angelfish agression ???

[Crat]

I bought two angels a while back and wound up separating them because the larger of the two kept picking on the other. I attempted to put them together in their own 29g tank alone and still the same behavior. Should I return one and try a new fish? Or should I be keeping more than two to spread out agression? I bought this tank to be an angel tank so I would like to keep more than one. The ultimate goal here is two or three angels coexisting in the tank. Any ideas welcomed. Thanks again AC!

Caleb

[Star_Rider]

Angels are Cichlids and their temperament can be nasty

you may have an alpha Angel. typically the males will act like this.
your problem is you prob have two males.

(this is a guess at best)

a 29 is only large enough for a single dominant angel or a pair.(male/female)
it is sometime possible to keep a couple or possibly 3 females but angels are nearly impossible to sex.

still your 29 will limit how many you can keep.

a single angel is fine tho.

they are fine as a solitary fish.(with dithers)

[Draal5]

You don't say if you have any other fish in with them which could help with the aggression. tall plants can also help as it give them some boundaries and hiding space even though they are not really hidden. Could you be a little bit more specif as to the aggression, ie are the causing damage to each others fins etc.. A lot of times people either wait to long or don't wait long enough when they separate their fish.

you should have no problems keeping 3 in a 29. I use 29's to raise up 6 to adult hood and when they pair up remove the pair to a 20h for spawning.

[stratusfearrr]

i had three, and im pretty sure the other two mauled the other one to death. i came back into my room and saw it dying. after that, the two that paired off are fine, so its possible that you have two males.

[KIM_TMA]

Caleb, Here is my suggestion.
Either take 1 of them back to the lfs or buy 1 more and see if it evens out the aggression. I agree with Draal5 3 young ones can be kept together in a 29 but if a couple pair off get the third wheel out or they will torture it to death.

Also like Draal asked what kind of aggression are you talking about, damage or just pushing each other around?
If it is damage aggression I would probaly take one back and maybe bring 2 diff ones home to see if maybe you do have 2 males that are just fighting out territory issues.

Good Luck!

[Flying_Diamond]

i had an aggression problem with my two original angels [only one priginal remaining now. other died of non-related illness]
What i did was take the smaller one being beat up on, and put him in a ten gallon tank to get a little bigger. once he got a big bigger than the other, i put him back in the 55 with it and the now littler one still beat up on him, so i took her out and re-arranged the decor, and kept her in a 30 gallon for a week. put her back in and their relationship was fine with no aggression. you could try this.

personally, i wouldn't keep more than 1 angel in a 29. it's way too small IMO anyway and it'd just be crappy keeping more in there. they'd be aggressive most likely and cramped. if it was a breeding pair, i'd make an exception, but only then.

[poconogal]

I had 2 Angels in a 45 years ago. They were a spawning pair and had freeswimmers so confirmed male and female. At one point the male didn't want to spawn anymore so the female beat him to death. And she did it fast, forget divorce, she went straight for murder. I had lots of tall plants in the tank, there was nowhere he was safe. They should not be called Angelfish, that's for sure. Since then, I won't keep more than one Angel in any tank.

[Crat]

Well as we sit right now, they are in seperate tanks. I had them in my 55g with the other fish in there. I tried them alone in the 29, with a bunch of tall plants to try to give hiding places. There was no real damage that I could tell, just one fish being constantly chased and niped at by the other, it wouldn't bother me so much if he fought back a little. But all he does is swim away and get chassed some more. I figure that can't be too good for the little guy. I was a little concerned that 29g might be a little small for more than one angel.

I'm thinking I'll just leave them seperate, I kind of like haveing one in my 125 anyway. I was worried that the angel and gourami would fight so I never tried them together. They don't even look at each other twice, I think they will do alright. This might limmit my future stocking in th 125 but I guess I'll have to work around it. How about some black skirt tetras in the 125? or maybe a school of sissor tail rasboras?

Thanks for the input everyone.
Caleb

[poconogal]

Hi. Every time I've had a Gourami in with an Angel, they eventually began to fight. It didn't start right away though. Once I found my Angel all torn up one day and then saw the Gourami chasing her. Moved the Gourami (and it was a dwarf Gourami, too) to my Discus tank and I figured the little squirt wouldn't dare bother large adult Discus. Wrong! By the next day he was charging across the tank into the Discus and making them run. Then he'd do it, again and again, until I got the net and off to the LFS he went! Anyway, I'd just keep a close eye on that Gourami, LOL!! :)

[Flying_Diamond]

i have an opaline gourami [at 4/5" right now] in a 55 with two angels that can't be more than silver dollar size [bodies] and they all get along fine. i've had them together for about half a year, so i don't really think there will be any problems. i think it just depends on the fish. *shrugs*

[PopPopsfish]

Well as we sit right now, they are in seperate tanks. I had them in my 55g with the other fish in there. I tried them alone in the 29, with a bunch of tall plants to try to give hiding places. There was no real damage that I could tell, just one fish being constantly chased and niped at by the other, it wouldn't bother me so much if he fought back a little. But all he does is swim away and get chassed some more. I figure that can't be too good for the little guy. I was a little concerned that 29g might be a little small for more than one angel.

I'm thinking I'll just leave them seperate, I kind of like haveing one in my 125 anyway. I was worried that the angel and gourami would fight so I never tried them together. They don't even look at each other twice, I think they will do alright. This might limmit my future stocking in th 125 but I guess I'll have to work around it. How about some black skirt tetras in the 125? or maybe a school of sissor tail rasboras?

Thanks for the input everyone.
Caleb

I was a little concerned that 29g might be a little small for more than one angel. We keep Breeding Pairs (Standard fin) in 10 gallon tanks , key to keeping and Breeding Angels is kleen Water and a Quality diet. Regular maintenance is required and a firm cleaning regiment to be successful.

I believe that separating the odd fish out would be the best course of action. We run into this problem often. Separating the oddball is the quickest fix as long as you have somewhere to put it , if nowhere to go simply place a divider in the tank until you can set up another tank.

[Flying_Diamond]

I was a little concerned that 29g might be a little small for more than one angel. We keep Breeding Pairs (Standard fin) in 10 gallon tanks , key to keeping and Breeding Angels is kleen Water and a Quality diet. Regular maintenance is required and a firm cleaning regiment to be successful.

I believe that separating the odd fish out would be the best course of action. We run into this problem often. Separating the oddball is the quickest fix as long as you have somewhere to put it , if nowhere to go simply place a divider in the tank until you can set up another tank.

i don't mean to insult you or anything, but i definitely don't agree with this and can't see how you would recommend it to anyone. i would consider this completely cruel. there's no way an angel fish could be happy, healthy, or thrive in a tank this size. i barely condone putting one in a 29 gallon. :eek:

[PopPopsfish]

We find that when Angel pairs are placed in smaller tanks ,that the feel more secure and tend to Parent raise their young. Pairs are only kept in smaller tanks when we need them to spawn, when we give them a break we place them in Large tanks ( 125-180 gallons ) where they can decide if they want another mate . We try to keep strains separate so we do not end up with something we are unable to sell or breed.

This was just an example of what works for us and it was intended as an example , this can be done successfully if you know what you are doing ( basic water chemistry and good husbandry .) If you could see what Large Breeders use you would be shocked . All our tanks get regular maintenance , most receive a daily vac and water change . Our angles seem to like it as they will Spawn every 6-10 days like clock work.

So to some it up / What works for us may not work for you .

[Draal5]

i don't mean to insult you or anything, but i definitely don't agree with this and can't see how you would recommend it to anyone. i would consider this completely cruel. there's no way an angel fish could be happy, healthy, or thrive in a tank this size. i barely condone putting one in a 29 gallon. :eek:

Every breeder I know and have known since 1970 uses a 29 for at least 6 angels to grow out and pair off then remove to either a 20h or 10 for spawning.

There is a lot of information out there that has been told over and over till it is considered gospel but its not and as science and actual studies are being done a lot of this misinformation will go away.

There are pairs that will breed like rabbits in a 10 but not a 29 there are pairs that will spawn the same way in a 29 but not in a 10.

This is the ways breeders have been doing things for ages, is this the way we would do it for a show tank H**L no.

but back to the ops problem he should return all 3 and pick a new three from the LFS it is unlikely that now having learned the aggression that it will stop and conversely having been picked on that fish would become the aggressor to any new fish introduced.

[Flying_Diamond]

i've corrected aggression in my fish. i don't see why he has to give up on them. mine learned to co-exist happily after some re-arranging and growing.

[Draal5]

1.we have not determined the existent of the aggression to know if it is possible to work through it.

2. some people don't like to have any aggression in their tanks at all

3 . I should have said "if" they were to return any it should be all not just one

[Flying_Diamond]

i just don't see the difference between taking fish back or just fixing the aggression problem if it's possible.

[Star_Rider]

sometimes you cannot 'fix' aggression .. i find this particularly true with angels. more often it is best to move either the aggressor or the victim.
if you try to fix it, it may be too late for the victim.



a particularly aggressive angel can destroy the victim in a very short period of time.


I am curious as to how you try to fix aggression in angels. short of moving fish and /or placing a tank divider in.
some angels are just plain "MEAN"..

i know I have some.

;)

[Flying_Diamond]

all i've had to do was move some for a while, let some grow, etc, and the problems were fixed. i'm not saying this will work for every angel, but i don't think we should be so quick to tell someone they have to take them back if the problems aren't major yet. i know i'd hate to be told i had to take back a fish because of a problem that could be avoided, you know?