Dead fish, n00b..vent/ thread

[RDTigger]

stoopid GBR, pH not coming down.. water too hard...:argue:



BB not showing up....:bs:



ok.. that is enough for now...

[ksane]

Don't use those pH upper and lower chemicals. What are GBR's? (Rams?) And yes-you've got to get it cycled 1st.

[coach_z]

i bet user error!!!!

More seriously, lets talk about this though. is your tank cycled? are you using uppers or downers? conditioning your water? tankmates? tank size?

generally any fish can be acclimated to completely different water parameters without death or stress.....so i doubt it has to do with the hardness or ph of the water.

[Lupin]

Actually, hardness is not an issue if you buy your rams from your local breeders. They tend to do better in your tank than those from other areas where hardness degrees keep changing constantly as they are transported around. The issue lies in your cycling problems. Rams don't take kindly to elevated ammonia and nitrite.

[mikeb210]

What are your water parameters?

Also depending on your water source, ammonia and nitrite may be present in the water, overloading the present biofilter.

[RDTigger]

Actually, hardness is not an issue if you buy your rams from your local breeders. They tend to do better in your tank than those from other areas where hardness degrees keep changing constantly as they are transported around. The issue lies in your cycling problems. Rams don't take kindly to elevated ammonia and nitrite.

Dead on... I have not asked about their water parameters, and their location is 25 minutes away so while it may be close, I have an idea that there water quality is going to differ...
My tank cycle is more likely the issue.. My ammonia has not gone above 1.0 ppm, temp is 78, and all fish have been eating. The Rams are under stress.. As soon as I can get a nitrite reading I will feel better. I will have a QT as soon as I can get a more stable set of water parameters...

I am doing 20% WC daily and running Stability for my cycle... It's been 72 hours and still no nitrite reading so i am beginning to wonder if I have a bad bottle?

I will be checking again this morning.


What are your water parameters?

Also depending on your water source, ammonia and nitrite may be present in the water, overloading the present biofilter.

pH holding 8.0, temp 78, Ammonia 1.0ppm, nitrite 0.0, nitrate 0.0...

My tap water had medium hardness, 7.8pH, 0.0 ammonia and no nitrite/nitrate tests came positive.

I use an API master freshwater test kit...

[RDTigger]

Sorry guys... completely missed these...



Don't use those pH upper and lower chemicals. What are GBR's? (Rams?) And yes-you've got to get it cycled 1st.

Have not adjusted or tweaked the pH in any way.... I am running Sea Chem Stability


i bet user error!!!!

More seriously, lets talk about this though. is your tank cycled? are you using uppers or downers? conditioning your water? tankmates? tank size?

generally any fish can be acclimated to completely different water parameters without death or stress.....so i doubt it has to do with the hardness or ph of the water.

Stress might be a factor.. I have a bully firemouth in the tank at about 2.25" but no damage... Things seemed fine until it started hovering the top 1/3 of the tank.

I condition my water with Prime or Aquasafe... Things are under control.. Just need nature to take it's course and the Stability to kick in for me...

[krytan]

Those bottels of instant cycle rarely work, as you have an uncycled tank with fish in you are going to need to do lots of water changes to keep the ammonia and nitrites under .25ppm (this may mean more than once a day) or take the fish back and do a fishless cycle.

[Lexi_D]

What is the stock of the tank and how large is it? Firemouths need atleast a 30 gallon tank or more, rams stay pretty small, but I'm not sure if they are all that compatible with each other.

[RDTigger]

What is the stock of the tank and how large is it? Firemouths need atleast a 30 gallon tank or more, rams stay pretty small, but I'm not sure if they are all that compatible with each other.


I have 2 FM's, one is the bully I want to QT... and this is a 30g.. 36" long

The other is hanging on but could be more active.. I have 1 ram 2 FM's and 4 neon tetra atm... I am painting a room that will will have my QT and should have it up and running in the next day or so...

Getting ready to make 3-4 5G changes throughout the day to try and pull my 1.0 Ammonia reading down... Still 0.0 on the nitrites..

[Dopehand]

One thing you might think about is raising your temperature by 4 ish degrees, as Rams love higher temperatures. Is there a possibility you can maybe cut your water with RO water? If you think it may be the dealer water conditions, that might help. Just make sure you make any changes gradual.

You can get it from wal-mart for like 2 bucks for 5 gallons, if you can't afford a unit.

[petluvr]

If you are still showing ammonia then IMO your tank is not cycled and that is your problem.

[bushwhacker]

GBR are a really great fish but its not something you want to put in an uncycled tank... wait till the tanks been running for 3 or 4 months then get a pair. and considering most rams come from asia and have been dosed with hormones to make them color up faster they tend to die really easy

[mel_20_20]

Agree with everyone. You have to keep the ammonia down below .25, and really you should do water changes big enough and frequent enough to keep the parameters at 0 or as close to it as possible. There will be enough ammonia in the tank to keep the cycle developing.

When nitrites appear - same thing. Keep the parameters at: ammonia 0, nitrites 0 and then when you finally have nitrates they need to be kept at or around 20ppm.

Prime is really good as it helps detoxify ammonia and nitrites for appx twenty-four hours, helping spare your fish stress and suffering, but you still have to do the big water changes within that time frame.

When detectable, ammonia is burning the gills and skin, and nitrites prevent uptake of oxygen so the fish suffocate, and even at .25 they feel like they aren't getting enough O2 and it is stressful, weakens their immune systems, and makes them prone to disease, illness, parasites, and death.

I didn't notice, and forgive me if this was mentioned already, but what kind of testing kit do you use?

If strips, then you are most likely not getting accurate readings. I learned from experience and from the fish gurus here on AC, test strips are not worth a plug nickle. You need a good liquid test kit.

API Master is a good one. It costs more up front, but lasts forever and the strips are expensive in comparison and are junk. They are unreliable and usually wrong.

[RDTigger]

thx for all the input so far

I have done one 5G wc with Prime today.. and will do another this evening... 1.0->.5 hopefully by tomorrow morning...

I appreciate all the input as I would not have realized 1.0 ppm would be too high of an ammonia content.. .25 is my goal for now.. and I'll push to finally bring it ALL the way down..

[mikeb210]

Yeah ammonia is bad. 0 ppm is good. If you're still reading ammonia then you have issues with your biofilter, ie. it has not cycled. Get it cycled first.