Clown Loaches - a few questions, if you will

[andy5268]

Thanks,

i had five of these guys for about three years, one just died.

i heard that have even numbers of these guys is bad because they pair or something - true?

Most of are around 4", if i do add a new one he will likely be very small how will he get along witht the bigger ones?

I battled ich when i added the clowns a few years ago which i heard was normal with clowns, will i go through that again with new ones?

Thanks!

[OrionGirl]

Clowns are happier with more than just one friend, but I have never heard of them being a problem in even numbers. Sounds like a variety of the whole even vrs odd number myths--the fish don't really care, but humans find odd numbers more pleasing arrangements than even numbers.

I've heard that clowns will happily socialize with a broad size grouping--hopefully someone can confirm this.

Do you know why this one died? Clowns are a very long lived species if kept in appropriately sized tanks and conditions, and other than parasites and ammonia, are fairly hardy. I would try to determine why this fish died, to prevent others from succumbing.

For ich--clowns are all wild caught, and most come in with parasitic infections. This is one of the species that I would always quarantine and treat for parasites. Otherwise, it's a pretty good bet that it will introduce some pathogen to your main tank.

[dethjam316]

it's a myth. i have 3 clowns, mine are great together BUT i have 4 (gasp!) yoyos, and they're also doing just swell. :) follow OG's advice. she's a winner.

[BBN]

Would 4 of these guys be too many for a 75 gallon tank? I've already got a pair of angels 3 silver dollars and a dozen rummy nose tetras. I'm guessing I may be pushing it, however I removed an angel a huge gold severum and a couple of black and yellow aggressive striped fish(don't remember the name) that were about 5" long each so the tank looks somewhat empty.

[LMOUTHBASS]

i have a clown question too! I got 3 baby clowns a month ago i bypassed quarantining them because my q tank was under an ick invasion ( so techincally i shoulnt have bought them because i coulnt q them properly) but they were from a small lfs shop i trust - anyhow i coulnt resist them their colors were brilliant and they had unique strip patterns very pretty - so i put them right into my main tank it's been a month now they look great the tanks been fine but i'm concerned where you mentioned parasites - i have heard of clowns having interal parasites cause they are wild caught - mine are very active and look great shoul i be concerned here or woul i have already experienced problems and if you think i shoul medicate what shoul i use? the only thing i can think of that i saw in my tank that was abnormal were some 1/4 of inch long white worms wiggling in the water the other night i was told they are non parasitic nematodes or something though my fish ate them n i havent had any since and i've cut back on feeding - thanks!!!

[OrionGirl]

BBN--4 babies should be fine in your tank. Be prepared to move them to a larger tank eventually, but with 4, they will be social and happy. Just keep in mind that 6-9 inches is average, and they can get much larger if kept in a healthy tank. The increased bio-load will require more work from you--more water changes, etc. If you can't increase the number of water changes you perform, then don't add them. Otherwise, the clowns shouldn't cause any problems with your other fish.

LMB--Since they are in your main tank, I hesitate to advise medicating. Clowns really do need to be quarantined, IMO, since the infection rate is so high. Since that option is gone, I would just stay on top of water parameters, and maybe give the garlic a try. Garlic is said to get rid of internal parasites, and while this is not a proven fact, it won't hurt the fish and may help them. If conditions dip, a subclinical infection could turn clinical, requiring treatment, so be prepared and monitor the fish closely for any sign of parasites.

[TwoTankAmin]

Clowns of all sizes get alnong together pretty well. I have seen tanks where the clowns ranged in size from 1.5 inch to 11 inch.

In my 75 I have 3 clowns 5.5-6.5 inch (had 4 but lost one recently, sent for autopsy which showed nothing- sometimes fish do die fron heart attack or stroke). the 75 also hold 4 discus 3.5-5 inch, 9 sterbai corys, a dwarf albino bristlenose, a few otos and 3 SAEs (2 almosty 4 inch). The tank is heavily planted and well filtered (Eheim pro II 2026, AC 300 and Hot Mag w/ micron cart). The fish seem to be doing just fine and have all been in there since September (the tank has been running since Oct last year).

[TKOS]

I have always wondered, how exactly do you give garlic?

[OrionGirl]

Jack Watley sells a frozen prepared food that contains garlic--there are others, some flake foods and some pellets. Otherwise, you can buy garlic that's in water, and soak foods in this water prior to feeding. Most health stores sell this type of garlic--just don't get the stuff that's in oil.

[LMOUTHBASS]

what woul be signs of internal parasites? and how transmissable woul they be to other fish? also what type of garlic treatent coul i try? thanks for your help!
oh yeah one more q - how long woul it take for internal parasites to kill off a fish
my initial thoughts were if i did q these fish it woulve been for roughly 4 weeks and if they seemed healthy i woulve moved them into my main tank right about now - but since they have been in my main tank for 4 weeks or so now and seem perfectly fine shoul i just assume i got lucky here and they are ok? cause otherwise i pretty much woul never know if they were sick anyhow if they showed no illness while in q
thanks!!!

[OrionGirl]

Feeding the garlic as above would help. Parasite infections do not always have visible signs. ich is well known for 'just showing up' in a tank after some stress event--leading to the myth that ich is always in all tanks. The reason it may seem this way is that fish are very capable of handling a very low level of infection without problem. Think of it as getting a splinter. You don't act sick and quit eating because of one splinter. If you're covered in splinters from head to toe, it will cause a change in behavior and serious problems, right? Same thing for fish. One or two parasites withing their gills is not enough to cause serious health issues. However--in an aquarium, a low level of infestation can quickly explode into a clinical infection--meaning one with the commonly identified symptoms and white external spots--with any stress. Parasites in general are infectious within conspecifics. Meaning--the ich parasite must have a fish to attach to to complete it's life cycle, but any fish at all will do, so it is highly transmissable. Some parasites (though only a few common to aquarium fish) require a very specific host, so are not as easily transmissable.

This is why quarantining fish is such a good tool--and why some species will always be treated before I introduce them into a show tank. Puffers and clowns are well known for having parasite infections, and treatment before introduction makes sense.

[LMOUTHBASS]

i certainly agree with you about quaranting fish i now refuse to not q fish first this was a mental blunder due to my over excitement of these little guys!!! i now q everything!
I'm not concerned with ich i can kill that and haven't seen any signs of it i am horrified about thinking of internal parasites what types might be hiding in my clowns?
do you think i shoul treat my 55 for internal parasites just in case? with internal parasites are there symptoms?
thanks again lmb

[OrionGirl]

Low level infections usually don't have noticable symptoms. A bit on the thin side, slightly less active--it just depends on the fish. With clowns, I think the accepted standard is to assume they are infested. In a community setting, i think potassium permagrate is used with good results. Check wetmanNY's page for specifics--I've never had a parasite infestation other than ick in any of my fish, so can't really provide good advice other than what I've culled from others experience. Sorry.

[SayersWeb]

BTW.... This may sound funny..... but....

How do you know it died? Apparently Clown Loaches are known for fainting spells. They look dead, lying on their side and not moving, but after some hours will suddenly wake.

I think I made a dreadful mistake recently because I did not know about this. One of my Clown Loaches (about 6" long) died. I pulled it from the tank and flushed it. The water quality was fine, did not see any problems on it's body, all other fish were ok.

The next day I was rushing around late for an appointment and on the way out the door I noticed the other Clown Loach was dead. Decided it would have to wait until I got home. When I did return he was swimming around just fine. I got this awful feeling and started searching on the web. Sure enough, it turns out that Clown Loaches can have fainting spells, so the first one I flushed was probably just fine. :sad

I will not flush another Clown Loach until I see it physically decomposing!

[LMOUTHBASS]

now i'm worried two of my three loaches are a little thin not terribly but just doesn't seem like their gaining any weight the other one is plump and looks to be growing - if they got something they shoul be kicking the bucket soon ? shoul i worry about them or just leave them be for now?

[OrionGirl]

Clowns will wake up if disturbed--if you grabbed the fish in a net and pulled it out of the water and it didn't twith and flop, it was dead. I've never heard them called fainting spells, but often referred to as 'playing dead'. It is normal behavior, but doesn't extend to remaining motionless if disturbed and removed from water.

LMB--can't make the call for you. Parasites are not immediately fatal--in truth, parasites are seldom fatal in natural settings, unless killing the host is required for the parasite to get into it's next host. For single host parasites, killing the host kills the parasite, so isn't the normal tactic parasites will take. Animals can live a normal life span with parasites, and never suffer. They will seldom thrive like an uninfected individual, though.

[LMOUTHBASS]

i've decided i'm going to medicate - the thought of internal parasites disgusts me - hmmm how will i know when theyre dead though? will they spread through fish waste? how long shoul i treat for? also aren't clowns very sensitive to meds?
thanks for all your help

[sumoschro]

clowns are very sensitive to meds beause they are scaleless, but i dont know how sensitive they are to the medicine oriongirl was talking about

[Clownloach458]

Bigger clowns and smaller clowns should get along fine. The bigger ones may bully him a little( "go get me some food"). but he should be fine. ive gotta get some more for my 55g, ive only got 2 :s. christmas is coming soon though. planin on 3 or 4