Help!Need advice, not successful in SW tank

[actor21]

Ok here's the story:

I live in philippines (fish and other aquaria goodies are cheap here) and i have a 50 gal glass tank, i have been in the hobby for as long as i can remember but on fresh water, only started with SW 2years ago..

Ok here it is now. i can't seem to have success in puting up a SW tank, i have 50gals fish only tank, 30pnds of liverocks and 3inch live sand with crush corals on the top, i even used ocean water..yes..you can buy here in manila real saltwater not synthetic, but everytime i set up my tank( i usually cycle it for two weeks...o btw i have a fluval canister filter and a queen turbo skimmer and some aerators) my fish develops an itch after two or three days upon purchase, i even bought a book and have registered in a couple of internet forum like this one for help and advice but my fish just dies, i dnt know what went wrong, at first they are very active then develops a disease then dies, now i only have two fish..one butterfly and 1 blue damsel, the fish here are cheap i bought a blue koran(juv) and emperor(juv) for less than 2dollars, but the thing is, i felt frustrated everytime my fish dies..they dont last long like most of the people fish's here,(some guys have fish for 2yrs or so) but me, how come i dont have the success of getting it done, dont get me wrong guys coz i followed every single instruction found in books and internet..please help...though it's cheap to buy fish here, it has already cost me a lot because they always die, help me..please....need some advice

[OrionGirl]

2 weeks is not long enough to cycle the tank, often. You need to get a test kit and test for ammonia and nitrites. If you are not testing 0 for bothof these, adding fish won't help, because the toxins stress the fish.

2nd, the white spots are a fish parasite. It can be treated, using either hypo-salinity or medications. I would setup a quarantine tank, and treat the fish with a copper based medication for AT LEAST 4 weeks before putting them in your tank.

You'll need to slow down. As is often said, the only things that happen fast in SW tanks are bad.

[actor21]

more than 2 weeks of cycling and nitrites and amonia tester eventhough i use real saltwater(from ocean)?how come when i buy fish they dont have the sign of disease after buying it they show rapidly..is it my water?

[Kurt]

maybe need 6 weeks of cycling. Are you testing your water for salt content? How large is your tank? for evaporation must add fresh water.

[Gealcath]

1 reason is, your using real ocean water. This contains a unkown amount of viruses, diseases, and parasites. When you buy fish from a LFS the reason they dont show any signs of illness is because its useing synthetic seawater, not directly from the ocean. Freash Ocean water is not a good thing to use in a close system.

[actor21]

so using fresh ocean water is not good? in my country (philippines) all saltwater petshop use fresh sea water,i already used the "sera salt" and others, not successful also, no matter how long i cycle the tank, i do have hydrometer for salinity ang gravity, i only have nitrite test kit,. so guys anyone would suggest me which water to use? sea water or synthetic?i am so desperate that if im still not successful this time, i will drop this hobby and will be back to fresh...

[Gealcath]

Real ocean water can be ok, but you risk putting in various viruses and diseases that can cause problems. Instant Ocean salt combined with RO or Distilled water is a good type of saltwater solution.

[actor21]

distilled? that would cost me thousand of pesos for the water alone, more than 10times of the price of fish and more than double the price of Fluval, skimmer and others, is there a way which i can treat a oceanwater? for example cycle it for 1month?without putting fish?this would mean parasites would die without host right?

[OrionGirl]

I don't think it's the water. Yes, with natural water you run a risk of getting parasites, but it's a pretty low risk--parasites don't hang out where there are not fish to parasitize.

Ammonia and nitrites have little to do with the water you're using. These toxins are the result of fish being in your tank, and the bacteria that break them down are slow to develop--it can take much more than 2 weeks. Read up on the nitrogen cycle, and you'll understand why this is the probably cause.

[mogurnda]

As OrionGirl said, the problem probably isn't the source of the water, it's that the fish are severely stressed by swimming in the products of their own wastes. My theory is that one or more of the fish had a small case of cryptocaryon, and the massive stress of being in a cycling tank caused a huge outbreak.

Fish produce ammonia as a waste product. In an established tank, bacteria break it down into nitrate (N02), which is still toxic, then to nitrate (NO3), which is a lot less toxic. A new tank has few or no established bacteria. These live on surfaces, so the seawater will not help you there. There is probably a small population of bacteria in the tank now, but there needs to be a lot more.

You need a source of ammonia, such as a small fish, dead shrimp or a bottle of ammonia, and then you need to give the bacteria time to grow. Six weeks is about right. Because the process has been started by you having already added fish, it will probably take less time now. You have to monitor ammonia and nitrite to know when the tank has finished cycling.

Now, however, you also have a problem with Cryptocaryon (marine ich). If you remove all fish now, the parasites will be gone in 4-6 weeks. They probably came in with the fish, it seems unlikely that the parasites came with the water.

Here is what I would suggest.
1. Remove your fish.
2. Add a dead shrimp as an ammonia source.
3. Monitor your ammonia and nitrite.
4. When they are both zero, your tank is ready for fish (assuming you have waited long enough for the parasites to die).
5. Add fish, slowly. One at a time. Don't overwhelm the system. Keep an eye on the ammonia and nitrite.

[Dabbler II]

Is this a new tank or a new used tank or was this your fresh water tank converted to a salt tank. The reason I ask is a new tank or tank converted to salt from fresh should be ok but if it is a new used tank ( that you bought used from some one else) some one may have resealed it and possably used the wrong sealant ( just a thought).
If you are just going to have fish only and you think there are parasites in the water put a UV on there that should clean out the water.

[actor21]

@to all;
thank you for your reply, i will take all your advice..to wait for my tank to be cycled, well it's pretty sad i thought i was on the right track, i guess i have to wait for 2-4 weeks, by the way i bought again fish and again they died, what a waste, now i converterted my 50 gal SW tank into a smaller 30gal, for less cycling time and will only buy around 2fish,(but not after 4weeks)i will buy those kits that u told me, it's a shame the pethouse that i bought my fish said it'ws ok to stack since i am using ocean water..again thanks for all the help

[wayne]

Well it sounds like you're on the right track - give it a month or so settle down and cycle.
I think you should also choose easier fish - it doesn't matter if they're cheap or not - butterflies and angels are not good beginner fish, and most are too big and active for your tank anyway. Try a single damsel or something equally tough and see how it does.

[mogurnda]

Hey Actor!
Great to see you back. I hope that it continues to go well for you.

[actor21]

HI guys;
I am back! i have finish cycling my tank now i have a regal angel which eat pellets and nori and a trigger(i dnt knw the exact name) and 2 damsels, i just cycle it for 2 weeks now my fish are healthy, thanks for all your help guys

[actor21]

Hi guys;
I am back my tank is ok now i have 6 small fishes in it, 1 regal angel and other damsel, i am now at least i think i am on the right track, i will keep in mind all your advice, thanks again if not for you guys i would probably wasting money upto now..thanks