View Full Version : water problems
often dignified
12-11-2003, 6:51 PM
I woke up this morning to 4 dead fish. I did a partial water change last night (15-20%), of course added the dosage of chlorine remover before adding the water to the tank. I didn't have any testing supplies at the time, but I have some now. I think there was a huge pH swing last night during the change.
Since the tank stunk and was cloudy, I did about a 50% water change early this morning with no fish in the tank. It's been sitting for about 9 hours and I now have some test strips.
It's a 10 gallon tank, been running for 2 months with very little problem and fish loss. I had (:() 2 platies and 2 cories. The pH is extremely high, water is hard, but everything else looks ok. I've been going to Petco to get my water tested about once per week. The pH has always been slightly high, but not this bad. :(
Water parameters:
pH - 8.4 :(
alkalinity (KH) - about 140 ppm
hardness (GH) - 150 ppm
nitrite - 2.0 ppm
nitrate - 35 ppm
I'm surprised at the nitrite... I thought bio-wheels were supposed to eliminate all ammonia and nitrite? I plan on picking up an individual ammonia test tomorrow. I've had a Penguin filter on there for about a month.
What can I do to bring the pH down and soften the water?
carpguy
12-11-2003, 7:35 PM
Somethings up with your biofilter. The tanks not supposed to smell or be cloudy. I'm assuming your tank was cycled by this point, but the high nitrites make me think that your bacteria took some sort of hit and you're back in a cycle type enviroment. When you test for ammonia I suspect you'll find some…
Ammonia toxicity varies greatly according to pH. In an acidic enviroment a lot of the Ammonia (NH3) is going to appear as Ammonium (NH4+), a non-toxic ion. As the pH rises the ratio of NH4+ to NH3 drops like a stone. At a pH of 8.4 even small amounts of ammonia can be lethal. Which is what I think happened to your fish… :( (sorry to hear).
If the tank is empty at this point I'd get whatever bacteria you've got going onto a fishless cycle regimen. Assuming there are at least some guys in there this should go very fast. I wouldn't add fish again until you know there is a healthy biofilter to take care of them.
The other issue is the pH. It wasn't always this high? Seems high for the KH. What sort of reading are you getting off your tapwater (test aged water thats been set out overnight)? New rocks or decorations in the tank? Where does your water come from (city, well, softened, etc.)?
That does seem strange. After what I just read I was under the impression that during a cycle the pH generally drops as the buffer gets used up .
Other than the water change what had been your regieme for cleaning the tank? When you did the water change di you clean the biowheel?
often dignified
12-11-2003, 8:11 PM
Well, I think the water was cloudy because one of the platies had been sucked up against the intake... and the smell was that of dead fish. Normally, the tank is crystal clear with oxygen bubbles pouring in from the bio-wheel, and an earthy soil smell.
You mentioned bacteria... I have some Mardel Aquatic Culture Bacteria, will this help get things back in line?
I haven't added anything new in a few weeks except an airstone about 1 or 2 days per week to help with the oily film on the top. I added some of those miracle bulbs from Wal Mart, but would that have done anything?
I think I might be guilty of over feeding, but I don't think it would have killed all my fish overnight? I fed flakes once yesterday afternoon and a small amount of bloodworms in the evening. Once all the bloodworms were gone, I went about with the water change.
I'm just using city water, we're in an apartment so I don't have a water softener. Normal pH for the tank was around 7.6-7.8... I've never seen it at 8.4, which is the max on my test kit so it might be even higher.
I'm setting some tap water out now and I'll take a reading tomorrow night.
What could have took out my bacteria?
No, I've never even touched the bio-wheel. For cleaning the inside of the tank, I usually take a paper towel and just wipe the glass to keep the fuzzy stuff off, it's kinda just like a haze that I suspected was from hard water?
Perhaps your tank went down the drain AFTER the death of your platy? Could it have fouled the water and contributed to much of the presence of ammonia (hence nitrite)?
Well you are doing the right thing with the biowheel so that isn't it. I wouldn't add that bottled bacteria. I was just reading in anothr thread that they can contain small amounts of ammonia from dead bacteria. Only biospira is proven to work as a bottled bacteria product.
The bacteria mentioned is the bacteria involved in the nitrogen cycle. The first bacteria group eats ammonia and produces nitrites which are eaten by a second bacteria and produce nitrates which are then removed with water changes.
Are there no more fish in the tank? If so the fishless cycle is a good idea while you figure out what was going on. Just do a search in the forums for fishless cycle and you will get a ton of hits.
carpguy
12-11-2003, 9:27 PM
The normal nitrogen cycle does cause the pH to drop over time. Other things may cause it to go up. Certain rocks or maybe something the water company has done. You might want to contact your local water supply to find out if they've shocked the system or changed how they're processing the water.
Healthy fish don't get sucked into the intake. The platy was already on its way out and the smell may be from the deaths rather than the cause of them.
The only bacteria-in-a-bottle type product that I've heard positive things about is BioSpira. I'd try that if you can find it, but I wouldn't have much faith in the rest of that sort of stuff.
I'd keep an eye on your tap for a little bit — keep testing it over the next little bit. And I'd try calling the water company.
What are you using for a water conditioner?
often dignified
12-11-2003, 9:58 PM
at the time I was using TetraSafe... but I ran out of it today and bought some Wardley's Chlor-Out. I know the death of one fish being sucked against the intake would distrubute toxins to the tank, but I was looking for the cause of the first death. When I went to bed they looked happy and were active. Could a heater surge have shocked them?
I doubt a heater surge would have killed a platy. They are pretty tough fish. Once again unless he was already on his way out. I woke up to find my tank at 90F one morning and I have White Clouds that like coldwater and everyone was fine. :confused:
often dignified
12-12-2003, 6:14 AM
Hmmm, well thanks for your help, although I am still baffeled about what could have happened. I'll let the tank run until after New Years before testing and adding anything else.
Without any fish in the tank you will need to add a food source to keep all the good bacteria alive, as per the fishless cycle. If you do that then the tank will be perfect for stocking when you get a chance. Either pure ammonia or a raw dead shrimp will work fine.