Bravest Shrimp Species (or dwarf crays)

[Wycco]

So, a month or two back I decided to get back into fish-keeping. What actually made me want to get back into fishkeeping was seeing some shrimp in a store.

Didn't want to just keep shrimp- wanted fish too...(starting out with one tank... one day I hope to have an invert only tank... but not yet)

So, I researched like crazy what fish won't eat shrimp, adults of course... I know everything will eat the shrimplets- and I just have to provide lots of hiding spots if I want them to maintain a population.

Naturally, I read that if you have any fish, you won't see the shrimps full behaviour and characteristics- but I thought... small fish... maybe shrimp won't be quite as active... but I'll see 'em some.

So, I fishless cycled the aquarium, got some fish (Danios, Cherry Barbs & a Bulldog Pleco- I will get Corydoras soon and that will complete my fish-list)
I also got some Ghost Shrimp (I believe, American Freshwater Grass shrimp to be precise), 7 of them, to test my shrimp readyness. Watched for a week...

... the shrimp almost never come out of hiding- all are still alive after a week (I expected some to die after reading ghost shrimp have high initial die-off rates) - they all look clear and healthy, no milkyness, the berried ones have kept their eggs (I know if they're too stressed or unhealthy they'll drop them) but they all stay in hiding. (Probably due to my psychotic danios who are in perpetual motion).

Is this going to happen no matter what species of Dwarf Shrimp I get? Or is it just that 7 is a small number for 55 gallons (I got them as a test). Will having more shrimp encourage them out into the open?

I had planned to get some Red Cherries and some of the "blue-black mystery shrimp" that MsJinked was selling- will these just go into hiding too?

Is there a compatible shrimp species that is perhaps a little braver than the rest? Amanos are bigger- would I see them more? macros are not an option because I don't want my dans or barbs to be dinner.


An alternative to shrimp would be Dwarf Crayfish (cajun or mexican depending on which I could locate first).

My fish are all hardy types- so I could adjust water parameters to suit them. At the mo- I'm keeping 6 hardness for both GH and KH. pH is about 7.5ish.

[snoopy65]

I think maybe it is your choice of fish that have the shrimp hiding. The fish are all larger than the shrimp and therefore the shrimp think of them as a preditor and hide from them. I have a 30 gal tank that I have cherry shrimp, rabbit snails, ember tetra, endlers, and pygmy cory cats in. All of the inhabitants are out all of the time. The cherry shrimp swimming right along side the tetra and embers. I use to have cherries in with other slightly larger fish, and they hid all of the time.

[Wycco]

Perhaps... although Danio and Cherry Barbs arn't very big fish- bigger than ghosts but not very big- certainly not as big as Corydoras get and you mention you have some. Danios and Cherry Barbs usually get about 2 inches- right now they're all smaller than that...

I suspect it is more how ACTIVE the Danio are... I've seen them go swimming through a cave that a Ghost is hiding in and just barrel it aside.

The Pleco is bigger-sure- although he arrived after the shrimp.- they were hiding before he came along- and he's inactive much of the daylight hours anyway.



Perhaps Cherry Shrimp are braver than Ghost shrimp though? Or it could just be a number thing. 7 Ghost shrimp in a 55g arn't very many... I really only got the ghosts as a test ahead of my planned Cherry Shrimp.

[snoopy65]

It could be the numbers and the activity of the danios. The cory cats I have in there are pygmys. The larger females only get to be an inch.

[kyryah]

I have an invert only tank, and my shrimp, both the ghosts and the rcs, are constantly all over the tank. When they were housed with my guppies, I very rarely saw any of them. I only have experience with those too, I wish I was more help, lol.

Kristina

[Wycco]

It could be the numbers and the activity of the danios. The cory cats I have in there are pygmys. The larger females only get to be an inch.

Gotcha...

Yeah, I suspect perhaps the same... I was hoping one species might be a little braver.



I have an invert only tank, and my shrimp, both the ghosts and the rcs, are constantly all over the tank. When they were housed with my guppies, I very rarely saw any of them. I only have experience with those too, I wish I was more help, lol.

Kristina



So not much luck then until I get an invert only tank one day. (or even smaller fish).


I wonder what success people have had with Amanos or dwarf Crays... I wondered if Danios were a mistake... I just love them for their activity... unfortunately Shrimp do not. Having tiny fish in a 55gallon I wanted something active to keep things interesting.



Perhaps the shrimp will learn in time that the danios are nothing more than aquine equivalents of springer spaniels and won't hurt them. How long were your shrimp in with guppies?

[msjinkzd]

I keep my cherry shrimp with cherry barbs and they are visible and active as adults. I have a large centralized piece of driftwood with plants andthat is where they hang out the most. The activity of hte danios is probably what is spooking your shrimp, they are the bottom of the food chain afterall.

[Wycco]

I'm working on some driftwood- soaking outside in saltwater... it'll be a few weeks before it's ready.

I put in lots of slate caves- they're hiding in them or hidden in the plants where they are densest... I can normally only find 2 or 3 when I look- so they may have other hiding spots I haven't figured out.

First thing in the morning when I turn the lights on I see them out a little- even witnessed them playing in the bubbles like a fish.


If we can confirm it's the Danios- I guess that means I'm out of luck (without getting another tank). I think the Barbs might be to blame too... My Cherry Barbs are anything but the quiet peacefull barbs I've seen other have- they join in the Danio's games and chase the Danios playfully through the plants and into the bubbles- and likewise the Danios with the Barbs. During water change barbs and danios all school close together when I stick my arm in... except for the braver Danios who come up and peck my arm.

I do hope when my Corydoras arrive next weekend they'll help a little. If they occupy the bottom levels perhaps the Danios will spend more time at the surface. Right now they spread out all over the tank- perhaps spending more time at the bottom because most of my plants arn't tall enough to reach the surface yet and they seem to love weaving through the plants and caves at break neck pace.


Do you think any species of shrimp would tolerate the Danios? Do they ever get more comfortable with them? Would more shrimp = more active shrimp or would it just equal more hiding shrimp?

[Wycco]

So here is my solution (long term).

I need a stand for my 55g- so I'm planning the following... just need to figure out if the build is possible:

Build my own stand- 55gallon with two smaller aquariums underneath. (2 20g???- will that work). Need to build stand that can withstand weight of big aquarium plus 2 smaller ones.

Top aquarium is my community tank. One of the smaller ones becomes the invert tank- mixed shrimp + snails. The other smaller one becomes a Cray tank. Not Dwarf Crays necessarily... I know I can find regular Crays around here. How many crays will fit in a 20G without killing each other?



Voila- problem solved... Wife wasn't too thrilled with the idea- but she didn't pull the kitchen knife out on me- so I think she'll come around.


I can spread it out over time to distribute the costs... but this way the tanks don't take up any more room than the one tank already will. (in the kitchen at the moment awaiting a stand).

[pinkertd]

I have amanos in my 75G with my group of 11 L144 bristlenose plecos, 7 sterbai cory, about 36 embers, 7 black cories, and 2 SAE's and they are out and about all the time. They are not afraid of my hands either. I also have a few cherries in there and they went in tiny with plants and much to my surprise are growing and saddled! They are also out and about, but not quite out in the open all the time as the amanos.

I have a few amanos in my discus tank and they slipped a little note in a bottle and sent it to me.....it says..........we're never coming out from underneath this piece of driftwood as long as the whales are in sight. :evil_lol: So....they stay under the driftwood.

[jenazen69]

I have a few amanos in my discus tank and they slipped a little note in a bottle and sent it to me.....it says..........we're never coming out from underneath this piece of driftwood as long as the whales are in sight. :evil_lol: So....they stay under the driftwood.
:lol::rofl::laugh:
You could always try taking the danio's back, and get a slower smaller fish.

[jooranda]

try amano shrimp they are lovely and housed with cherry barbs and white clouds they can be shy but mine go all over the tank sit on the bridge have a wonder round the tank and even fight over algae wafers with the fish amano are the best .

[Wycco]

One ghost decided to be brave this morning at feeding time... first time I've had them that one swam all the way to the surface (first time I've seen one that is). Hopefully this is a sign of things to come. Maybe I just need to be more patient- it's only been a week... may take a while to get used to how psychotic my fish are.

Of course, didn't help that the Danios in their mad dashes around the tank kept colliding into him. I really think it has to be the activity to blame.

I know better now. I'm not going to take the Danios back though.

I hunted around town for more ghosts yesterday (I thought maybe with safety in numbers they'll come out)- everyone is out. No other shrimp sold locally.

I'll see if I can hunt down Amanos- I'll probably have to wait for them to be sold online.

[Wycco]

Well... there goes the safety in numbers idea. Found some more ghost shrimp at a local Petsmart.

Not 100% sure they're the same species/subspecies.

2 differences. Superpetz ghost shrimp had dark blue eggs- that when held close to the light had a greenish tint.

Petsmart shrimp had green eggs with an amberish tint.

Superpetz shrimp almost entirely colourless with slight blue colouration in spots.

Petsmart shrimp have bits of red on legs, antenna and tails- one has a red stripe across his body.


Anyhow- put 15 of the Petsmart shrimp in the tank- so there are now a total of 22. First 45 minutes was a huge success- they happily swam around the tank exploring... then one by one they started hiding in the caves and plants like their superpetz cousins.

They do seem to recognise the smell of fish flakes better though- because at feeding time three or four of the new "red marking" shrimp briefly emerged from their hiding places to grab some food (and then hide again).



So it looks like I need to track down Amano if I want to see my shrimp- safety in numbers is ruled out.

[Arakkis]

maybe a macrobrachium spp might work.. though some of the larger species may eat your fish

[jooranda]

i got some leopard danios and they dint bother my shrimp cause mine swim at the top of the tank all the time but if u worried about the shrimp put them in a home all by themselves

[Wycco]

Are there species of Macro shrimp that won't eat my fish??? Ultimately I could go with a bamboo shrimp or something- but they wouldn't be able to reproduce and keep a population going (plus there is the whole issue of me living in an area with no shrimp except ghosts for sale- so it would be hard to come by).



i got some leopard danios and they dint bother my shrimp cause mine swim at the top of the tank all the time but if u worried about the shrimp put them in a home all by themselves

That's fine- and as I said above, I think that is my ultimate goal. At this moment in time though that's not an option... ideally, I'd love if they could be in a community tank. I chose mainly smaller fish with the shrimp in mind- and now the shrimp are in hiding.

The new Ghost shrimp with red markings seem to come out a little bit for feeding and I occasionally see one or two swimming around. So I am getting more activity finally.

As for the Danios swimming top level... that's where I hoped mine would be... but they're all over the tank- and because the caves and plants that they like to play in and chase each other through are near the bottom they spend quite a bit of time in the lower realms. Perhaps when my bottom feeders arrive this weekend they'll push the Danios topwards.

It could also be my lights are too bright- I've been planning to get some floating plants and setting up a "shade zone" but despite trying to order twice from people haven't had any success getting any alive... one the seller cancelled, the other the plants arrived already dead

I may have to go pond hopping- and see if I can harvest a small amount from a publicly available lake... and just bleach and fizz it to remove any nasties.

[Wycco]

OK... for anyone not sick of hearing about my reclusive Ghost Shrimp...

Just an update:

I was just being a tad impatient I think. Each day I see them more and more. At feeding time I normally see four or five emerge from hiding. (which considering there are 20 isn't a lot- but the numbers that emerge are growing from one to two to four- now five).

They definately know when food is around. They must have great sense of smell.

There are normally another five or so who move to the front of their caves and hope food happens to drift in to them... either that or trying to drum up the courage to emerge... so that accounts for half my shrimp. Half are in hiding at any one time- even feeding time.

I don't think I'll ever see all of them at the same time- in part because they're so hard to see- but also, I suspect the will remain slightly skittish. The Danios seem to bother them less now- I ocassionally see a shrimp swimming right through a group of Danios.

Nonetheless, it makes me happy to see my shrimp out and about... fascinating creatures... and they ARE the reason I got back into fishkeeping- so I'm glad I'm slowly seeing them more and more. Hopefully by this time next year they can have their own aquarium free of fish...

I think I'll definately try another species as well. One with pigmentation.

[Jane of Upton]

I'd definitely try to find some floating plants. The various kinds of Danios I've had have all liked to dash out into the "sunny" area, IF they had a nice dense plant mass or floating raft which they could get to quickly for cover.

I think your idea of changing the fish behavior so they're not hovering or dashing around near the bottom of the tank is the best idea. That, and the growing confidence of the shrimp will help.

So.... go find some floaters! I'm surprised you can't find some Water Sprite - even smaller pet stores with no aquatic plants to speak of usually have some of this. If LFS don't have what you're looking for, I wonder if there is a pond supplier in your area. Some garden centers get in some pond plants for the summer, and some of this stuff could provide a temporary floating mass until your plants fill in.

Best of luck with it!
-Jane

[Jane of Upton]

Oh,

and as for dwarf crays, I keep some Dwarf Cajun Crays in my community tank. Its heavily planted, and while the crays aren't afraid of ANYone - they'll raise their claws and go on the offense if a fish gets too close - they seem to prefer to hang out in the heavily shaded areas. They'll go on patrols around the tank, and two of the females like to climb a bushy plant and nestle into the densest part, and watch the other inhabitants, sort of like in a tree fort, LOL!

So, while the crays are more "brave", they don't just hang out on an open part of the bottom like you see in pictures of shrimp-only tanks with crystal reds, or even cherries.

-Jane

[Wycco]

They'll go on patrols around the tank...

...So, while the crays are more "brave", they don't just hang out on an open part of the bottom like you see in pictures of shrimp-only tanks with crystal reds, or even cherries.


That sounds quite a bit like my shrimp behaviour now. The vast majority of shrimp stay in hiding- and venture to the open areas just outside their chosen caves at feeding time. They're quite intelligent- they've learnt I feed them after turning the lights on- they come out the moment I turn the lights on now. (either that or they're picking up one queues from the fish).


Some of my shrimp have learnt the fish whereas boisterous are not going to hurt them- and will now venture out- do a quick patrol of the tank and then return to their chosen cave.

At any one time now I usually see about 3 or 4 shrimp on patrol. I suspect it's the same ones I see over and over again and that the majority are just chicken.

I've seen some really small ones the last couple of days- about 1cm long- can shrimp shrink? I think I'm feeding them plenty so they're not starving- I don't remember any I purchased being that small- but they're too big to have grown from babies to that size in my tank. Surely they can't grow to a centimetre in just two weeks! My original 7 did contain 3 berried females.

Maybe I'm just crazy and there were some that size.




Regarding floating plants- there might be Water Sprite- I have seen Hornwort which can float- but I've been holding out for Azolla, Frogbit, Water Lettuce, red root floater- etc.

I do have a little guppy grass that can float, and one strand of hornwort which came in the mail with my MTS- but I want a floating plant that looks tidy floating... the other plants I keep secured at the bottom.

I PMed one seller yesterday but haven't heard back yet.

I think this weekend I'll go on a harvesting trip and see what local lakes/ponds have.




One day I will have an invert only tank- it may not be for a while though. I love crayfish- I may try and track down some dwarf Cajuns. Any idea what the going rate on them are- or any recommended sellers online?

[Hebily]

My ghosts wander all around the bottom, most of the day... they play, and scour the sand for food. At night, they will all hide in this one cave, and there are always two of them that look like they are standing guard at the entrance. Of course, they are many generations in, so they have had plenty of time to adjust.