What I am doing wrong?

[Phyroath]

Hi everyone!

I have been away from AC for a while- trying to get everything for my tank. I have moved everything to my 65g tank as I do not have much time to maintain 2 tanks. Here is my setup:

Light: 156w T5HO 12,000K
CO2: Pressurized CO2 with 2 bubbles/second
Fert: PMDD Premix / wondergrow root tab
Substrate: River gravel mix with laterite.
Filter: Boyu 32w canister Filter with UV

Seem like I am doing right this time but since I set it up 3 weeks ago, my plants stop growing. My Java moss I tied to drift wood (received one day before I setup my tank) look brown though small amount turn dark green)

My all in one test strip shows PH at 6.8, KH 4, NO2 and NO3 at the correct level while my drop checker shows green all the time.

Kind help!

[seetharam]

In my experience, The ideal color temp for growing aquatic plants is between 6500K and 8000K. You say your lights are 12000K .... i dont think this color temp is good to grow aquatic plants.

This is the only flaw i find in your setup, rest everything looks fine.

[Phyroath]

I did checked the light and it said for reef and freshwater. I don't know if this is the case.

[seetharam]

What kind of light does it give out? White Light?

[Phyroath]

It is a daylight bulbs. The set includes 4 x 39w with individual reflector and separate switch. I ordered this from Mizuworld.com in Singapore. It is Illummax 3ft professional.

Should I go with only 2x39w?
My Photoperiod is just 7.5 hrs a day. 6hrs in the morning and 1.5 hrs in the evening.

[Carla G]

I think you might go better with more hours of light, at least 12.

Try a lower K level in a couple of your tubes, see if it helps. I suspect it would.

[coach_z]

I did checked the light and it said for reef and freshwater. I don't know if this is the case.
it says reef and freshwater. it does not say ;reef and plants;.

12000K is better for corals and such and not for plants.
you want 6700k for plants

it might be cheaper to return your light and get a new one than to buy new bulbs. also at ~2.5wpg you are going to get algae if not properly maintained. so you can go for something that would get you closer to 2wpg

just my .02
-chris

[phanmc]

The K rating isn't the problem.

Define correct level of NO3, 5-15ppm? What is your dosing schedule? PMDD premixes usually leave out phosphates, are you adding any?

[Phyroath]

Hi Phannmc, I do not add any Phosphate on top of that except the root tab - currently trying to order some phosphate. I feel not good if the K rating is too high for plants however I heard people use metal halide up to 12,000k without problem. I would be much more relief if it is not the case. Will have picture soon.

[leocom2000]

Metal H. lamp have a wider spectrum than fluorescent. Also, it has a higher lumen output. You can't really compare those two. If your light has anough light in the right spectrum, even if it is rated at 12K, you should be fine. However, if you are not sure, then try replacing it with something elese temporarily and observe the changes.
There are, of cause, other variables to consider...lets see the pics.

[Riiz]

The light sounds fine, the K rating is to determine what looks good to the human eye, the bulbs package should show a spectrum and if it has good amounts of light in the red/blue ends, it should be ok.

The issues I would look at are, how are you determing proper CO2 levels? And second, what are you're nutrient levels at, phosphate and nitrate?

[Phyroath]

Thanks everyone! Riiz, it is a hard question for me. I only basd on JBJ CO2 Indicator attached inside a tank for CO2 and PH) and for NO3 and NO2 with my JBL 5 in 1 test kit (NO2, NO3, GH, PH and KH). The issue is with Phosphate that i don't have any clue. I get my CO2 into a tank through this reactor.

[Canuck]

I expect your problem is more nutrient related than light. I think alot of people overestimate the importance of K, lots of people have grown plants with cool white (that are 2100K). Make sure your nitrate is in the 5-15 range, phosphate around 1, and don't be worried about being on the generous side with the traces. It's really difficult to give you a definitive answer without your dosing regimen and current nutrient levels. CO2 sounds like it might be alright but we don't know what your pH level is at equilibrium so that is just a guess. I don't think the bubbles per second means much by the time current and difference in reactors is taken into account.

[coach_z]

How many people saying that 12,000K is fine for the lights actually use 12,000K lights in their planted tank. i bet all of you use 5500-10000.

optimum light for plants is between 600-675nm (see 1st image below...a 6700K bulb)
a 12,000K T5-HO bulb is bulb emits between 400-500nm (see 2nd image below)
http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/Aquarium_Lighting.html

http://www.peteducation.com/article.cfm?c=16+2151&aid=2689
http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/lighting/37501-best-kelvin-rating-plant-growth.html
http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/lighting/240-what-temp-best-kelvin.html


im not saying that you cannot use a 12,000K bulb i am just going to say that it is extremely inefficient to use a 12,000K bulb.http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/images/graphics/par3.jpg (http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/Aquarium_Lighting.html)

http://www.hellolights.com/ProductImages/T5_aquablue.jpg

[DSR]

The 12000k lighting is most likely going to be a limiting factor in the plant growth. it is pretty far into the blue end of the spectrum which is not used by plants in the photosynthetic process. That is why most authorities suggest a kelvin in the 6500-6700 range. A 10000k lamp would be better, but if you really want good growth then go with a 6700k light.

[Riiz]

Phyroath, I would suggest getting a drop checker, to determine if you're getting high enough levels of CO2. But in the mean time you could try increasing (very slowly, like over the course of a day) the bubble rate and see if the plants growth improves, but pay alot of attention to your fish, so they are not stressed.

Also a phosphate test kit would be really helpful too, API sells an inexpensive kit, and levels of 1-2ppm are good.

[phanmc]

How many people saying that 12,000K is fine for the lights actually use 12,000K lights in their planted tank. i bet all of you use 5500-10000.

I've used lights ranging from 4000k-18000k and 50/50 daylight actinics. Except for a few rare cases, I cannot tell a difference to plant growth.

I saw slightly slower growth with the 50/50 and the best growth came from a specific 5000k bulb.


The 12000k lighting is most likely going to be a limiting factor in the plant growth. it is pretty far into the blue end of the spectrum which is not used by plants in the photosynthetic process. That is why most authorities suggest a kelvin in the 6500-6700 range. A 10000k lamp would be better, but if you really want good growth then go with a 6700k light.

Plants do use the blue spectrum for photosynthesis. They use everything within the 400-700nm range, though they have slightly higher sensitivity to the blue and red spectrum.

People have been parroting the ideal color temp of 6500k because they think a light emitting that color must provide more of the full spectrum that plants need. This simply isn't true and if you have a PAR meter you can test for yourself.

[Phyroath]

Thanks everyone for your comments. I emailed the seller and they told me the light is a new concept. Riiz, I would try to increase the bubbles rate and will let you know the water parameter soon. Here are some pics of my setup.

[Phyroath]

I did w/c this afternoon. Start CO2 at 3 bubbles/s. My test strip shows the following:
PH:7.6
KH:6 degrees
GH:>7 degree range
NO2:0.5 mg/l
NO3:25 mg/l

[DSR]

Phanmc, thank you for the information. So the overwhelming weight of authority has simply got the whole idea wrong... ! that is so good to know. Tomorrow I will put some actinici lighting in my planted tank and some 6700K lighting in my reef tank... Man, I feel so liberated to know that the bulk of botanists have this whole photosynthesis thing wrong. I certiainly hope that they recognize your contribution... On a side note, any ideas on this whole gravity thing....? I am tired of dropping stuff... so if you could rewrite that natural law as well I would certainly appreciate it.

[Riiz]

Dsr, Phan agreed with you and others in his last post, he stated he's used 50/50 and plants grew but he had the best results with 5k, which is close to what your arguing about.

I've personally used 50/50 lighing in a low light tank that is stocked with Russian purple guppies, but that is more for aestestics than anything else, but the plants still grow.

In the end the Kelvin rating is not really meant to determine the growing quality of a lamp, its just meant to tell a consumer what the light will like when in use. For example, GE 9325K PC bulbs should near the blue/white end, but produce some of the best reds and are nowhere near the lower end of the kelvin range, where red should be.

[DSR]

whoops. Sorry. But I have read enough of those post advising newcomers that K rating doesn't mean anything. It is frustrating. K does correspond, roughly to NM rating and we should be trying to simplify things rather than complicate them unnecessarily. (and, PHan is dead wrong on the NM rating as well... which is what has got my dander up)> I may be relatively new to this hobby... but I do copious amounts of research.

Thanks for pointing out my misstep, RIIZ. I have two daughters and if I could find the MLP we would be in business. LOL.

Phan, not trying to be a jerk, but I really just don't agree with the advise your are sending out...and when your advise is potentially costing other newbies money... it is frustrating... YOu know as well as I do that K rating has a relation to PAR as well as NM. If not, then I would suggest some basic reading on light waves/temps.

[Phyroath]

So in my case, the issues are with nutrients and CO2 however I believe Java moss should do OK or it is being burnt by such light.

Here are what written on the bulb 'Odysea Daylight T5 36" Quad True Actinic 12000k' and that is all.

[phanmc]

whoops. Sorry. But I have read enough of those post advising newcomers that K rating doesn't mean anything. It is frustrating. K does correspond, roughly to NM rating and we should be trying to simplify things rather than complicate them unnecessarily. (and, PHan is dead wrong on the NM rating as well... which is what has got my dander up)> I may be relatively new to this hobby... but I do copious amounts of research.


Please tell me what I got wrong about the NM rating? That plants don't use wavelengths in the blue NM?

I'll give an example of why K rating is pretty meaningless. Take a look at this article:

http://www.aquabotanic.com/lightcompare.htm

Compare the following bulbs:

ADV850
TL950

The bulbs have pretty much the same specs, 32w 5000k made by the same manufacturer. The ADV850 is comparable to some metal halides on a per watt basis, the TL950 is one of the worst performers.

Compare the ADV850 to the popular 9325K GE Fresh & Salt Aquaray and the ADV850 still outperforms it.

Lets take a look at the fabled ideal K, 6500k-6700k. The GE SPX65 is 6500k and the PC6700 is 6700k, both perform pretty well but are still not comparable to the ADV850.

Also take a look at the Hagen Glo series. The Power Glo is 18000k, about the middle of the pack in terms of performance. The Sun Glo is 4000k, looks totally different visually but performs about the same. The Flora Glo is 2800k which most people would balk at using, yet it's only slightly weaker.