it doesn't look like anything very menacining on the end. (hard to tell- they stay in a shallow cave at the back when it's hard to see them).
Besides the internal organs they're almost colourless. I recall a yellowish line between each segment in their body though- and they have a little bluish on them a few specs here and there.
Without catching one I don't think I'll be able to take a photo of them since they stay hidden.
Maybe a different species and I may be safe.
The thing that stands out the most on them are the dark blue eggs in the females.
Hebily
05-21-2009, 1:11 PM
Mine have green eggs
Zebulon
05-21-2009, 1:20 PM
Since there are like thirty different species from glass to grass to ghost shrimp that are commonly confused, it's really a matter of monitoring behavior. Their feeding behaviors are going to vary. I'm certain that the OP in the thread I linked is being sincere and the photos look genuine, so at least one species does eat snails. It wouldn't surprise me if others did too, as well as small fish etc. Bigger shrimps and crays certainly do.
Can you get us a pic of your shrimps for comparison? Also what about netting out one of your bigger shrimp, and a baby snail, put them in a viewer box, sit back and see what happens. Just a thought.
Big for me is 3/4 inch at the moment! LOL... eggs definately not green. I'd call them navy or black. I'll try catching one so I can take a photo.
Wifes got the camera with her so it'll have to be a camera phone photo!
kyryah
05-21-2009, 1:50 PM
This is what mine look like, and they are most assuredly NOT eating snails. I have not found a single dead snail, not one, no empty shells.
http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll63/kyryah/Aquatic/KristinaspicturesDONOTDELETE1001.jpg
http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll63/kyryah/Aquatic/KristinaspicturesDONOTDELETE1010.jpg
These have also successfully bred and grown to adulthood in pure freshwater. I have three young adults out of the female pictured.
Kristina
rithunder916
05-21-2009, 1:56 PM
Yes it looks like the American Glass shrimp is more menancing than the Ghost fish, there are several species that are refered to as "ghost" The most common one is the American Glass shimp which from what I have been reading will eat anything it can get it's claws on, may it be fry or snails. The only clear way to tell which you have is to get alot of good pictures and start comparing to known pictures.
Mike
OK... photos taken- I'll figure out how to get them off my phone now.
Caught a berried female and held the net close to the glass. Not very good photos but still... I'd say Kyrah's look more like mine- but unless it's the photos- or hers are just more settle mine are more transparant.
Maybe my eggs are greenish- they to have a greenish tint to them when held up close to the light with my net... The eggs are a much darker colour than most I've seen online.
Anyhow- let me figure away to get these on here and you can judge for yourself.
Hmmmm... I'll have to try this again tonight with the wife's camera. :(
I'm tempted to go to Petsmart and examine their shrimp closely to see if they are the same species as stocked by Superpetz (where I got mine)...
... incidentally- found it amusing- had the Danios (as mentioned above that keep my ghosts in hiding) three days- they're already familiar enough with me that a couple of them came up to me and started "kissing" my arm as I reached in to remove a cave to get at the shrimp.
june2000
05-21-2009, 3:07 PM
Most ghost shrimps in US are Palaemonetes sp. (paludosus). They are not really aggressive.
However, some Macrobrachium sp. are also sold as ghost shrimp. Macrobrachium shrimps are much more aggressive than other species. They sometimes attack small fishes and sure will eat some snails.
It is extremely difficult to distinguish juvenile Macrobrachium sp. form Palaemonetes sp when they are young.
The shrimp in kyryah's photo is indeed Palaemonetes paludosus.
I think it is safe to say I don't have Macrobrachium because mine must be adults, they're berried. Mine do look very similar to Kyryahs- just more transparant. It could just be a different varient... mine also are probably quite stressed after their time in the petstore- and now moving to a new tank inhabited by crazed Danios- so probably would be less coloured.
Superpetz would be missing out on some funds selling Macros for just 33cents each... If they really were I'd have to stock up on them! ;) If I'm not mistaken- Macros are normally considerably more expensive than that.
BTW- the photo here:
http://www.theaquariumwiki.com/Ghost_shrimp
Looks almost identical to mine- it is noted as a Palaemonetes paludosus so I guess that's what mine is.
Only difference is- mine have darker eyes and darker eggs... other than that- that looks just like my shrimp.
Hebily
05-21-2009, 3:30 PM
My shrimp were 10 for a dollar. When I said I wanted 5, he started netting out a whole bunch... He thought I meant $5 worth.
Zebulon
05-21-2009, 4:59 PM
The ones we have here are a wild type of Neocaridina denticulata sinensis, now known as Neocaridina heteropoda. They have invaded most of Oahu's local streams and are out-competing the local low-order Mountain Opae.
In case you are curious, a plain old Neocaridina has a lovely tan/yellow stripe down the middle of the back on large females, and a freckled skirt, dark dark green saddle and green eggs. Males are mostly transparent and small. Their hobbies include eating algae and reproducing explosively, even faster than regular cherry or yellow vars. Without that trademark red/yellow color, you'd probably call them "ghost shrimp" just like the guys at the LFS. Occasionally though you'll see a couple of the local opae mixed in there, and it just makes me sad. Anyhoo, rambling sorry.
Ahhhh... that would explain why some people say ghost shrimp will cross breed with Red Cherry.
If some places sell neocaridina AS ghost shrimp- they would cross breed!!!!
Sawyer
05-21-2009, 11:34 PM
:( Guess I can't have any ghost shrimp in with snails and other small things like otos.
would red cherry shrimp kill snails/small fish?
ChilDawg
05-21-2009, 11:36 PM
:( Guess I can't have any ghost shrimp in with snails and other small things like otos.
would red cherry shrimp kill snails/small fish?
IME, only if they're dying anyway. I'm pretty sure they took out a dying Japanese Trapdoor Snail in my tank.
wetwillyjoe69
05-21-2009, 11:46 PM
i have a RCS tank with some ramshorns in a 10 gal that i cant seem to get rid of. i dropped a few new assassin snails in and the adult RCS swarmed over and started picking at the assassins. needless to say im still going to pluck out the larger snails from time to time.
Hebily
05-22-2009, 12:09 AM
I've never had a problem with ghost shrimp and oto's. I think when they say 'small fish' they mean REALLY small, like only small fry.
kyryah
05-22-2009, 12:20 AM
I have my "ghost shrimp" in with about 36 briggs, RCS, uncountable MTS and ramshorns, and an oto, and have yet to have had a casualty. I think an oto would be fine.
Kristina
Incidentally bringing this back up:
I think something is eating my smaller snails (not MTS) and I don't have any snailer-fish in my tank.
Danios, Cherry Barbs, Bulldog Pleco, Ramshorns, Bladders, MTS... and the ghost shrimp.
I've not seen a bladder snail smaller than 5mm in days. Sure they grow quick, but there arn't many large ones either. It used to be I could look just about anywhere in the tank and see a small snail without searching too hard.
My little golden ramshorn seems to be gone too... Haven't seen him in days. Big Ramshorn seems fine- still seeing as many MTS of all sorts of sizes.
Something is eating or killing off the smaller snails- either that or increased competition from a population of shrimp (and a potentially growing population of MTS) is starving the bladders.
I've not witnessed it yet- but I bet my ghost shrimp ARE eating the very smallest of the bladder snails... it appears I do very well might have snail eating ghosts...
... although, when I first got the Danios they did investigate all the tiny snails in their endless pursuit of food... none of them actually seemed to eat them.
It really seems only the bladder snail population that has crashed. Still have a few small rams and the big ram (although I'd love to know what happened to goldie) MTS population seems fine too.