Fluorite

[jpappy789]

I've never tried any sort of plant substrate so I thought I would give it a try. I just bought a 20 lb bag for my 10 gallon Im going to setup soon, but I have a couple questions...

1) Says its prewashed but still may be cloudy...should I still wash or just let it settle on its own?

2) Bag also says that it is best to use as the only substrate, but is it smooth enough for most bottom dwellers? Does it tend to get stirred up if left on top?

[Slappy*McFish]

Wash it...you'll be glad you did. ;)
I see no problem mixing it with other substrates. (I do)
The plants do just fine either way.
I've never had any problems with bottom feeders rooting around in flourite. (Corys, loaches) all had nice long barbels.
It stays on the bottom and doesn't stir up any worse than most substrates available. If you mix it with sand, it will rise to the top in time.

[jpappy789]

I'm thinking sand...

[Hebily]

Wash it. Wash it. Wash it more. If you don't wash it, your water will get ridiculously cloudy, and stay that way until you change out about 100,000,000% of your water. Then it will cloud up horribly every time it is disturbed. From what I've heard, if you wash it (ALOT) this won't be a problem. Obviously, I didn't wash mine enough. I removed it and replaced it with plain sand. When I removed it after about a year in the tank, I would take out a cupful, and have to wait several hours for it to settle out again before removing more. Definately wash it well.

[jpappy789]

Bag says it will take 2-12 hours to settle...but I plan on washing it. Just didnt know if it was needed.

[Hebily]

I only kinda washed it, and after a week the water was still opaque. 0 visibility. Stick your hand in the tank and it dissapears! OOOH, it's magic!

I had the red gravel stuff.

[insectheart]

i've never used fluorite myself, but i'm certainly planning to myself. from what i've read so far, it definitely needs to be washed and washed very well, as everyone else said. i guess it's awful for clouding even after washing and might take a while to settle. as for mixing, i plan to mix it when i get it to create a more natural blend of substrate, and i've yet to find anything saying not too. probably just the company's method of making you buy a bigger bag :P

[Sarahann31190]

Definitely wash it. Probly about 5-10 times.

[timwag2001]

check out what happened when i didnt rinse my flourite http://www.aquariacentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=195402&highlight=flourite&page=3

[timwag2001]

just put as much as you can into a collander and put it under the faucette in the tub and stir it up with your hands till it you dont see anything coming out anymore.

[jpappy789]

Should I mix completely...or layer?

[Hebily]

OR - do it with the hose, outside, in your lawn, so you don't waste all that fertilizer.

for the mix, whatever you feel looks best.

[timwag2001]

good one hebily.

what do you have for substrate right now? i would probably just use one kind of substrate.

[jpappy789]

Tank is not setup yet, but I was hoping to layer a lighter color sand on the surface.

[wesleydnunder]

I agree with rinsing thoroughly. It can take a while too. I used a colander and a large tote and did the rinsing outside in the yard. Then, when I filled the tank, there was still some cloudiness. A few water changes later, along with wiping down the inside of the glass during those water changes to remove the dust that settled, and the water was sparkling clear. I've used fluorite in layered setups and some mixxed with sand. As mentioned, when mixxed with sand the fluorite will eventually wind up on top.

Mark

[Hebily]

it won't stay totally layered... you'll wind up with some flourite on top, but if you put a good, thick layer of sand, it should stay pretty layered. Your plants shouldn't care, either way. Be careful of gas bubbles, though, putting a layer of sand above something that can decompose.

[Sarahann31190]

I put mine in a big rubbermaid tub and rinsed it with the hose outside.

[247Plants]

What I heard you can do that works to keep it from getting cloudy is to rinse it well then let it dry in the sun. I have heard of people using this way successfully.

[jpappy789]

Hmmm...I'd really like to have a white sand as a substrate but if it mixes maybe thats not a good idea to mix. But at the same time I dont want the fluorite to go to waste and I would like to give it a try.

What if I physically separated the substrate, like little pockets of the fluorite where the plants will be but sort of hidden by the hardscape. Any ideas how I could pull that off?

[timwag2001]

with great difficulty.

[timwag2001]

something else to keep in mind is when you gravel vac you'll stir everything up and make a mess.

[jpappy789]

Well, I wouldn't vac those areas...any waste can be left as extra nutrients for the plants.

The main problem I see is my sids rooting around in the fluorite would stir it up.

[jpappy789]

And now it may be a 15 gallon instead of 10...not that it makes much of a difference.

[jackiomy]

Hmmm...I'd really like to have a white sand as a substrate but if it mixes maybe thats not a good idea to mix. But at the same time I dont want the fluorite to go to waste and I would like to give it a try.

What if I physically separated the substrate, like little pockets of the fluorite where the plants will be but sort of hidden by the hardscape. Any ideas how I could pull that off?

That is what I did and I really like it. When I vacuum I suck up flourite and sand and the flourite weighs so much more it falls out of the tube first and the sand recovers it.

[jpappy789]

I really like the idea of it too...how did you separate it?

[jpappy789]

I have a basic design of what the tank will look like. Unfortunately the site doesnt support the file type.

So here's what I'm thinking...

There are areas in the back corners where I would "rope off" the sand for the fluorite. Most likely would be for stem plants like rotala or cabomba maybe.

In the front would be dwarf sag and smaller crypts. Not sure if I would try separating the substrates but I might try something like a couple petri dishes filled with the flourite and a light layer of sand to hide it.

[Flying_Diamond]

i bought a 20lb bag for my 10 gallon a little while back and wish i hadn't. it took days to settle even after i thought i rinsed it thoroughly and now fish stir up debris just by swimming over it, and everything in the tank is caked with flourite dust that i can't seem to get out. i was trying to rinse out two sockfulls of it today to put in a small hex tank but after about an hour of rinsing with the hose, it's still dirty. :( i'll never use the rest of it, and i wouldn't recommend it.

[jpappy789]

Interesting.

[Flying_Diamond]

*shrugs* just my .02

[jpappy789]

Yeah, thanks though...I mean I'll wash it well, but I dont want my tank to be tomato soup whenever a fish moves.

[andyjs]

I had it and it was extremely cloudy for a while, but it cleared up well. I also never had a problem with bottom dwellers on it even though it looks pretty sharp. I really prefer Eco-Complete to Flourite though. It seems better for root systems and I also just prefer the look of it.

As far as mixing, I've never tried mixing Flourite, but in my new 29 Amazon setup, I have a 50/50 pool filter sand/Eco-Complete mix that I really like the look of

[jpappy789]

Hmmm...none of the LFS's in my area carry Eco if I remember correctly. Anybody know what the cheapest online seller is?

[rustilldown_7]

I just added flourite to my tank on Friday. I ran it under the sink about 4 lbs at a time and finally after about one hour I had done 15 lbs (whew). But it must have been enough because although I did get some clouding, it only lasted about 1 1/2 days. Now its pretty clear.

[Hebily]

Mine was mixed in with sand and gravel, with a 'layer' of gravel 'on top' (I use quotes because both terms layer and on top are arguable). I didn't have problems with cloudiness unless the gravel was disturbed. Fish swimming above it weren't a problem. Shrimp walking on the gravel weren't a problem either. If a bristlenose moved gravel around, it would cloud up a bit.

[angyles]

I've both mixed flourite with other substrates, and layered it. The layering was pretty successfull until I rescaped, for obvious reasons. But what I did was lay the flourite, then plant the plants, then layer the sand over top, gently getting around the plants. I didn't use white sand though, I used tahitian moon.

[Hebily]

putting a solid layer of sand or very fine gravel over decomposible matter (flourite) is dangerous. The sand layer can trap the tiny bubbles of hydrogen sulfide that form from decomp, and cause them to build up until they are released into the water column in too large a quantity and kill fish.

[Flying_Diamond]

putting a solid layer of sand or very fine gravel over decomposible matter (flourite) is dangerous. The sand layer can trap the tiny bubbles of hydrogen sulfide that form from decomp, and cause them to build up until they are released into the water column in too large a quantity and kill fish.

that's why we stir. :grinno:

[Hebily]

Of course, if OP were attempting to KEEP it layered, stirring would not work.

[Star_Rider]

how about terracing
I have a friend who uses slate tiles cut to form walls(can also use slate layered if tank is large enough). he uses flourite or eco in the upper areas and sand in the lower area.

[Flying_Diamond]

poking most likely would.

[angyles]

clay decomposes? I've never heard of flourite being "decomposable matter"

it's just clay. from seachems website "Flourite®will not soften or decompose to an unsuitable state"

[bazil323]

I see no problem mixing it. I've mixed substrates with regular gravel, laterite, and even sand without any problem, and using those cheaper (gravel or sand) options help to stretch your dollar. Besides, you'll eventually need to dose ferts even if using a pure Flourite or Eco Complete, etc. plant substrate as the plants will be gradually eating up the ferts that are in it.

My advice for rinsing is to put the substrate in a pillow case that you are okay with throwing out. Somebody suggested it in another thread a while back, and it really works great. Much easier to stir and rinse than using a bucket. Just make sure you don't accidentally dump it out!

[nvision]

flourite does not decompose.

and i've washed tons of it, both fine gravel and sand, for years. i just couldn't understand all this fuss with washing it. this is what i do... get a bucket and pour in about 1/3 bag at a time. swirl good and here's the key tip: do not wait too long for the smudge to settle. i usually wait at most 2-3 seconds for the larger chunks to settle, then pour away the rest. what goes out are the finer pieces which causes the cloudiness when you re-agitate the tank due to rescaping, maintenance, etc.

this method is quicker, cleaner, and will also cause a loss of about 10% of your stock. after the wash water settles, you'll see a pile of mud. you could say it's a bit wasteful, but this will help you achieve crystal clear water and less pain going forward. i have never experienced cloudy water which lasts overnight even after a complete scape overhaul.

[angyles]

flourite does not decompose.

and i've washed tons of it, both fine gravel and sand, for years. i just couldn't understand all this fuss with washing it. this is what i do... get a bucket and pour in about 1/3 bag at a time. swirl good and here's the key tip: do not wait too long for the smudge to settle. i usually wait at most 2-3 seconds for the larger chunks to settle, then pour away the rest. what goes out are the finer pieces which causes the cloudiness when you re-agitate the tank due to rescaping, maintenance, etc.

this method is quicker, cleaner, and will also cause a loss of about 10% of your stock. after the wash water settles, you'll see a pile of mud. you could say it's a bit wasteful, but this will help you achieve crystal clear water and less pain going forward. i have never experienced cloudy water which lasts overnight even after a complete scape overhaul.

ditto! this is how I wash all my substrates and cloudyness has never been a problem for more than a few hours. The goal is to get anything that's willing to stay floating, out of the water. I usually wear rubber gloves and dig in there with my hands to really get stuff moving, wait 2 seconds and then dump. Yes you lose so of your stuff, but if it's willing to float, toss it out!

[Hebily]

Flourite may not produce hydrogen sulfide when it decomposes. I don't know. I do know that it will decompose. There are two problems with your logic. One, for something to not decompose, it would be inert. Things that are inert do not fertilize. Two, you say that it is 'just clay' and say that clay doesn't decompose. Go ahead and google the phrase 'decomposition of clay' and read the thousands of articles about how clay doesn't decompose.

[angyles]

clay is just small mineral particles. Flourite is considered inert.

[Slappy*McFish]

Correct.
Flourite is indeed 'inert.' It is a porous clay gravel with a higher mineral content that plants can use. It is not organic and will not decompose...ever.

[jpappy789]

O...k...

so no that its settled that fluorite does not decompose, I've decided to not mix and will not layer.

But the terracing idea is sort of what I had in mind Star rider although Im not sure what to use to separate the substrates.

Also, sort of off topic but not really...anyone have any idea where to find cheap sand that isnt low grade play sand. Id really like to find something close to white but not in 5lb bags for almost $10...or 25 bucks for 20 lbs if possible.

[Slappy*McFish]

Pool filter sand is the next best thing. I got 50 lbs for $7-8. (Home Depot)

[jpappy789]

None of the HDs in my area carry pool filter sand from what Ive seen, and the local pool place has some for cheap but I have some in my 55 gallon and its closer to play sand color.

[Slappy*McFish]

Ah, you want it 'white' white. lol. Never mind. You might have a hard time finding that cheap.

[jpappy789]

Yeah...I'd like to try something really light.

[angyles]

I once had a really WHITE white sand but I don't know where it came from...I got it from a friend who was a mason so I think it was some sort of masonry sand. Very very fine and soft and WHITE. Maybe you could call a quarry? I dunno if you have any.

the problem with it was it didn't stay white long. It seemed to age to a very yellow/off white pretty quick. I don't know if this is a problem with all white sands, but it wasn't nearly as attractive as a sand that's just the color of say aroganite to begin with.


oh one other options I've done...I dunno if you have Fred Meyer or any other one-stop shopping equivalent, but in the houseplant section they have little bags of decorative sand that I've used. You have to wash it REALLY good but it's glowing white. you don't get more white. It comes in little bags for like $2.99 each.

[jpappy789]

http://www.bigalsonline.com/StoreCatalog/ctl3684/cp18315/si1379462/cl1/carib_sea_white_marine_sand_20_lbs?&path=c3684-def-USD-16695%23%23-1%23%23-1~~q73616e64~~nc3684-def-USD-18300%23%232%23%2314&query=sand&hits=12&offset=

[jpappy789]

Ugh, with shipping its about the same price as petsmart...

[fishorama]

Different pool supply places have different color sand. You could call & ask, they usually know what color they have. Be warned, white(ish) substrate shows all the detritus.

[jamesstill84]

It took our Fluorite forever to get clean. We mixed it with Play Sand and had to wash the crap out of it too. Our tank still stayed cloudy for about 2 days and then was good to go. My plants develop roots soooo fast in Fluorite. I love it!

[Daniel K.]

If you want a very "white" sand. I bought mine at a Menard's (google it) fifty pounds of handy-sand for 5 dollars. It is very fine and white. You will want malaysian trumpet snails to keep it from compacting, also it will never stay crisp white.

[jpappy789]

MTS will not last long with my sids, and I'll probably just end up with a bunch of empty shells. I can manually stir the sand areas though...

Daniel, I cannot find the handy sand on Menards website?

[Flying_Diamond]

i dunno if it's as white as you want, but i recently bought a 50lb bag of hth pool filter sand at my local hardware store and it's the lightest stuff i've found. shows some* color, but not much imo.

[jpappy789]

Maybe I'm just not used to Menards site...but I cannot find a place to search for all their products.

[jpappy789]

So what should I use to separate?

[jpappy789]

http://www.sks-bottle.com/340c/ClearPlasticJars.html

Looks promising for the foreground plants...now just need to figure out how to do the terracing for the stem plants in the back.

[jpappy789]

Still looking for ideas in the back...anyone?

[Star_Rider]

O...k...

so no that its settled that fluorite does not decompose, I've decided to not mix and will not layer.

But the terracing idea is sort of what I had in mind Star rider although Im not sure what to use to separate the substrates.

Also, sort of off topic but not really...anyone have any idea where to find cheap sand that isnt low grade play sand. Id really like to find something close to white but not in 5lb bags for almost $10...or 25 bucks for 20 lbs if possible.
jpap

http://www.fishkeeping.co.uk/articles_10/aquatic-terrace-within-your-aquarium.htm

this gives you an idea. I've seen this done with slate, ceramic tile. slate tile etc.

flourite in the terraced sections sand in the open sections.
as I said this is just an idea to play with.. when done right it canmake for an awesome display.

also look here

http://www.aquabotanic.com/dutchsecrets.htm

[jamesstill84]

That is a fantastic idea! Thanks very much for posting that link!

[Star_Rider]

I use acrylic pieces and driftwood. or rocks to hide it.

I took them down on rescaping and now may reuse it in a new tank. I set up for the rams I just got.
after qt I'll move the fish around.

[jpappy789]

Thanks for posting the links star rider, thats the idea that I had...although don't really want them to be that visible as in the first example. Using glass or acrylic would work seems to be the best option as its simple. Where do you get yours?

btw, got some sand from Menards. 50 lbs. of Premium White play sand for $3.99

[jpappy789]

Bumpity bump bump...

Picked up the 15 gallon today but it needs a lot of cleaning.