View Full Version : PLEASE HELP!! SICK GOLDFISH!
beabroca
05-22-2009, 9:02 PM
just was looking at my fish and noticed that cali, my calico oranda has big white patches on her!!
i dont know what to do!
please respond!
do i need to take her out of the tank and into a sick tank?
mel_20_20
05-22-2009, 9:26 PM
I would get her out immediately and into a QT/hospital tank and start treatment immediately. I just successfully treated a Brochis that had a bacterial infection (internal) that had already become septicemia, and he is now fully recovered.
I treated him with Maracyn and Maracyn II, gram negative and gram positive antibiotics to give good coverage. I did 80% water changes every 24 hours, just before each dose of meds were added to the tank.
Pristine water and the meds really did the trick.
Having said that, one of the goldfish experts, Kashta or Flaringshutter will probably respond to this post and if I'm off the mark on treatment suggestion, then they will correct my advice, and rightly so.
All I can say is, I think immediate action is needed. I can't tell you how bad my brochis looked, and now he's fine. I think it's because I caught it early and was diligent with water changes and the two med took care of whatever bacteria was causing the illness.
What you describe sounds like columnaris to me. I would isolate her for sure, keep her water pristine. I think antibiotics are needed. I hope she will be OK.
Again, I hope the goldie experts will be along soon.
mel_20_20
05-22-2009, 9:28 PM
First thing Kashta and Flaringshutter will ask for will be pics. Please get some and post ASAP. Also, they will want to know your parameters, and water change schedule. Also tank size and other occupants.
EDIT: Oh, I see it's a 20 gallon high and there's a moor in with her. Is that still accurate?
Pics are very important. It can be anything, not just bacterial infections. The descrption of big white patches is highly unusual. Normally, columnaris starts with white patches near the mouth and near the dorsal fin. Does the black moor exhibit any unusual symptoms as well assuming the signature is updated?
mel_20_20
05-22-2009, 9:41 PM
Lupin!!! Thank goodness you're here. I forgot you were a goldie man, in addition to snails and loaches, lol.
Lupin!!! Thank goodness you're here. I forgot you were a goldie man, in addition to snails and loaches, lol.
Nah, Mel, I wouldn't consider myself a goldfish expert. I just came back in this arena after a few years.:)
beabroca
05-22-2009, 11:41 PM
yes she is in with the moor and another type of goldfish....the white patches are near her face and by her side fins...
params are nitrite and nitrate at normals levels ph 7.2 and ammonia safe
none of the other fish are showing signs of anything, as soon as i seen it i took her out, she is in a bowl right now (a fish bowl) but if i need her in another tank i will go buy one at walmart now....
i bought some stuff to treat the columnaris, it was so sudden, i didnt even see it, i looked at them and told them bye (i know, sad) before i went out to dinner came home (said hello) and noticed right away...i used reg tank water in the bowl as not to aggrivate the situation.
my camara isnt working all i can do is explain the patches....the worst spot is about the size of a nickle on her side (and she isnt that big) its around her eyes and nose aahhh
beabroca
05-22-2009, 11:57 PM
also, i just got back from buying that medicine for columnaris, and it said to treat every 4 days...how am i to change the water every day, if the medicine has to be there for 4 days??
AND, how long do i keep her in the quarintine tank to be safe?
Lupin
05-23-2009, 12:05 AM
yes she is in with the moor and another type of goldfish....the white patches are near her face and by her side fins...
This does sound like columnaris as I anticipated. It's not unusual the patches start with fins and faces before they spread to the middle of the body and appear with white edges on the scales. Does the fish clamp its fins and swim listlessly? Has the fish been injured before? What decorations do you have in your tank?
params are nitrite and nitrate at normals levels ph 7.2 and ammonia safe
Do you mean zero ammonia and nitrite? What about your nitrate? Dear, we need to be specific so we will know the whole thing and be able to treat the fish as quickly as possible before it persists.
none of the other fish are showing signs of anything, as soon as i seen it i took her out, she is in a bowl right now (a fish bowl) but if i need her in another tank i will go buy one at walmart now....
How big is the bowl? She has nowhere to hide around unfortunately and there may not be enough space to operate a sponge filter temporarily. Assuming your room temperature does not increase above 80 degrees nor fall below 70 degrees, you will not need a heater. If possible, please get a 10g tank. Keep it barebottom with a sponge filter only. Add a few plastic plants for refuge and make sure the plastic plants do not have sharp edges or wires that could injure the fish.
Bear in mind, with bacterial infections, they progress better when the temperature is high. Keep the temperature at 72-76 degrees Fahrenheit. Monitor the temperature regularly. I am aware it may be summer in your area so be very careful with the conditions your goldfish is in.
i bought some stuff to treat the columnaris, it was so sudden, i didnt even see it, i looked at them and told them bye (i know, sad) before i went out to dinner came home (said hello) and noticed right away...i used reg tank water in the bowl as not to aggrivate the situation.
I would switch to new water to keep the environment very clean. Old tank water tends to aggravate matters especially as the fish becomes stressed and weak immune systems generally are the ones targetted by the Aeromonas and Pseudomonas bacteria.
What medicines did you buy? Could you please run in the ingredients? You could simply use tetracycline. If you suspect both gram-positive and gram-negative bacteria are involved, combine Maracyn and Maracyn 2 to cover both. Columnaris is a gram-negative bacteria but there is no telling it is not the only one affecting your fish badly.
also, i just got back from buying that medicine for columnaris, and it said to treat every 4 days...how am i to change the water every day, if the medicine has to be there for 4 days??
AND, how long do i keep her in the quarintine tank to be safe?
Post the treatment first before we can speak further on this. As far as quarantine, until you are sure she has recovered, please do not return her to the main tank. Again, you need a 10g tank rather than a fish bowl.
Edit: Please read this thread.
http://www.aquariacentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=134928
leeser28
05-23-2009, 12:06 AM
Well, I couldn't sleep, and now I'm glad :)
A couple of questions - you say other fish -- how many, and is it still the 20 gal high?
2 -- what are the actual water paramaters (if you haven't already done a water change).
3 -- When was your last water change, and how much?
leeser28
05-23-2009, 12:20 AM
Lupin was fast. I did forget to mention that using a bowl - unless it's a huge 10 gal bowl - for a QT tank is not a good idea. It's hard to does, hard to keep crystal clear, hard to keep at the right temp, etc.
beabroca
05-23-2009, 1:04 AM
i only put her in the bowl until i could get her a 10 gal, which i just got back from doing...there is no fish store open here at 2 am so i bought some stuff called, fungus eliminator...it says it treats the columnaris and some other things...
ingredidents are sodium chorlide, nitrofurazone, potassium dichromate.
i can not find anything else at the walmart other than this.
parameters...
nitrate- 20
nitrite-0
ph 7.2
ammonia -0
im fixing up the 10 gallon now...
do i treat her with this stuff?
beabroca
05-23-2009, 1:06 AM
oh and for decorations, there are 2 very tall plants (plastic) and a large peice of wood. (from the lfs)
last water change was yesterday 50%
also i bought a constant heater that stays at 76, is this to high?? it wont shock her since she is a coldwater fish?:
i only put her in the bowl until i could get her a 10 gal, which i just got back from doing...there is no fish store open here at 2 am so i bought some stuff called, fungus eliminator...it says it treats the columnaris and some other things...
ingredidents are sodium chorlide, nitrofurazone, potassium dichromate.
i can not find anything else at the walmart other than this.
parameters...
nitrate- 20
nitrite-0
ph 7.2
ammonia -0
im fixing up the 10 gallon now...
do i treat her with this stuff?
Your water parameters are fine. Until you get the 10g, do water changes for now and monitor water parameters every hour if you feel it necessary just to be sure. How big is the bowl? It is very risky to treat right now especially as there is a chance overdosage can happen and kill the fish.
leeser28
05-23-2009, 1:13 AM
I really don't know about meds for goldfish - sorry.
About the temp, I'd raise it slowly over time. Again, I'm a tropical person, not temperate. I'm just curious about how/why she got the infection - it never fails that when any of my fish have been ill it's because of water quality. Do you use strips or liquid tests? And what other fish are in there?
oh and for decorations, there are 2 very tall plants (plastic) and a large peice of wood. (from the lfs)
last water change was yesterday 50%
also i bought a constant heater that stays at 76, is this to high?? it wont shock her since she is a coldwater fish?:
It'll work just fine. It's on a neutral ground and will slow down bacterial infection from progressing further. Does your room temperature soar above 80 at all?
I really don't know about meds for goldfish - sorry.
About the temp, I'd raise it slowly over time. Again, I'm a tropical person, not temperate. I'm just curious about how/why she got the infection - it never fails that when any of my fish have been ill it's because of water quality. Do you use strips or liquid tests? And what other fish are in there?
Leslie, raising the temperature will only cause the bacterial infection to progress quickly. It has to stay at 74-76 degrees Fahrenheit to avoid the development.
leeser28
05-23-2009, 1:22 AM
Thanks Lupin - but just to clarify - I meant raising it from the temp the fish is now to the 76 degree heater she has. Not to keep raising it -- sorry, I need to think through my thoughts more.
beabroca
05-23-2009, 1:42 AM
she is in the 10 gallon now....
i treated her with the meds...
im headed to bed, guess we'll see how she is in the morning
wish her luck!
beabroca
05-23-2009, 1:43 AM
and the temp never goes over 72 in my home
I'll cross my fingers she'll be fine.:)
beabroca
05-23-2009, 1:45 AM
also, i do not see how the infection is from water quailty, the liquid test always runs good and we do regular water changes...i dont know how this happened
beabroca
05-23-2009, 1:46 AM
OH AND QUICKLY...should i use aquarium salt to help her too?
i hope to hear answers by morning, i wont use it now
OH AND QUICKLY...should i use aquarium salt to help her too?
i hope to hear answers by morning, i wont use it now
No, don't use it. Your med has sodium chloride already.
beabroca
05-23-2009, 3:04 PM
okay, this afternoon, it doesnt look worse but only a tad bit better....im getting ready to change some of the water....so i hope shell be fine....i keep checking the others for signs of it to remove them as soon as they show signs :(
Flaringshutter
05-23-2009, 6:38 PM
best of luck bea, Lupin and leeser have you covered. keep us updated!
beabroca
05-26-2009, 3:47 PM
it doesnt look like she is getting better!...she acts fine but spots are still there..
Kashta
05-27-2009, 2:11 AM
Sometimes the disease lingers or even appears to get worse before it gets better, Bea. So hang in there and don't get discouraged. Keep the water pristine, the fish well fed, and continue treatment until it either corrects the problem or you're certain the fish isn't going to survive.
For Columnaris (aka Flex)...
Treatment: Despite its fungus look, flex is caused by a bacterium. It will respond to Medi-Gold or common water antibiotics like Kanamycin, Spectogram or Maracyn and Maracyn 2. (Remember Marcyn and Maracyn 2 are not compatible with Medigold). Adding salt to the water (3 teaspoons per gallon) also helps because it keeps flex from being able to stick to the fish.
Please keep us posted with frequent updates. Good luck!