water main, ammonia, necrosis

dundadundun

;sup' dog? ;woof and a wwwoof!
Jan 21, 2009
4,295
2
38
S.E. PA
this sucks. my local water company is replacing some water mains in my area. after having pipes above ground for a couple of weeks i figured all was ok since measurements were fine the first couple times. did a water change last week and 2 days ago i noticed necrosis on the rear half of my farlowella (?vittata?). googling like crazy and checking disease threads and stickies on every forum i can find led me to believe it was columnaris. (thank you so much lupin) took a while because everything made mention of mouth problems and fuzzies but i found it early and neither were present. in the meantime i tested like crazy especially since columnaris is supposed to be caused by ammonia which was baffling at the time... results:
red sea; ___________ api; _____nutrafin; _____tap water;
ph 6.8-7.0 __________7 ________7
ammonia .25 _______.25 ____________________>.5
nitrite 0____________ 0
nitrate n/a _________~10
kh 2 drops (very soft)
gh 5 drops (soft)
iron 0
phosphate n/a ________2
co2 14ppm
calcium __________200ppm
chlorine 0

ok so sping water is in effect and water changes are going to be relentless for a while. i know this can be treated but maybe not at this point but he's a trooper. when i recieved him (mail order) he didn't even have a tail fin. some of it grew back but it's gone again. anyway he doesn't like prepared foods for the most part and i have a Q tank ready but it has no algae or biofilm really as nothing has been in there for a good while. this guy is my crown jewel (my baby) and other than the price of replacing all my amanos and the stress of finding more langei i'd almost rather let all the rest perish than him. i know it sounds bad but he's my buddy. i feel so awful and want him to make it. i knew i should have tested before each water change with them ripping the streets up.

please keep in mind this tank has been up and running over a year since the last rescape. it is matured and there are a lot of inhabitants that have all been in there for a while. it is overfiltered in everyway just about possible. it's a 50 gallon. i am running a cascade canister 1000 model with heater and uv sterilizer on a timer plumbed in. i also have a whisper 30/60 hob on there. everything has sump filter block, polishing pads and micron pads cut to fit and filled to the brim.

now as far as treating it i can easily go through lupins sticky and find the product he recommends... not an issue. what i need to know is do you guys think if i put my farly in a qt tank will he start to eat prepped foods again? he has not touched them in almost 2 years. i'm talking crab cuisine, spirulina, krill, bloodworms, algae wafers, tubifex, granules, flakes, brine shrimp, shrimp pellets, and any food i eat really. i pick up a different fruit or veggie everytime i run out and my guys eat that too. i keep squash, peas, banana, green beans, cucmbers and spinach at all times for fruit/veggies for them. he touches none of it and only scrubs the glass and decorations. i have stayed up all night watching him a few times and not once have caught him eating anything in the tank.

he is currently hiding behind anubias and slate caves so i will post pics later. i feel so awful.
 
tank temp... 76f. weekly water changes... 10 gal... gravel vac... clean 1 filter. no sunlight... 12 hours light on timers. water changes on tuesdays. they get fed very sparingly 4 times daily every six hours by timer and supplemented twice a week with fresh food. no treatment but i believe diagnosis is straight forward on this one. fuzzies have appeared after 2 days of necrosis... went to sleep one day he was fine... next afternoon... necrosis.

figured i should fill in the gaps and referred to the sticky for fish health diagnosis so there it is. sorry if it's a little long.
 
well i promised a pic... hand isn't so steady yet this morning and don't have time to setup light but here it is:
picture.php

this is day 3. he is going into a q tank and being treated with seachem kanaplex assuming i can find it. i want to do it this way so i can treat the water and food for columnaris and aeromonis simultaneously without harming anything. i chose to do so according to this article... http://www.flippersandfins.net/flexibacter.htm# written by Barb (a fish forum moderator) sounds familiar... hmmm.

at this point any experiences and/or pointers would help and be greatly appreciated.

i am totally surprised that 20 hours and no responses at all... i'm not gonna bug every hour but i thought forums were little help communities... idk, so frustrated and afraid for my buddy.
 
I've never dealt with this issue but I think you're doing the right thing by not putting treatment off any longer. While he can definitely go several days without a meal, he cannot keep going with that necrosis issue. Good luck to you!
 
Dun, at that pH you have especially nearing acidic side, the ammonia should be deactivated into a harmless form, ammonium but I am sure the neutral range may somehow also work on its toxic effects except not as toxic as it would have been if your pH had been on a more alkaline side.

A lot of farlowellas seem to prefer algae. Why not try to grow your own algae by placing some rocks on a bucket of water which is placed under direct sunlight? Add a handful of fishfoods as ammonia source to quickly grow the algae for your fish. Try pasting the egg yolk on the rocks as well and see if your farlo will take to it.

Either a combination of the erythromycin and tetracycline or kanamycin/kanaplex will work. Give it time. If it does not improve even slightly after 10 days, I'd try to give it a break by removing the med with water changes and carbon. After a break for the next 3-4 days with nothing but daily water changes, do another treatment using another brand of the two I recommended. I'm crossing my fingers for your poor farlo. It's a shame he has to go through all this.
 
thank you so much guys. lupin... i was really hoping you would reply.

i just now got back since after posting last. i had to take the wife to work. since then i've been dragging my kids from pet/fish store to lfs. pets plus is the only place that carries the kanaplex and by the time i got to the last place on my trip i couldn't remember what else would work. long story short almost 4 hours driving around batty with 2 kids and no meds... omg!

i have extra rocks that have been boiled so i think i'll try that. with the egg yolks can i leave those rocks dry in the sun to dry the egg. i think that's how it's done. i can grind up food matter and meds if necessary to add too correct?

will do lupin... thank you sooooooooo much.
 
Columnaris is not caused by ammonia, it's caused by a bacterium.

You don't mention the temperature; columnaris is a lot less dangerous below around 23C.
 
Ammonia doesn't cause Columnaris, but the stress it causes to the fish can weaken the fish's immune system, making it susceptible to infection.

Kanaplex is a good med for this, and as KarlTh mentioned, keep the temp down.
Pristine water is of the utmost importance. If you don't use Prime conditioner, I would get it. It will help detoxify ammonia and nitrites, if there are any traces of those toxic byproducts, for about 24 hours, giving you time to do a big water change every 24 hours if needed to keep the water clean.

Water changes don't interfere with antibiotic treatment. Just do a water change before dosing the tank, wait 24 hours and do another water change, then dose again with the antibiotic. Keep this up as long as needed.

I hope your buddy gets well, soon.
 
update:
he's in a 10 by himself. i had 2 i used for water changes. one still had the tap water with the high ammonia in it. i chose to use that one since the cycle should have been started and emptied it. i used half tank water from the 50 which by that point was almost unreadable. the other half i used spring water.
i could not find the kanaplex cause out of about 20 lfs only one carries it. i have educated about 12 stores and at least 2 of them were on the phone with their suppliers before i left. pets plus should have some in on wednesday. i am considering picking some up when they get it for the main tank cause i witnessed guppies and my betta eating the fuzzies as they floated off. would this be an issue if params are back in order? i'm thinking maybe.
karl... correct thank you. i should have used the word triggered. the ever-present bacteria is the actual cause though.
melody... yay... my support group has arrived. :headbang2:the one thing i'm going to have an issue with is keeping his temp down in the qt. the only heaters i can spare are not adjustable. that means 76f or 78f. i forget which heater does which temp... it's been a while. i'l have to drop a thermometer in today to see what i'm up against and whether i should switch heaters. as for the rest of the 50 i have listed what's in there in my tanks link. do you think i could reduce their temps if i have to treat it and they still be ok?
also will kanaplex affect my plants in any way if i have to treat the 50?


ok what i did do. the night i got my readings :eek3: i immediately treated the entire 50 with prime to get me through the night. i did find tetracycline and erythromycin. i chose to use the ones by api because the active ingredients were just that and nothing else. seems cleaner, safer, and less to worry about imo. this is in the qt ofcourse.
in the q/t i put a powerhead with venturi air (walmart version). jammed it into a white version of this:
yhst-36886742516398_2062_573195

i used the cutout center to tighten it and close the hole. then i jammed that whole setup into one of these:
bioforce_500_pre.jpg

using the weight of the whole setup and the suction cup on the power head to prop it on the bottom of the tank. then i took a precut piece of sump filter block i had in my hob and propped that in a way it keeps the whole setup against the glass securly and covers the heater from access. that should give me my good bacteria also.

the water is now green as can be and riddled with air bubbles so viewing is not that great but i think i did the best i can for him. i do have filter bags and if the ammonia spikes i can put another block in there or some gravel. now it's just dump meds, change water and wait... according to directions.

anything i missed feel free to slap it into me. any suggestions are welcomed. this is my first time with these particular issues so i'm learning here. the more or better you can straighten me out the better for me and farly... or other guys. btw he's the only fish i have that has a name. :hearts:

EDIT: oh and the necrosis already looks better... thanks again lupin!!!!! the fuzzies are just that now also it seems. as in they are no longer becoming nasty flakes and flaking off... just fuzz and not so pronounced. i'm happy with progression after less than 24 hours so far. i am crossing my fingers though.
 
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