Fishless cycling - am I doing something wrong?

[Lukara]

Hi, I've been trying to cycle my quarantine tank since October 30.

Tank information:
10 gallon aquarium
Small HOB Whisper filter with some filter media and bio balls
Water temperature 30 degrees
PH 7.2
A few handfulls of substrate with a couple of fake plants
Air pump

Fishless cycling information:
Started with NO SEEDING at all (I don't trust any established tanks in my area)
Ammonia source: Clear household ammonia
Dechorinator doesn't remove ammonia

I started the cycle on Oct 30 (Day 1) with enough ammonia to reach ~5ppm (which ended up being 5ml) and kept the ammonia level at ~5ppm. On Nov. 12 (Day 14)) I began getting nitrite readings and lowered my ammonia dose to result ~2.5 ppm. By Dec. 1 (Day 33) my nitrites went through the roof and my ammonia was testing ~0.6ppm. At this point I began testing for nitrates and had readings of 5ppm. I've been replenishing the ammonia to ~2.5 on a daily (24hr) basis. On Dec. 7 (Day 39), Ammonia = 0.6, Nitrites = ?? above test kit capacity, Nitrates = 10pmm (raised a bit). Since Dec. 7 I've been testing daily and always have the same results. My ammonia never quite measures 0, always ~0.6 - my nitrites remain through the roof - my nitrates remain at 10ppm. I've done water changes (with replacement water that matches the aquarium water) to lower nitrites and 24 hours later, the results are the same.

I'm prepared to be patient :) that's not the issue, it's just that it's now Day 50 and I'm getting concerned as to why I'm not achieving a reading of 0 ammonia yet and why my nitrites don't seem to be lowering. Am I inadvertently interrupting the process with water changes? Or are my ammonia doses at ~2.5 too large?

I would be appreciate your insight on this because I'm beginning to worry, I think I should be nearing the end of it by now, but it seems I'm still pretty much in the middle.

Thanks in advance.

[OrionGirl]

Have you tried another test kit? Test kits have a shelf life, and IME, tend to give high results once past their 'good' life span.

[Lukara]

Yes actually all 3 ( Hagen ammonia, Hagen nitrite and Aquarium Pharmaceutical nitrate) kits have run out on me during the cycle and I'm now using 3 new ones. The new ones have given me the same readings as the old ones were giving me.

[basenjib123]

I think your adding too much ammonia for the biological bed to process right now. I have a hunch that is why your levels are not dropping down to zero. I bet if you add a few small fish they will not produce the amount of ammonia that you are adding. I would stop adding ammo until you drop to zero...then add a few fish. Hope this helps, Joe.

[JSchmidt]

It would appear your tank/filter combo have maxed out on their ability to oxidize ammonia and nitrite. This is about the same thing that would happen if you added too many fish to the tank; you've exceeded the tank's capacity to grow bacteria sufficient to eat all that ammonia and nitrite. Limited space for colonization and/or limited supply of oxygen to the beneficial bacteria are holding you back, I would guess.

You can either (a) drop the ammonia dosing, to say, 1.5 ppm and see what happens or (b) add additional filtration. If you go with (a) and your ammonia/nitrite are processed within 24 hours, then you're cycled, but for a relatively modest bioload.

Just for the sake of science, I'd drop the ammonia dosage and see what happens.

Jim

[valerie]

I was having the same problem when i fishless cycled my 90g. Even when i thought my tests were reading 0 or going down they were. It jsut looked like it as the test kits couldnt' handle the amount in my tank and showed 0.

Dilute the test kits down to get a better measurement. I think I did 1 teaspoon of tank water mixed with 4 tsp distilled water and then used this mixture to test. It shoudl give you better results if your water is very high.

I was told on another board that my tank was probably cycled even thought my test didn't show it. They told me to do a very large water change(i did almost all the water) and then refill the tanka dn add enough ammonia to get 5ppm. Then wait 24hrs and test to see if the tank can eat 5ppm of ammonia in 1 day.(you can add less ammonia if you want).

All my levels were still through the roof when i did the water change. But i chenged the water and added 5ppm ammonia and the next day had zero readings. I continued adding 5ppm daily for a few more days to make sure it actaully was ok.

Sometimes fishless cycling can be weird. I fishless cycled my 58g in 12days. but when i tried my 90g it took 38days as somehow i must have added too much ammonia.My readigns were way off the charts(in the 100s).

So i would do a large water change, add enough ammnia then wait 24hrs and see waht happens.

- I'll try and find my post on the other board.It was very helpful

[valerie]

Found the post
http://forums.fishindex.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=23569
http://forums.fishindex.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=23586

And in this post is the link that helped the most
http://forums.fishindex.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=23293

[Lukara]

Thanks very much for your responses :)

Valerie, what you said is very interesting! I will do this and see what happens.

If I don't have 0 ammonia and nitrites 24 hours later, I will lessen the dose of ammonia and see how things go from there.

[valerie]

Good plan :) hope it works

[Kelly]

I just finished cycling my 29 gallon and went through much the same thing as you, although I was getting 0 ammonia. I was stuck in the Nitrite spike for AGES. I found one really helpful tip...and once I did this I got 0 nitrites in 3 days.

Bump your heater up to the mid or high 80's, that high temp seems to help the bacteria build, from what I was told. It sure helped me. I dont know if you are allready doing this, but thought I'd pass it on just in case.

I also did water changes to help drop the HIGH nitrites and nitrates. :)

Good Luck!
Kelly

[SayersWeb]

Why do fishless cycling? Why not use Bio-Spira with a moderate fish load instead? Or how about taking established filter media from another tank?

I will be starting up two 55 gallon tanks soon and plan to borrow conditioned bio-wheels from other tanks. I'm hoping that will do the trick.

[valerie]

I like fishless cycling because it lets you add alot of fish to the tank as soon as its done. This is especially helpful when dealing with aggresive fish like africans(i added africans to my 90g). You can add a large portion of the finaly stocking level, that way you aren't stuck adding one or 2 fish which will probably get picked on every few weeks.

I also added Bio media from other tanks to speed up the process(cycled my 58g in 12days and my 15g in 8). But i still wanted to do a fishles cycle to make sure there was enough bacteria to support the fish.

Some people, like me, can't get bio spira. I haven't seen it in any LFS around here. Is it even available in canada?

[SayersWeb]

Looks like Marineland will ship to you since they list Canadian provinces on their order page. Their store finder only accepts 5 digit zip codes, maybe an email to them will help?

Here's their order page -
http://www.marineland.com/Dealers/order_biospira.asp

Bio-Spira is not cheap though.... A 90 gallon dose from the LFS is $18.99!

[JSchmidt]

BioSpira does seem like a good choice if you're going for a low to moderate level of stocking. I recall reading quite a few accounts of people who still experienced a nitrite spike when using BioSpira.

For tanks that you want to stock heavily (e.g., Valerie's example) I don't know if BioSpira is up to it. Maybe if you used a double dose?

I haven't seen anyone selling near me. I wouldn't mind experimenting with it, but it sounds a bit pricey for just playing around...

Jim

[Lukara]

Well, I hoped my results would be 0 ammonia and nitrites, but of course they weren't :rolleyes:

It appears that the tank/filter combo have maxed out on their ability to oxidize ammonia and nitrite. I did a 95% water change and tested 24 hrs later. My ammo got to 0 and nitrites at least registered on the test kit as opposed to being off the charts. I lessened my daily dose of ammo to 1.5 as opposed to 2.5 and I will continue with water changes. Hopefully I'll see the end of this sometime soon!

My reasons for not using Bio Spira are the same as Valerie's, I looked and couldn't find it anywhere around my area and didn't know I could find it in Canada. Plus, I honestly don't mind going this route, I'm not in a rush and the duration of my fishless cycling process fit well with my planning schedule for my main tank. I just didn't expect this bump in the road.