CO2 for 75 gal and 150 gal

[nfinit1]

Tempest and DJ
I didnt know I would need 5 to 6 bottles to do CO2 for a 75 gal
Whew...so that means for my 150 gal....I really would need a pressurized CO2
Now I am having second thoughts about making my 150 a planted tank for discus....

It looks like I am going to have to research a serious CO2 setup now

[bobalston]

A suggestion for a good place to start researching pressurized co2 systems is my web site. Information on alternative types and sources for tanks, regulators, needle valves and a bit on co2 reactors.

http://members.cox.net/tulsaalstons/AquaticPlants.htm#High%20Pressure%20CO2

Enjoy.

Bob :cool:

[Jeremy S]

Pressurized CO2 really isn’t all that hard to figure out.

http://www.csd.net/~cgadd/aqua/diy_co2rig.htm has some good info on the equipment needed for pressurized systems.

http://www.csd.net/~cgadd/aqua/art_plant_co2chart.htm has some good info figuring out how much CO2 you have in your aquarium.

[125gJoe]

Read through this link...
I think it will help you.. :)

Link: Why CO2 ? (http://www.floridadriftwood.com/whyCo2.htm)

[djlen]

Once understood, CO2 injection becomes easy to use.
And not really as expensive to start up as most people anticipate.

The article Joe mentions is a good one.

Len

[DIYMatt]

Hmmm.....I agree that pressurized CO2 is definitely the way to go long term. BUT, I would like to dispute the fact that you would "need" 5-6 bottles for a 75. I currently use 2 bottles on a 75g with a KH of about 4.5 - 5 and MH lighting and my ph in the evening is 6.8-7.0. I could probably get it all from one bottle but it might be too variable. BUT, I will be switching this tank over to pressurized after I get the parts for christmas. It is more stable and cheaper long term.

BTW- indoor garderners are now using the DIY CO2 method in 5 gallon buckets for land plants and they need to produce at least 10x the CO2 we do for our aquariums.

A few ways to increase CO2 production from Yeast CO2 generators are:
1. Use Champagne yeast, this yeast purchased in a homebrew store handles a much higher percentage of alcohol than bread yeast. IME - it is the concentration of Alcohol that kills the yeast and stops CO2 production before lack of food in most peoples recipes. I use the whole packet per bottle. I have found that the usual 1/4-1/8 teaspoon is not enough, it takes too long to get going and is too variable. But, I haven't noticed a difference in using anything over a teaspoon either.
2. Use a larger bottle. I use 1 gallon juice bottles, the more liquid space the lower concetration of alcohol, more production, etc.
3. Modified Jello method. The jello acts as a regulator that provides pretty even production. I use Jello because it is chaeper than plain gelatin. This is what I have found: more jello to sugar=longer lasting. More sugar to yeast=equals more CO2 production. I use 2 packets of jello plus 4 cups of sugar per bottle in about 2/3 gallon of water. I make jello in 2/3 gallon of water with all the sugar in it. Then pour it in the bottle and let it sit over night. The next day it is kind of still liquid, but the gelatin is doing its job.
4. Rehydrate the yeast with yeast nutreint per the package instructions. This helps all the yeast stay alive and healthy before you add it to your jello mix. ask about the nutreint at the homebrew store. Just dumping the yeast in the mix with some water has produced very uneven results for me.
5. Heat the bottle, I personally don't do this but it would speed CO2 production.
6. Rotate bottles. I switch 1 of 2 weekly now. But, I have had individual bottles produce for well over a month, but past 3 weeks production can potentially be quite variable.

Pressurized IS the way to go long term. But, go ahead and try DIY first and see how it does. Its really not as difficult as it sounds. As with almost everything else in this hobby, there are no hard fast rules for CO2 production, its all about learning as you go. PM me and I will send you my exact recipe and technique if you like.

[DIYMatt]

Oh, I almost forgot. If your tap water is soft add 2 tablespoons of baking soda to your jello mix. Otherwise the waste produst from the reaction will become too acidic for the yeast to live in. I don't use it because my tap water has a carbonate hardness of about 15 degrees!

[carpguy]

Trying to DIY 225 gallons worth of tank seems massively impractical. You could pressurize it for less than $200. The sugar bill alone would be that high inside of a year! No fuss, no muss, no kitchen drudgery…

DIYMatt has some good tips and advices on improving DIY production. I was inspired last Spring to do some research into yeast to complement a series of tests that Anonapersona was logging at another board. Anona got into testing different recipes and setups and would be a good person to consult on that sort of thing.

Just to square up some of DIYMatt's points…
1) Champagne Yeast is a better yeast. The alcohol tolerance is slightly greater than bread yeast (which is also the other wine yeast) — without finding my notes, I think its 18% vs. 16%. I think people get better results with it partially because its treated a little better than the sauce at the corner market. A hot day in the back of a truck can take out a whole paletteful. So can six months sitting in a warehouse. Fresh and well treated are important. Use wine shop yeast if you can find it or order it off the web. Champagne yeast is preferrable.
1.a) Yeast can reproduce itself like mad given the right enviroment. A lot of the yeast in a packet is going to be dead. The viable yeast can double its population overnight. Trying too hard to economize can lead to too small of an initial population and a slow uneven start. Adding a lot of yeast is going to lead to diminishing returns. Matt is probably right on the money.
2) I'm not sure how critical surface area is, but agree with volume. I used a gallon wine jug with a tapped rubber cork. Juice bottles, unlike soda bottles, aren't necessarily designed to keep a gas tight seal on a carbonated beverage, so keep an eye out for leaks.
3) Jello method is just a good idea… makes perfect sense.
4) I used the yeast nutrient. Don't know how much it helped but it was cheap enough and seemed worth it. I also found a recipe at a winemaking site for creating a starter culture… a cup of water at about 105 dF (bathwater hot) a tablespoon of sugar and a pinch of baking soda (baking powder is baking soda plus some other stuff and should also work). After a few hours it should be bubbling and giving off a yeasty bread dough odor. If its not that packet was dead and you don't need to blow a couple of days and a full mix finding that out. If its good it'll provide a nice strong start to your mix.
5) Heating the bottle will speed production but also shorten the lifespan of the mix. A yeast bottle is also a great enviroment for bacteria, which can outcompete the yeast given nice warm conditions. Yeast has the advantage from about the mid 70s down into the 50s. I don't personally recommend using heat for a boost. Winemakers favor cellars for just this reason.
6) There's a definite curve to the yeast production. Rotating bottles will help flatten it out and is a good idea.
7) Yeast are extremely acid tolerant. During winemaking pHs can get down to about 3. They use the baking soda (or powder) to build their shells and I'd add some to just about any water, not just overly soft stuff. The white slurry that builds up at the bottom of the bottle is largely yeast skeletons and its not a bad idea to reserve it from one bottle to the next.

But it was too much work for me. Love that little pressurized bottle sitting in the corner. :D I check the guage every few weeks. Still the same. :p

[Tempest]

I use the DIY CO2 for my 55 gallon. I've used it now for about a year and a half but it took a while to get it down to the least work. I use two 2 liter bottles and keep them in a bucket of water with a 50 watt heater set at 80 F. I replace one bottle a week and seem to get a fairly decent production with a small souped up 24 hours on each new bottle. My kh is 8 and the ph will vary from 6.8 to 7.1... I had hoped to changeover to pressurized soon but finances haven't allowed for the initial investment yet. :)

[DIYMatt]

Sorry about that, I forgot the title of the post. For a 75 AND a 150, I wouldn't bother with the DIY CO2 either. Way too much work to save less than $200 of start up cost. I just had an issue with saying you NEED 5-6 bottles to produce enough CO2 for a 75 gallon tank.

Thanks for the clarification Carpguy! Just one question on the yeast, my homebrew store (which is alos an indoor gardening shop:)) lists the alcohol tolerances of their yeasts and they vary from 12%-18% depending on strain. Most of the champagne yeasts are listed at 16%. What I use is EC 1118 from Lalvin and it is the only one listed at 18% at that store. The guys there claim that what they call "bread yeast" is only tolerant of about 10% alcohol, but they have no data to back it up. But, it does seem to back up my informal experiments a couple years back with non-jello recipes. Now that I use the jello method I can't get an accurate reading on alcohol content so I don't know for sure.

Anyways pressurized CO2 IS the way to go.