View Full Version : low ph
Hello,
I checked ph in my goldfish tank yesterday afternoon and using a Tetra kit, the ph is 5. I'm sure that isn't appropriate for the fish. How does one increase it? Is it possible that my canister filter in which I am using Fluval Zeo Carb is filter too much alkaline? I was having a problem with high ammonia.
How do I raise ph? Or, do I?
Thanks.
yes that is way too low for them. I use api' ph up but someone should be along shortly to let you know a non chemical way soon im sure :)
jpappy789
06-28-2009, 1:46 PM
Don't use chemicals. Most likely you have a low KH and adding anything that increases pH will only insure that it comes crashing right back down if you do not have enough buffering capacity.
What are you using to test?
What is your KH?
Generally pH does not matter but at that level it is dangerous to both your fish and your bacteria colony.
Using crushed coral is a simpler way. A bag of it in your filter should buffer it up.
My water parameters are, using the Tetra test materials:
ph. 5
KH less the 1 degree
NO2 - 0.3 mg/l
NH3/NH4 - .25 mg/l
I use a Fluval Canister 305. It currently has top to bottom
BioMax/regular white ring things (not sure of the name, the canister came with them)
Carbon/regular white ring things
Carbon/Zeo Carb
After my initial post, I swapped out one of the Zeo Carbs for the Carbon, thinking I may be pulling too much ammonia out of the water.
I also run an over the side filter with a carbon pad.
Dr. Awkward
06-28-2009, 4:37 PM
Oh man, that KH is so low. I wonder what your pH goes up to after a water change.
X2 on crushed coral in the filter.
I know this isn't what you were asking about but if I were you I'd stop trying to chemically filter the ammonia out of the water and fix the source of the problem.
jpappy789
06-28-2009, 4:38 PM
Are they liquid or strip tests?
Your KH is dangerously low. Crushed coral will help buffer as would baking soda.
And it looks like your tank is not cycled as you should not have ammonia or nitrite present.
How did you cycle?
What is the tank size and stock?
Lupin
06-29-2009, 12:53 AM
Retest with API. Tetra products have always been fishy to me.
Okay. I'll run out to the LFS and pick up new test kits. I'll keep you posted.
jpappy789
06-30-2009, 11:45 PM
Make sure to test for everything.
KarlTh
07-01-2009, 12:58 AM
The ammonia and nitrite are present because of the low pH inhibiting the filter bacteria. If the tap KH is also very low then I'd add sodium bicarb to bring the KH up to around 3, but I'd do it over a few days or that ammonium will turn toxic.
jpappy789
07-01-2009, 1:01 AM
That is if the test is accurate. Never used a Tetra brand one myself, but it's liquid at least so I have a feeling the readings are unfortunately true...
Glad you made the low pH-param connection...I sure didn't...
THE V
07-01-2009, 12:07 PM
The ammonia and nitrite are present because of the low pH inhibiting the filter bacteria. If the tap kH is also very low then I'd add sodium bicarb to bring the kH up to around 3, but I'd do it over a few days or that ammonium will turn toxic.
Sodium bicarbonate (baking soda) is not a good choice for KH adjustment. Sodium can be toxic to most organisms if the levels rise too high (sodicity). If you've ever heard of the sodium/potassium pump of the cell membrane you can understand why.
kH refers to calcium bicarbonate. Tossing in a few antacid tablets is a much better solution. You can also use eggshells, seashells, crushed coral, or if you have access to it like me, agricultural lime (not quick-lime).
With a kH that low are you using distilled or RO water to do water changes with? If you are stop immediately. Generally tap water with dechlorinator is much better for a freshwater setup. There are certain locations that I know of where the water has a pH of 10 and a kH of 3/4 rock where this is not the case. This water is so hard you just about need to chew it. RO and DI water should be used in saltwater setups only unless there are very special circumstances.
FYI the reason that the pH drops in a tank with a low amount of calcium bicarbonate is seldom described on this form. The cycling process usually is described as ammonia - nitrite - nitrate. This only describes the nitrogen ion side. Ammonia (NH3) in water freely coverts to ammonium (NH4+) adsorbing a proton and acting as a base. Nitrite and nitrate are actually in the form of nitrous acid (HNO2) and nitric acid (H2NO3) respectively. Nitric acid is a very strong acid and drops the pH in small quantities.
Calcium bicarbonate (kH) is a buffering chemical. These are cool molecules that can adsorb or release protons (H+) depending on the surrounding environment. When more higher numbers of protons are available (low pH) they act as a base and adsorb them. When low numbers of protons are present they release them (high pH). This action stabilizes the overall number of protons in solution helping to minimize the change of pH.
Probably more that you wanted to know but I'm avoiding getting started on a remodeling project right now. :)
KarlTh
07-02-2009, 1:23 PM
I do know about sodium/potassium pumps, and I know that sodium can be toxic. However, since the waters which generally need raising in KH are generally very low in sodium to start with, it's not a problem. "If you've ever heard" indeed. I have a science degree, thank you very much. Sodium bicarbonate is the most frequently used KH raiser because it doesn't contribute to raised GH and because it is very easy to use and cheap.
KH is not calcium bicarbonate; it's bicarbonate, regardless of source, and it's the bicarbonate which is the buffer. That's why sodium bicarbonate works just as well.
Good morning!
I'm reading with interest the information posted. I need to re-read though.
Just a quick reply. No, I don't use filtered or RO water. My ph has been great up until the other day and the only change I can think of is the addition of the larger filter which I wonder is pulling out too much nitrite and nitrate.
My community tank which is filled with water from the same tap has a neutral ph level.
I must read your posts again.
Thanks.
We did a water change. Tested the tap water and it is very soft. This is different than when we set up the tank last year. However, the ph of the tap water is 7.5. In any event, I've added some seashells to the tank and will check water levels again. Our one LFS doesn't carry crushed coral so I must run to another store.
echoofformless
07-03-2009, 10:06 AM
Tap water can change from time to time. I used to have liquid calcium pouring from my taps; great for mbuna tanks! But I had to use a lot of peat in my soft water setups.
Then a few years ago they suddenly switched it to neutral. Now I have crushed coral in my hard water systems and a lot less peat in my soft water systems.
Now my question regarding ammonia is thus: how large is this tank and how many gold fish live there? Goldies are some of the most wasteful of all and they generally need very large bodies of water or ridiculously frequent water changes in order for a biofilter to keep up with their waste.
Definitely do some crushed coral, but don't go crazy with it. Goldies like a little bit of softness and a slightly lower pH after all.