Clown Loach swimming irradically

[Tay690]

Hi there,
Last night I fed my clown loaches a 1/2 shell frozen green mussel
this morning I woke up and they ate at least 1/2 of it (i was really happy because they were refusing food for about a week now)

problem is one of the clown loaches is swimming irradically when I woke up and breathing extremely fast

I watched him for about 30 minutes and he wedged himself between the heater and the glass

question I have is

Did he eat too much? maybe there was some air in the mussel?

I did thaw it out for 40 minutes before putting it in the tank and all the loaches were fine (other than the ich I've been battling for months now)

they are hiding in their cave most of the time because I removed all the enclosed ornaments as directed so I'm attributing their hiding to the drastic change in their environment

what should i do? what could it be? should I remove him before the others get sick? :help2:

[Lexi_D]

What size is the tank and what is the stocking? What are your water parameters (ammonia, nitrite, nitrate)? Is the tank cycled? I would start by removing the rest of the mussel and doing a 25-50% water change.

[Tay690]

the mussel was removed this morning before I went to work and it was in the tank for less than 12 hours...about 10 hours if i remember

params are

pH 6.8 (had a nice pH drop and it's still slowly getting up again)
Nitrite 0
nitrates 20
ammonia 0

like i said everything was normal until I fed him the 1/2 shell green mussel last night

tank is 29g standard dimensions (i know it's small I'm in the midst of fixing my 125g and I can't set it up until I move...I just don't have space for it)

I have 6 clown loaches 5 that are about 1.5-2 inches and 1 that is about 3.5 inches give or take

and that's it

[inkyjenn]

oi. your tank is waaaaaaaaay too small. are they in there for quarantine? how are you treating the ich? you may want to increase water changes until they go into a bigger tank. is there an airstone?

[milesalive]

maybe swim bladder not really sure though?

[Tay690]

I think he got his swim bladder under control now...I called my wife and he's not floating outside or close to the heater anymore...
I'm worried he went back into the cave to hide in his final moments...like most fish do before they die

I know the tank is too small...which is why I explained the situation

I'm treating the ich with salt + heat 1tsp per gallon and temp at 82f constantly

there are 2 air stones a powerhead and a filter of course

i do 2 30% water changes per week and keep the salt consistency exactly the same when I do the changes

man I wish I was at home now so I could check on him...this sucks so hard

[fishorama]

I fed scallop to my clown loaches once & the next day the second largest was dead.
Other than a feeding frenzy there were no signs of anything wrong.I don't know what happened but wondered if it may have been due to extreme overeating or fighting over a new treat. It was chopped from the same scallop (I cooked & ate the rest of it), no other fish seemed ill so I don't think it was bad.

[jm1212]

keep in mind that shellfish like scallops, etc. can go bad very quickly. leaving the food in your tank overnight probably caused some sort of water quality issue. you shouldnt put fresh food, or any food for that matter in your tank so late that you leave it in overnight. many people recommend feeding after the lights go out, but you also need to make sure that leftover food isnt rotting throughout the night. the best way to remedy this is to turn off the light for your tank 45 minutes to an hour before you go to sleep, and before you turn in check to make sure all the food is gone

[Tay690]

i thought it took 12 hours for decomposition to start?
anytime I've been advised with live food at all i've heard 12 hours max

but thanks I will do this from now on

but if it was a water quality issue then all the fish should be showing the same symptoms...not just the one guy

the other fish actually were behaving much better this morning...even with the one loach being stressed and swimming irradically they seemed much more curious and playful then the past week

I mean hopefully he's ok but I want to know how long before I should remove live food or just any food in general from the tank

does the temperature in the tank cause the decomposition to kick in faster?

it is at 82f

the mussel wasn't discoloured or anything either now that I think of it...and they looked like they just took the black part out of the mussel (which kind of looks like a snail so i can understand that lol)

It was so amusing to watch them for the first time...they were kind of scared at first like "Whoa what is that???" "Is it moving???"

they sent the big loach out to investigate while the rest of the clowns all gathered by the entrance of the cave to watch
and then the big loach would go up to the mussel...dance a little, shake his tail really fast but he wasn't swimming...just staying in one spot...then he would stop shaking his tail and dart away from it so fast I couldn't even see him

then rinse and repeat lol

lights out...i wake up and it's destroyed lol
and i picked every last piece of mussel out of the tank, at 6:30 am nonetheless lol

[angyles]

I often feed my fish cocktail shrimp and I'll leave it in there until it's gone, which often takes 24+ hours. Maybe this isn't ideal, but I'ven ever had a problem from it. Same when I add Zucchini. it'lll sometimes last 2 days.

anyway, I'm thinking this behavior actually sounds more ich related than anything. Ich often attaches to the gills of a fish, sometimes not even visible. This causes reduced functionality of the gills, the rapid breathing, etc. Because of the life cycle of the parasite, maybe the ich that was attached to his gills causing stress have now hatched because of the heat and died because of the salt and he's now feeling better.

[Tay690]

that actually makes a lot of sense because his gills have been red for a few days now that I think about it

i thought maybe he had gill flukes but since I'm dealing with ich that actually makes a lot of sense

I even distinctly remember him (now that you got me thinking about the red gills) coming out at the entrance of the cave about 4 or 5 days ago and huffing and puffing and staring at me...i thought it was possibly because the big loach pushed him out of his favourite hiding spot...but what you say fits the scenario perfectly

is there anything I can do in the future to help make sure the food is bacteria free etc? would boiling it be beneficial?

[angyles]

I don't know that I would worry about the food bacteria, but if you want to make sure it's safe then just nuke it for a minute...or boil it. I really don't think the food was your problem here though

[Tay690]

well he's still alive the next morning but the condition seems worse...his body looks very stiff
like he's unable to swim...
spines are exposed again and he's breathing quite fast...although not as fast as yesterday
his body wasn't stiff like that yesterday morning

what else could it be? not seeming like ich in the gills anymore unfortunately

[Tay690]

Well I'm about ready to give up...:huh:

I think I might just take the loaches somewhere and drop em off...I don't know what to do with this strain of ich anymore

I swear to god we must have tried everything by now...and I really am not looking forward to starting a 4th thread tbh

at least if I take them to a fish store they might have better luck eradicating this ridiculously resistant strain of ich...and the loaches are suffering (especially the sick guy) and I honestly can't even bear to watch the poor guys suffer anymore

anyone live in Toronto, Canada?

[IceH2O]

I think he got his swim bladder under control now...I called my wife and he's not floating outside or close to the heater anymore...
I'm worried he went back into the cave to hide in his final moments...like most fish do before they die

I know the tank is too small...which is why I explained the situation

I'm treating the ich with salt + heat 1tsp per gallon and temp at 82f constantly

there are 2 air stones a powerhead and a filter of course

i do 2 30% water changes per week and keep the salt consistency exactly the same when I do the changes

man I wish I was at home now so I could check on him...this sucks so hard


Well I'm about ready to give up...:huh:

I think I might just take the loaches somewhere and drop em off...I don't know what to do with this strain of ich anymore

I swear to god we must have tried everything by now...and I really am not looking forward to starting a 4th thread tbh

at least if I take them to a fish store they might have better luck eradicating this ridiculously resistant strain of ich...and the loaches are suffering (especially the sick guy) and I honestly can't even bear to watch the poor guys suffer anymore

anyone live in Toronto, Canada?



You need to raise the temp to 86 and increase the salt to 2 tsp per gallon. Did it with m,y loaches and haven't seen ich since and its been over 2 yrs.

[mel_20_20]

Taylor, I'm so sorry you're still having the difficulties with Ich. I'm so sorry about your poor guy, he sounds like he feels awful.

I did 86 to 87 degrees and 2 tsp per gallon for three weeks. (After three weeks of Ich Attack)

I haven't seen any more signs of Ich, though there's this one spot on one of the fin rays right at its base. KarlTH suggestion an exit wound, and I hope that's what it is, but it has not changed and I don't know for sure what it is.

You could try the increased heat and upping the salt, but if he eventually gets to the point where you think his suffering is unbearable you might consider euthanasia.

[Tay690]

Well well well,

Guess who fixed the dieing loaches problem? I DID!
and I suspect it was ich in the gills...
the new cave I put in that allows water to flow through has a little nook close to the top exit of the cave...it's kind of hollowed out around the interior and the sick guy kept wedging himself in there ALL DAY

so I removed the cave last night after a severe WC and this morning he was absolutely fine...no symptoms like the previous mornings whatsoever

he's schooling with the others and foraging for food...swim bladder is absolutely perfect...and I couldn't be happier

the loaches are pretty upset because there are no hiding spots at the moment...so the big guy is hiding behind the filter with his buddy and they won't let anyone else hide there...I might have to grab a piece of slate this weekend and lean it against the glass so at least they have somewhere to hide...but I'm really hesitant to do so because of the issues I've been having with enclosed areas re-infecting my fish

but long story short... HE'S OK! AND I'M SUPER HAPPY HE DIDN'T DIE!

still no loach casualties *knock on wood*

[mel_20_20]

Hi Tay... how are things going for your big guy? I hope the dang Ich varmints have been run out of town. (uh oh... I was watching a western, lol)

Seriously though... I hope things are better. Give us an update, please, when you can.

[Tay690]

Things are better in the tank now

A different baby loach died 2 days ago...but the one that was swimming irradically that day seems to be absolutely fine

ever since the baby loach died the other 4 loaches have been outside so much...eating properly and schooling together...they eat anything I put in the tank as often as I put it in the tank...I'm so happy

it's amazing...i'm so happy to see their personalities coming back now...I was worried they were all going to die

The ich is gone and has been gone for about 1.5 weeks now...I'm planning to start lowering the salt concertration slowly over the next 1.5 months

and YAY it's gone...I shouldn't count my blessings yet...but their behaviour is leading me to believe that they are completely healthy and happy

even though the water conditions aren't pristine...I stripped too many nitrates about a week ago and started a mini cycle in the tank

but I figure as long as the fish are eating and schooling...I'd rather have nitrites in my water then have unhappy unhealthy loaches in my tank...especially since they haven't been eating for the past 3 weeks or so

so other than that everything seems to be going in the right direction

I got a 55g tank the other day but I have absolutely no space to set it up...anywhere

I'm trying to get rid of this loveseat in my living room because we are moving in about 2 months and that loveseat isn't coming with us...so if I can get rid of that I will setup the 55g and start cycling that

Or I might just wait until I move to avoid the hastle of keeping the nitrates alive / wet during the move

I guess that all depends on how the loaches are doing

but all in all...I can safely say that the ich is visibly gone...and I'm praying it doesn't come back EVER!

I will start treating the guppy tank after I move and the loach tank has all the salt completely removed...so in about 1.5-2 months time

The guppies I don't have to use salt though...any suggestions on what to treat the guppy tank with? I want the treatment to be short and sweet and as painless for both parties as humanly and fishly possible lol

thanks for all the support

Sincerely,
Taylor