Anyone messed with the High Intensity 3W LED's?

[Arkangel77]

I was wondering if anyone here had tryed these in there tank and what was the outcome?

Something like this http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=280346782433&_trkparms=tab%3DWatching Type of LED????????

They look interesting!

Arkangel77

[leocom2000]

Don't buy it from there. Check this, it is cheaper and more specs:
http://www.mouser.com/Search/ProductDetail.aspx?qs=sGAEpiMZZMvbrKVFTEWTlv4khIGb ALR38xIHvHBB%2fU0%3d

I have been thinking to try High power LEDs, but I am busy with school-work now.
Don't forget that connecting a number of them to a single supply will require balancing and current limiting circuit.

[Riiz]

I wouldnt touch LEDs yet, LEDs are still not at the ease and price that T5HO offers. Plus these kits on ebay are incomplete and need a driver (power supply) before they can be used on aquarium.

[Arkangel77]

Thanks for the link, I am going to have to do some digging. I wish there was a How To Link somewhere and there may be - I gota look. I am Verry intrested in doing a row of these on my tank and seing how they look. I have seen other posts about it and the results were impresive! I guesss its time to use that search function again - LOL:wall:

[Riiz]

There are some good resources and build threads on http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc and http://www.plantedtank.net/forums, might want to try there too.

Also search for threads by Corykeeper, he used to preach LED lighting quite a bit.

[Arkangel77]

I read threw this one http://www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=264895 (http://www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=264895) , I need How to For Dummies - LOL. All the links in that thread are not working and that dont help me ether. I need to kinda see the part to try and understand it. I guess I am tired and that may be part of my problem LOL. I am concerned about the heat also. I have cooling fans but stoped using them once I swapped over to regular LED lights. These High Power LEDs intrest me because theye are SO bright!

[chonhzilla]

The thread below should be a good one for this subject..

http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/diy/84212-designing-building-led-fixture.html

[kanvas]

Don't buy it from there. Check this, it is cheaper and more specs:
http://www.mouser.com/Search/ProductDetail.aspx?qs=sGAEpiMZZMvbrKVFTEWTlv4khIGb ALR38xIHvHBB%2fU0%3d

Are you mistaken? Ebay has 5 for $13 meaning $2.60 each
Mouser has them for $7.13 if you buy 100 or more.
I don't see how that's cheaper.
Quality of LEDs isn't that different "good" or "bad" like other electronic if you find some that have the intensity and color you want, buy the cheapest one available.

Here's a expriment comparing the grow rate if plant under LED and PC light for those who want to read (7x1watt Luxeons vs 1x7watt PC (Azoo palm light))
http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/diy-aquarium-projects/1009-diy-led-lighting-via-luxeon-stars.html
For those who don't wanna read, it's summarize to this: the growth is quite close with LED has a little better growth.

[7itanium]

LEDs are really cool.. and will work well

just plan on spending a lot of cash to get them up and running

[kanvas]

And yes LED is current a little on the expensive side if you buy them pre-fab.
If you have some time, soldering skill and a local surplus electronic store, a LED lighting system for a 55G will be around $150.

[Arkangel77]

I got the time and the ability but I get Fuzzy when they talk about the power supply and controllers and calculations and creation of circuit boards and WOOOOOH!

I need a more plug and play assembly before I think I can tackle it. I dont mind paying for what I want and I dont mind the assemble at all. I am skilled and enjoy DIY projects. I have no problem tackling anyhyting I understand. I guess I just dont understand the power supply part of these things.

I read threw manny posts including some of the ones linked here. It seems complex or maybe I am missing something?????

[kanvas]

I read threw manny posts including some of the ones linked here. It seems complex or maybe I am missing something?????

Basically it's this: LED require a constant current to operate. There're 3 way to do this:
1. resistor easy but really inefficient
2. switching voltage efficient but require a lot of skill
3. current regulator (LED driver)
LED driver is available on ebay for about $10-$20 each
Each driver can drive 1-5 high power LEDs in series depend on the input voltage into the driver. (just sum up all the voltage drop for yout LED string and you get your total voltage, example: 3 LED with 3.3 volt drop each would require at least a 3 x 3.3 = 9.9 volt)

In short you'll need:
LEDs
drivers (1 for every 4-5 LEDs)
DC supply (10-20volt output with the max wattage as you need---10 3w LEDs means 30w total plus a few more watts for the drivers)
Heat sinks for LEDs (they do get quite warm especially with the 3w and above)
Reflectors??? maybe if you have some exatra laying around but LED are directional light so there're not much to reflect

Hope that clear up some murky stuff
K

[Izzy2]

check out this link. It gives some more details on the project.
I found it in another thread on LEDs.

http://www.greenneedle.co.uk/LED1.html

[Arkangel77]

That does clear it up - thank you - I need to do some digging and see what I come up with. Thank you all

[Arkangel77]

WELL It looks like this http://cgi.ebay.com/LED-Driver-Switching-Power-Supply-Transformer-MR16-12-V_W0QQitemZ200239928065QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_Defau ltDomain_0?hash=item2e9f3ad301&_trksid=p3286.m20.l1116 says it s a "LED Driver Switching Power Supply Transformer" It has an output of 12V & 15 Watts. SO Would I be correct in assuming you could run four 3 watt LED's off of one of these Drivers?

Perhapse some like these? http://cgi.ebay.com/5pcs-3Watt-White-High-Power-led-95-110-Lumen-NEW_W0QQitemZ180366696487QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_Def aultDomain_0?hash=item29feb16027&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=65%3A12%7C66%3A2%7C39%3A1%7C72%3A1205%7C 240%3A1318%7C301%3A1%7C293%3A1%7C294%3A50

I am sure I am just being thick but how does the wattage play into all this? I saw drivers on ebay listed that put out LESS wattage than 15. This one only putts out 5 watts http://cgi.ebay.com/LED-Driver-Switching-Power-Supply-Transformer-5Watt-12V_W0QQitemZ390045352747QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_Def aultDomain_0?hash=item5ad083c32b&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=65%3A12%7C66%3A2%7C39%3A1%7C72%3A1205%7C 240%3A1318%7C301%3A1%7C293%3A1%7C294%3A50

[Ramphonic]

I used 2 of these blue leds for my moonlights. http://www.oznium.com/prewired-superflux

I have the 2 running off an old cell phone charger (like 5 volts) which dims them out but its fine for my application. They are very bright with 12 volts as I used some in my fiances car too.

That company sells the 12 volt adapters too as people use them for accent lighting in their house etc. http://www.oznium.com/ac-adapter

[thesixis]

Is anybody useing them on larger tanks (75)?

[kanvas]

WELL It looks like this http://cgi.ebay.com/LED-Driver-Switching-Power-Supply-Transformer-MR16-12-V_W0QQitemZ200239928065QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_Defau ltDomain_0?hash=item2e9f3ad301&_trksid=p3286.m20.l1116 says it s a "LED Driver Switching Power Supply Transformer" It has an output of 12V & 15 Watts. SO Would I be correct in assuming you could run four 3 watt LED's off of one of these Drivers?


Those are power Supply, you will need one of those, they convert household outlet AC to DC that the driver use.

Drivers are these things:
http://cgi.ebay.com/3W-LED-Driver-for-Luxeon-White-Green-Blue_W0QQitemZ350212758226QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_De faultDomain_0?hash=item518a4e9ad2&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=65%3A12|66%3A2|39%3A1|72%3A1205|240%3A13 18|301%3A1|293%3A1|294%3A50

[kanvas]

Perhapse some like these? http://cgi.ebay.com/5pcs-3Watt-White-High-Power-led-95-110-Lumen-NEW_W0QQitemZ180366696487QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_Def aultDomain_0?hash=item29feb16027&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=65%3A12%7C66%3A2%7C39%3A1%7C72%3A1205%7C 240%3A1318%7C301%3A1%7C293%3A1%7C294%3A50


Those are 3W LEDs, you can use them, they're very bright.
I think any white LED is around 5000K too 7000K
Warm white is 3000-5000K

[kanvas]

I am sure I am just being thick but how does the wattage play into all this? I saw drivers on ebay listed that put out LESS wattage than 15. This one only putts out 5 watts http://cgi.ebay.com/LED-Driver-Switching-Power-Supply-Transformer-5Watt-12V_W0QQitemZ390045352747QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_Def aultDomain_0?hash=item5ad083c32b&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=65%3A12%7C66%3A2%7C39%3A1%7C72%3A1205%7C 240%3A1318%7C301%3A1%7C293%3A1%7C294%3A50

DC power supply need to supply enough wattage to keep every thing running at normal output.
if you use 10 x 3w LEDs, then you'll need something minimum a 35W DC supply (extra 5W for the drivers)

if you use a 5w supply, and string 10w worth of LEDs on it, depend on the supply and driver you have, they maybe barely on or not on at all

[kanvas]

Is anybody useing them on larger tanks (75)?
Plenty of people use them for large tank (even 125g and larger) but they get expensive (driver are expensive, high wattage DC supply is expensive too)

[Arkangel77]

So I guess thoes 15 Watt Drivers would work well for 3 - 3W bullbs and might be iffy on 4. SO it would seem you would need a power supplie and a Driver for every 3 to 4 Bulbs assuming you were going to use the 3W Bulbs and the 15W power supplies. Well I think I am starting to get it. LOL Thank you all for your help in bumbing this down for me - LOL.

Arkangel77

[seacowboy]

There are drivers on the market which allow you to wire up more than 3-4 LEDs. I am currently waiting on a Meanwell-60-48P driver which according to the data sheet: http://www.meanwell.com/search/ELN-60/ELN-60-spec.pdf has an output of 48V from 0-1.3A. This will allow you to string up to 12-13 LEDs in series together. Should be getting it and my LEDs sometime this week.

[kanvas]

There are drivers on the market which allow you to wire up more than 3-4 LEDs. I am currently waiting on a Meanwell-60-48P driver which according to the data sheet: http://www.meanwell.com/search/ELN-60/ELN-60-spec.pdf has an output of 48V from 0-1.3A. This will allow you to string up to 12-13 LEDs in series together. Should be getting it and my LEDs sometime this week.

Yes but as i said, This is NOT current drivers, these are switching power supply.
unless you use the exact number to LED as they "recommended" you will not get the result you want. That's why they have resistor in their schematic, to limit current through LEDs so that you don't blow them. Nothing bad with resistor beside they're inefficient. (that's why i think current drivers are better)

That said, I have only 5 x 3x LED runnings in series from a 15V 0.7A Switching power supply straight without drivers.

[thesixis]

Plenty of people use them for large tank (even 125g and larger) but they get expensive (driver are expensive, high wattage DC supply is expensive too)
I should have said "if anybody is using them on large tanks, how are the doing? and how much do they cost to run?

[phanmc]

The initial cost is high but the long term costs are low, probably lower than fluorescents. The Philips LEDs are supposed to last for 50,000 hours with minimal drop in light output if cooled properly. Leave your lights on for 12 hrs a day and that will roughly come to over 10 yrs before you have to switch them out. You'll likely need to use less wattage than fluorescents to achieve the same light level, so some small savings there on the electricity bill.

Probably not a big issue in freshwater tanks, LEDs don't generate downward heat so it doesn't heat up the tank, a big issue for metal halide users and those in hot climates.

I know one person lighting his tank with a large array over his 150g reef tank and its doing well for the past 6 months.

[Arkangel77]

I got LED Tubes right now. I like them lots but miss the shimmer. There is also the COOL factor of these Hight Output LED's. I love to tinker so I guess this is a large scale project that will take some time to put together. Right now I have 1300 regular LED's over my tank (180 Gallon) LOL. It looks GOOD!

Arkangel77

[kanvas]

I should have said "if anybody is using them on large tanks, how are the doing? and how much do they cost to run?

I don't know the exact cost (I haven't done anything major) but say for a 75g you'll need
30 LEDs = $100 (this maybe over kill. And you may to space LEDs about 6" from each other)
8 drivers = $100,
2 x 19V 63W supply = $50
fans = $20,
heat sink = $10
thermal glue = $20

So you'll be running about $300 plus extra (but maybe cheaper if you can find surplus or whole sale store).
Once up and running they use about 1/3 the electricity as "equivalently-bright" fluorescent light.
BTW, LEDs do make alot of shimmering effect. And you can mix different colors for a nicer looks

[Arkangel77]

BTW, LEDs do make alot of shimmering effect. And you can mix different colors for a nicer looks

I was under the impresion from some of the other threads I had read that they did?

ALSO - Just FYI = I got about $160 os so worth of LED's in my current set up. I may put 2 more tubes in there which would push the price up another $40 or so But It seems like OVERKILL - so We will see?


Arkangel77

[kanvas]

I was under the impresion from some of the other threads I had read that they did?

ALSO - Just FYI = I got about $160 os so worth of LED's in my current set up. I may put 2 more tubes in there which would push the price up another $40 or so But It seems like OVERKILL - so We will see?


Arkangel77
LOL maybe, you know the actual total watt of your LEDs?

[Arkangel77]

WELL I dont have any testing to back this up - I can only go off the info I got from the supplier?

I have 6 tubes and each tube claims to put out "100 WATTS OF LIGHT" & "697 Lumens". My Tubes are three feeet long each. The thing is the intesnsity is verry sensative to the incomming voltage! Before I installed my power convertes (from 110 to 80V) the tubes were CRAZY bright - BUT they would burn out. Now I have the converters on there they are consistent and not burning out but less intense.

If I was to go strictly off the Manufacturers info I would say 600 watts output.

However my gutt tells me is probably more like 400 to 500 ish???? I may be WAY off????

About the shimmer - they less tottal # of bulbs you have the more of that shimmer affect you seem to get (the bulbs must be intense!). But when you start ussing thousands as I have in my current set up - you seem to loose the shimmer. The proof of this is look at your tank with just the MOON led's on at night. I have about 20 and you can see that the shimmer is noticible. However during the day when I got 1300+ LEDs going the shimmer is barley if at all noticible. I think you can see that shimmer affect from most any bulb EXCEPT a florecent.

Arkangel77

[kanvas]

Well, the simmering effect is the result from the bending of originally parallel light leaving dark spots (shadow) at the bottom. What you said about having alot of LEDs kill the shimmering is true. It works the same way as the emergency's operating light they have in hospital. They have many lights shining drom different angles so... no shadows. Fluorescent and compact fluorescent is too long and often has more than 1 bulb there for the light comes from different angles thus no shimmering. Same with your thoundsand of LEDs
Sorry for the long lecture i tend to blah on :D
But that's why I prefer few high intensity LEDs with spacing between them. I basically have a fluorescent as base lighting then LEDs as additional. So the tank wouldn't look like a opera stage with spot lights.

[Arkangel77]

I understand - I was considering a "ROW" Of high output LEDs in addition to my LED tubes. I love that Shimmering affect and was thinking I might be able to create it with a few HO LEDs. It seems like what’s needed has bin Identified. Now all I need is to start purchasing parts and start assembling. My hesitation is the heat. I originally got rid on my H.I. Fluorescents because of the heat! I am concerned about how much heat the H.O. LEDs will produce as I have a fully enclosed wooden canopy. I guess I just need to Give it a try and see what Happens? I am nervous about it though.:uhoh:

Arkangel77

[thesixis]

Hey Arkangel77
Could you please post the site that you purchased the led tubes from, I would like to read about them. Thanks

[Arkangel77]

Well it was Ebay but I can link the ADD if you like.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&item=230339681841

Dave at Houston Aquarium Warehouse is the one that recomended these to me.

Arkangel77

[vmahaffe]

Well it was Ebay but I can link the ADD if you like.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&item=230339681841

Dave at Houston Aquarium Warehouse is the one that recomended these to me.

Arkangel77
Dave or Dan?

[Arkangel77]

Dave or Dan?

I get Names messed up so Maybe it was Dan!!!!

Arkangel77:hitting:

[thesixis]

Thanks for the info.

[vmahaffe]

I get Names messed up so Maybe it was Dan!!!!

Arkangel77:hitting:
I know Dan well. I should give him a call and talk to him. He is the one who got me started in the right direction on plants. Very smart guy!