New Setup (10 Gal.)..Comments/Suggestions

[ACD74131]

Hello Everyone. I am just starting out with a new fresh water aquarium. I am in a small apartment (with a cat, will this be a problem?) and I went with a 10 gallon setup. I also have picked up the following equipment...

Rena Air Pump Model 50, attached to a 5" flat air stone.
Tronic Heater 7" 50 Watt.
Whisper® 10 Power Filter (came with the tank).
Full Hood with 20" Fluorescent Bulb.
Assorted Rocks, Plants (Plastic), and Decorations.

Now...For the last 3-4 days I have done nothing but browse, read just about every message here as well as other web sites, read reviews on equipment, etc... and have come up what I think is the right plan.

Before I go into anything else - Should I question the quality of the power filter? Should I move to something else say a Aqua Clear or something else?

On the equipment side of things - Looking good so far?

Thanks All.

[OrionGirl]

I've used Whispers before, and they are not too bad. Most are fairly reliable, and you can modify the filter media away from using the cartridges easily. I use filter floss, and just fill the area used to hold the cartridges with the floss. This makes it cheap and easy to maintain good mechanical and biological filtration. If it fails on you, you can certainly upgrade, and with the filter floos in there, you can just transfer the media into pretty much any other power HOB.

The other items look good. Pick up a good thermometer to monitor temp.

Any ideas for what fish you want?

As for having a cat--I have 2 cats, and around 400 gallons of tanks. The cats really like laying on top of some of the canopies, since the lights make it a nice warm spot for them. They will sit and watch a few of the fish--they have favorites, and ignore the rest. However, even with one open top tank, mine have never gone fishing. If you have a manx, or other water loving breed, you will want to have a secure cover, or they will play in the water, even if they don't fish.

[ACD74131]

I don't think he [cat] has the guts to jump all the way to the top, I purchased a metal tank stand which is about 4 feet high.

As far as fish go, I had a few ideas. This was going to be the 2nd part of my post, tank prep, and fish ideas.

Ram cichlid (Ramirezi)
Neon/Cardinal/Black Neon
White Clouds
Zebras/Cherry Barbs

Any other suggestions would be welcomed.

I like alot of color. I also like Congo Tetras but I don't have the room for them.

[TKOS]

I would forgo the white clouds if you want those other fish. White clouds are not tropical fish and do best in cooler waters. They won't show as much of their brilliant colours in too hot tropical waters, though they will survive.

Your fish stocking plan looks a little heavy for a 10 gallon. I keep a low to medium stocked tank and I have 5 white clouds and 3 cory catfish as an example. I don't knwo much about rams but I believe they need at least a 20 gallon tank to be truely happy.

I would personally stick with 2 types of fish, a bottom feeder type and a schooling type. Too many will be hard to maintain properly and will look messy.

A good easy choice for a colourful fish is a platy or sword tail. Great little guys with a variety of colours.


As for the tank, it all looks good. I would do what Oriongirl says and replace the filter cartridge with filter floss or sponges. Carbon isn't really necessary and I have never run it in my tanks. I have that same whisper filter on one tank and it works fine. One thing to do is (unless it is already wet) cut the back open and pour out the carbon, then stuff the sack with polyester floss. Easy to clean and reuse. Just rinse it out when doing water changes and never buy a new catridge. Saves lots of money.

[ACD74131]

My mistake, sorry for the confusion. I was not going to place all those in a 10 gallon tank. Ill go into fish selection in the next day or so.

I am a bit unclear about the whole filter thing here. What else (if anything) is in these filter "Bio-Bags"?.

[TKOS]

Thank goodness about the fish selection.

Anway back tot he filter. The whisper filter has a catridge that has a black plastic frame and some polyester woven material. Inside that little bag is some granuals of carbon. I had already wetted my catridge and the carbon just made a mess when I tried to cut it out, so I have used sponges instead. But if the cartridge is still dry you can make a slit in it and get all of that carbon out then stuff the bag with filter floss.

[ACD74131]

Ahhh! Much clearer now. I am going to head to lfs to pick up some of the following...

Prime
Bio-Spira
Filter Floss (Any Specific or just any filter floss)
Test Kit - Any suggestions on a complete test kit, or what kind of test kit to get?

Also I am sitting here and tank location just hit me, it's in a living room and across from it is a window and has blinds on it, 99% of the time blinds are closed - will this pose a possible algae issue?

Another question - why is there carbon in these filter bags? I thought it was to keep the water clean and/or clear? If I take the carbon out won't the water become cloudy?

[OrionGirl]

Direct light only causes problems when a) there are adequate nutrients for algae to take off and b) if it's intense enough to raise the temperature.

As for carbon--it does remove some dissolved organics from the water. This mechanical filtration should not be needed for a healthy tank--nutrients are easily controlled and removed by appropriate feeding and cleaning of the tank. Also, think of carbon like a sponge--it can only take up so much. Depending on the tank, this can mean the carbon is 'used up' within 2-3 days, or 1-2 weeks. Once it reaches this saturation point, it ceases to chemically filter. It does act as a bed for bacteria, but since there are so many options for hosting bacteria, it is not needed in this fashion.

I use carbon only for removing tannins, and medications (which are seldom used!).

[TKOS]

Any filter floss will do, it should be made of polyester and a big bag will be very cheap. Make sure to keep the biospira cold until you use it or the bacteria will die.

My parents tank is across the room from a huge picture window and the algae is kept to a minimum.

JUst get in the habbit of doing a weekly water change. If you test the water right before you change it and all readings are good then you are doing a good job. Never let you tank get to the point where you "have" to change it and your problems will be kept to a minimum.

I believe Hagen makes a good test kits, but alas I do not have a full one yet. Soon I will get one. For now I do weekly or twice weekly water changes to make sure everything is up to snuff.

[ACD74131]

Ok...

I can't find Bio-Spira anywhere around a 50 mile radius.

Someone suggested Stress Zyme as a good alternative...

Any thoughts... ?

[TKOS]

Biospira is the only proven bacteria product that I know of. If you can't find it then you will have to do either a fishless or fishy cycle. There is a sticky on cycling fish tanks in the Newbie forum. Very good information in there. Otherwise do a search in the forums for cycling and you will have hundreds of hits I am sure.

The only thing you need to add to your water at the beginning is a good dechlorinator that will remove chlorine and chloramines. These are poisonous to your fish and easy to remove.

As to whether Stress Zyme does nothing or does harm I don't know. I figure it doesn't really do much of anything. People do say they like it but I am sure that proper water conditioning and keeping the levels of ammonia and nitrite in the water as close to zero are the best things that you can do.

[ACD74131]

Ok. Here is an update....

I have had the tank up and running for about 3 days now, I did some testing of the water. First off, I used a capfull of Prime and then two tsp. of the Stress Zyme, for the life of me I could not find Bio-Spira on Long Island (If anyone know of a dealer - please let me know).

I picked up this test kit that tests for Freshwater pH, High Range pH, Ammonia, Nitrite, and General & Carbonate Hardness...

Here are the readings so far...

Ammonia - .5 to 1.0
Nitrite - 0 ppm
Freshwater ph - 7.6

I am guessing that a water change should happen, if so how much?

The water is a tiny bit cloudy, and how do I bring the 7.6 down to 7.0 ?

Thanks...

[Prometheus]

Originally posted by ACD74131
I picked up this test kit that tests for Freshwater pH, High Range pH, Ammonia, Nitrite, and General & Carbonate Hardness...

Here are the readings so far...

Ammonia - .5 to 1.0
Nitrite - 0 ppm
Freshwater ph - 7.6

I am guessing that a water change should happen, if so how much?

The water is a tiny bit cloudy, and how do I bring the 7.6 down to 7.0 ?

Thanks...

By readings the posts I would assume that no fish are in the tank yet...

If thats the case, then no need for water changes yet... the ammonia will drop to 0, then (or just before) you'll see a rise in nitrites, and finally ammonia and nitrite will read 0. Then your nitrates will kick in... (if you don't have a nitrate test kit yet, no rush goto www.bigals.com they seel one for 4.50 -costs 18 bucks at my LFS- that will give proper nitrate results vs. nitrate-nitrogen something or other it slips my mind at the moment... it maybe cheaper to buy it from big al (quick shipping too) even if you don't need to order anything else from them...

The Thermometer is a must, I would buy 2 of the $1.19 glass therm's from wally world, just make sure they are reading the proper temp when you buy them and not reading 0 or 100...

Dropping the pH... Personally I'd live with the 7.6... My tap water is 7.6 and all my fish do fine.. consistancy is the key, a slightly higher pH shouldn't hurt any of the fish you were thinking about earlier (IMO). If you really want to, alot of people recommend a small amount of 'peat moss' to do it naturally... pH UP and pH down chemicals work, but aren't very natural, and you'll find that your tank will become exteremly prone to pH swings when using it... Atleast it was that way for me when I was new in the hobby and wanted to maintain a 'perfect' 7.0....

[ACD74131]

I am looking at my tank now, and a thought just popped into my head about heater placement. The way it's setup up now is that the heater is on the upper right hand side of the tank. Does this mean the one side of the tank will be warmer then the other? Where would be the optimum placement for the heater? In the middle?

Also - What size air stone should I have for a 10 gallon tank? I have this 5" flat air stone which might be a tad big?

Thanks...

PS - I picked up some more test equipment, running after dinner.

[TKOS]

In a tank that small the heater placement isn't too important. It will keep the tank pretty much even. And an air stone isn't needed, the filter will do enough to help oxygenate the water. If you want an airstone for looks then that is fine.

[ACD74131]

I have a silly question then ....

Is it possible to have too much oxygen in the tank?

Also forgot to mention - water is now evaporating, should it be replaced yet or no?

Thanks everyone for the help so far....

[ACD74131]

Prometheus - Yes, there are no fish in the tank.

Did some more testing today, Nitrites and Ammonia are both now at 0. I did not pick up that Nitrate kit yet (Doing that today) and will test. Providing that the Nitrate results come back ok, should I do a small water change and/or add some fish (my plan is to add like 3 white clouds or neons).

If no water change is needed, can I replace the evaporated water (Prime treated)?.

Also is it critical to test for GH (General Hardness) and KH (Carbonate Hardness)?.

Thanks all...

[OrionGirl]

You can't really supersaturate the tank with oxygen--jut not something that will happen in a tank environment. Pure oxygen can burn fish, but the amount introduced by increased surface agitation won't hurt. If you want plants, you can reduce the amount of CO2 available to them, which will cause reduced growth in the plants.

Top off for evaporation is important, but not a substitute for water changes. Topoff dilutes the water, but since minerals and toxins are left behind when the water evaporates, it doesn't really dilute them much. Water changes will!

GH and KH are important, though not as much as ammonia and nitrite. The KH of the tank, and it's alkalinity, will help you monitor the stability of the pH. Normal biological processes produce acids. These acids can reduce the pH of the water; normally, the buffering ability of your water is adequate, when replenished with regular water changes, to keep the pH stable. however, if your KH is less than 3, you will need to monitor the tank to ensure that the pH remains stable, and possibly add some buffer (most use crushed coral with success).

HTH

[ACD74131]

I did those KH and GH tests.

The KH results came back at 3 drops (The test kit I have states that 1 drop = 17.9 ppm KH) - so it's at the 3-6 (50-100ppm).

The GH results (test was harder to discern the color, I did this test 2 times) came back at once 4 drops and once 5 drops (1 drop is equal to 17.9 ppm GH) - that too is with in the norm of 3-6 (50-100ppm)..

I topped off the tank with some water. I am going to LFS to get the other test kit.

Also picking up a much smaller air stone 1" at the most.

Thanks.

[ACD74131]

Another update :

Good and bad news.

Good
-------

1. Found Bio-Spira in my area.
2. I added fish (Neons) and Bio-Spira (added to tank before fish).

Bad
-----

A mis-communication between my wife and I - we each picked up 3 neons, so now I have a total of 6 in the tank, is it going to be a issue with that many as a start?

Going to conduct water tests right after work.

Thanks.

[OrionGirl]

The Bio-Spira should help out. Keep monitoring the conditions, and add more Bio-Spira if needed. Water changes are still a great option.

[ACD74131]

Okie, another update with questions.

Fish are in distress, I think I might be feeding them too much (2x) a day - in reading, should only be 1x a day so I switched to that, also I think I was feending a bit much so it's like a pinch of food at this point.

Now 2 questions ..


1. When doing a water change, I have been doing between 10-20% every day (1-2) gallons, now I fill this pitcher I have (2 quarts) and put a capfull of Prime in then put it in the tank. Is this the right way? Should it be less then a capfull? Or should I just put the water in and put the cap full into the tank? Maybe too much Prime in the tank?

2. Each time you do a water change? Should I put Stress Zyme in it? Should I use everyday?

Thanks.

[TKOS]

I would just use the dechlorinator if it were my tank. You probably can use a lot less that you are using but I don't know what the directions say. Probably a capful for 5 gallon or something. Gte an eye dropper and for a quart add a few drops. Try to get the water to a similar temp (add a little hot if you need to) and add. Doing it everyday is good for now and shouldn't cause a problem. And sticking to small changes is great.

[OrionGirl]

I disagree on having the water too warm--cooler is better. Warm water contains less oxygen than cool water, and this can stress fish much more than slightly cooler water.

[ACD74131]

Here is what the directions say (from the website)..

Use 1 mL (top mark of enclosed dispenser) for each 10 gallons (40 L) of new water. May be added to aquarium directly, but better if added to new water first. If adding directly to aquarium, base dose on aquarium volume. Sulfur odor is normal. For exceptionally high chloramine concentrations, a double dose may be used safely. To detoxify nitrite in an emergency, up to 5 times normal dose may be used. If temperature is > 86 °F (30 °C) and chlorine or ammonia levels are low, use a half dose. Caution! Aquarium Use Only! Keep Away from Children! Contains complexed hydrosulfite salts.

My bottle here, says something a bit different (nothing about for each 10 gallons)...

I do believe I found the problem, I used to much Prime. (I think).

I am doing a 50% water change now, how much Prime should I use?

Thanks.

[ACD74131]

What I don't understand is this..

Nitrites = 0
pH = 7.6
Ammonia = Off the meter, when I added the drops by the 3rd one the water was like grey/yellowish.

Should'nt the fish be dead?

I really messed up with the Prime, I read the directions wrong (I should only have been adding 1 ml instead of 5 ml of Prime every water switch.

I know this sounds terrible, but should I just toss the neons and restart the cycle process again, or just keep the water changes going every day?

Thanks.

[jt325i]

Originally posted by ACD74131
What I don't understand is this..

Nitrites = 0
pH = 7.6
Ammonia = Off the meter, when I added the drops by the 3rd one the water was like grey/yellowish.

Should'nt the fish be dead?

I really messed up with the Prime, I read the directions wrong (I should only have been adding 1 ml instead of 5 ml of Prime every water switch.

I know this sounds terrible, but should I just toss the neons and restart the cycle process again, or just keep the wayer changes going every day?

Thanks.

Don't toss the fish. Do a water change ASAP! Do 50%, let the tank run for a couple hours then take another ammonia measurement.

[OrionGirl]

For 5 gallons, that means you will need to use 1/2 ml of Prime. If you are worried about measuring, you can pick up a dosing syringe--they have them for medicating babies at most pharmacies.

I wouldn't toss the fish. If they are alive, they deserve a chance.

For ammonia levels--check your test kit, and make sure it will work with chloramine treated water. When chloramines are treated, they break into a chlorine molecule and an ammonia molecule. Prime then binds the ammonia molecule into ammonium--bio-available, but non-toxic to fish. Some test kits detect both ammonia and ammonium--in other words, it gives you a false positive for ammonia, because of the ammonium.

[ACD74131]

Problem Solved!

3 50% water changes....

Now just a trace .5-1.0 of ammonia smaller water changes will help this drop to '0'

Also brought the temp down a bit - it was at 77 degrees, I brought it down to about 73-74.

I also noticed the color of the 6 neons seems a bit more brighter and seem to be much more active.

[ACD74131]

It's been a few more days. Ammonia and Nitrite are at '0'

pH is still bothering me - I can't get it down to anything lower than 7.6 - what can I do to bring it down? Do I need to being it down with neons in the tank?

If the Ammonia and Nitrite levels maintain there '0' level for the next few days I would like to add some more fish - I still have the 6 neons (In a 10 gallon tank) from the start - any suggestions?

Also quick question about Neons. After about 5-10 mins after feeding they start to swim like vertically, it almost seems like they are in distress, I wish I could describe it better - is this normal?

Thanks...

[OrionGirl]

I wouldn't mess with the pH. The fish are acclimated to it now, and it's tough to change water chemistry and have it be stable.

For the neons--add a couple at a time, every 3-4 days.

Now sure about the behavior--been a while since I had neons. Sorry!

[ACD74131]

I have 6 in there now, I was just looking for suggestions for some new fish.

Is 7.6 pH high for neons?

[OrionGirl]

For wild caught neons, yes, 7.6 would be high. However, all neons are farm breed these days, and are pretty flexible. I would not worry about it at all.

[ACD74131]

Very werid. I did a water change (10%) same way I have been doing them. Something happened, which I can't place my finger on.

All 6 neons are under some kind of stress.
Tested water.

Ammonia - A trace, close to 0.
Nitrites - 0
pH - 7.6

Did not test Nitrates/GH/KH yet...

But I did notice some while I was examining the tank. On the air tube going from my air stone to the air pump and the suction cups of the heater there is these white dots and/substance forming on them, is there cause for alarm here?

Thanks.

[OrionGirl]

Have you touched the spots? Could be a number of things, from hyrda/microfauna to calcium precipitating out (unlikely). See what texture they have and if they wipe off.

[ACD74131]

Hi All.

It wiped right off, anything I should be worried about?

Tank is very clean, water is in top shape I found a place that sells pete moss so I am going to pick up today.

I still have all 6 neons, they seem to have gotten brighter colors or something, they look great.

I want to add some new fish I just don't know what to add? It's a 10 gallon so I am kind of limited a bit, but I am open for suggestions...

Thanks.

[HarmonyAZ]

Why are you still worried about the ph? I think four times in this thread you've been advised it's not a problem. :confused::confused: :confused:

[shewlett]

There is no need to slit the Whisper Bio-Bag cartridge open to get the carbon out. The top of the cartridge (black plastic piece) will snap open and you can dump out the carbon and replace it with more carbon or filter floss. You can also control the filter flow rate to some extent by how much media you pack the bag with.

We have three cats and three tanks. I don't even think they know that the fish exist. Thanks God!

If you want to bring down the pH some you could test the pH of a gallon of spring water sold at your local supermarket and if it is lower than your tank you could add some of that when doing a partial water change. Poland Springs tests out to 6.8 here where I live.

[Uncle Bete]

Grrrr... I just strained my brain for around 40 minutes with a...
If you drop your pH all the work etc. that will be required to kepp it that way. (maintenance, etc. NEW FISH acclimation etc.)
and tossed in obviously too many faces for this site to handle.
Might have been 7 of'em? >>>> these things>>>> :argh

After I hit "submit" it said something about I had too many of'em.
Well, you can't just :go back" and get rid of'em. Everything just dissapears and you have to start over. Insert mad face here lol.
Because I'm skeeered it won't let me send this little bit of typeing either. (place, stick tounge out face here)
Its about enough to make me(place green face here)
How about 3 more Grrrr faces while were at it.
and another tounge lmao

Ya'all might want to copy your post before posting just incase this happens to you!

In the mean time, ACD
Refer to my sig. (Place, smiley/ winky n nod here lol )