View Full Version : Mafia 54:Vampires Return (The Play)
rich311k
08-26-2009, 9:07 AM
Why could zaffy not been the vamp from the start? We have no idea if we got the original vamp or not.
I am not completely convinced on Zaffy either. I just don't have a better candidate.
Although... that would assume that we got JM the day he was turned- and we all suspected he was a vampire before then...
Still doesn't matter- Zaffy could have been the day five pick. Or- horror scenario because it would imply the vampires still have a lead vamp change... Zaffy could have been lead all along (don't think so because of end of day one snaffu). JM could have been end of day two pick. And Ogre could have been the new vampire on day 5.
Why could zaffy not been the vamp from the start? We have no idea if we got the original vamp or not.
I am not completely convinced on Zaffy either. I just don't have a better candidate.
He could have been vamp from the start- but remember the end of day one.
Dangerdoll, Kash, and Zaffy were looking likely to have a threesome. Zaffy backed out and pushed Dangerdoll into the fore.
That little stunt almost got Zaffy lynched. I think were Zaffy the lead vampire at that point the other vampires would have more likely taken the heat from Zaffy instead.
However- in defence of the Zaffy as lead vampire from day one theory... JPappy and Ogre both tried really hard to get Noodle as the main target that day and frame her.
This worked in completely making everyone forget about Zaffy. Obviously it is impossible that both Pap and Ogre were vamps at that time IF Zaffy were lead vampire... only 3 vamps and we know JL was one. BUT- one or the other could have been a vampire at that point.
I just think it unlikely Zaffy was lead vampire from the start- possible but unlikely. If he is a vampire I think it more likely he was picked up day two or later.
lanimret
08-26-2009, 9:19 AM
I need to understand the lesser vampire thing.
Ogre and JM were both "vampires" which would imply they weren't turns? Or weren't recent turns?
If so, that pretty much guarantees they were the 2 vampires remaining after JL was lynched.
If so, Zaffy has to be a more recent turn than that, and that seems a bad move by the vamps.
There is ONE lead vampire at all times- all other vampires are lesser vampires. The lead vampire can pass on the lead vampire to any of the other vampires ONE time. After that event the lead vampire stays lead vampire until the end of the game.
If we kill the lead vampire the game ends.
Ogre and JM were both lesser vampires when we killed them- that does not mean that neither of them ever held the lead vampire role- one might have at one point (in fact my guess is Ogre was lead vampire at the start of the game).
lanimret
08-26-2009, 9:51 AM
There is ONE lead vampire at all times- all other vampires are lesser vampires. The lead vampire can pass on the lead vampire to any of the other vampires ONE time. After that event the lead vampire stays lead vampire until the end of the game.
If we kill the lead vampire the game ends.
Ogre and JM were both lesser vampires when we killed them- that does not mean that neither of them ever held the lead vampire role- one might have at one point (in fact my guess is Ogre was lead vampire at the start of the game).
So why does Ice use the terms "vampire" for ogre and JM, but "Lesser-vampire" for JL/Jpap etc?
If it's just an inconsistent convention then I call bad form on the GM's part, that is misleading.
Coler
08-26-2009, 10:10 AM
OK both sides have a certain point.
Lami is proceeding on the basis that lesser vampire versus 'vampire' means something. I can see why he might assume that - it only occurred to me just now as I went through the nightfalls.
Wycco has shown that if lesser vampire = vampire (i.e. 'lesser' is of no significance) Zaffy could easily be a vampire notwithstanding the other proven vamps.
I think lesser is not of significance but I am going to check the rules again
Wycco
08-26-2009, 10:13 AM
I don't know that I agree Lan- in the rules on page one he uses the terms lesser-vampire and vampire interchangably as well. Might be worth in future games the rules specify that the term "vampire" and "lesser vampire" refer to any vampire who is not the lead- but I don't think it is a problem- or has affected votes any.
Coler
08-26-2009, 10:13 AM
[
You are a Vampire. You are a force of darkness that delights in the stalk and the kill. Your fellow vampires are XXX, etc. You may communicate outside of the thread with these individuals. Each night, you will decide on a villager to stalk and kill/ try to turn.The game starts off with just 2 Vampires the Lead and 1 person of his choosing then the LV will choose a person to turn for the 1st 2 nights of which nothing can stop this choice except a lynching.
You are the Lead Vampire. You are the leader of this group of vampires. Your fellow vampires are XXX, etc. You may communicate outside of the thread with these individuals. Each day start, you will decide on a villager to stalk and kill.The 1st 2 nights are automatic turns nothing can stop this,except a lynching, from that point on it becomes a 50/50 chance at death or a turn(who now works for you and may not communicate this fact to anyone else). If you are killed the game ends and all the vampires you turned are returned to innocence. You will start out with YOU and 1 person of your choice at game start. IF you choose the HUNTER,SEER or PRIEST in the 1st 2 days they keep their roles but work for the Vampires.
The Lead Vampire will show as innocent the 1st 2 days/nights. He also has the ability to switch 1 time positions with someone on his team.
The LV needs to send in his choice for a turn at day start, if the Villagers lynch this person the LV loses a chance at a free Lesser vampire.
If the top
[/SIZE]
Lami may well be on to something...note that the PM's went out as 'you are a vampire' to the person chosen by the LV. Then the reference to 'lesser vampire' is made for the in the last bit quoted above...hmmm...it seems reasonable to ask Ice to tell us whether the role description of 'vampire' is of any significance to that of a 'lesser vampire'.
If this is the case (i.e. lesser vamp is not the same as vamp) then huge kudos to Lami.
Wycco
08-26-2009, 10:15 AM
If the terms do mean something different it would be usefull to know as that COULD potentially change things.
Wycco
08-26-2009, 10:22 AM
So if "lesser" means someone who was turned- and the absence means they were that at the start- that means:
Before Day one began - Ogre and JM were the two originals... most likely with Ogre as lead.
Day one pick- had to be JL.
Day two pick had to be JPap (since he was lynched next)
Day three we got Jpap
Day four- we got JL.
Day five ??? was turned we lynched ZS.
Day six we got Ogre ??? was tuurned.
You're right though... if vampire means they were not "turned" after game start Zaffy could not have been turned before day 5.
That doesn't mean innocent though... and I think I listed Zaffy as one of my "less likely" of the "Ogre/JM/ZSand/Zaffy" four main suspects and so they might have thought I wouldn't investigate him. It would mean to ignore evidence before day 5 on Zaffy though.
Thing is- I wasn't sure on Zaffy before day start- but his defence today has made me lean a little more to guilty.
lanimret
08-26-2009, 11:01 AM
Another minor question. If you were to lynch someone the day they were turned, they would show as innocent right? Because the turn comes after the lynching.
So anyone that showed up as a lesser-vampire theoretically had to have been so since atleast the prior nightfall?
If the lesser-vampire thing and that turns out to be the case, then we can narrow thing's down quite a bit.
rich311k
08-26-2009, 11:03 AM
Another minor question. If you were to lynch someone the day they were turned, they would show as innocent right? Because the turn comes after the lynching.
So anyone that showed up as a lesser-vampire theoretically had to have been so since atleast the prior nightfall?
If the lesser-vampire thing and that turns out to be the case, then we can narrow thing's down quite a bit.
That is the order of events the turning would come after the lynch so they would be innocent.
Coler
08-26-2009, 11:08 AM
Yeh...if the hit/turn victim gets lynched, the LV has no chance at a turn & loses the hit.
That's worth looking at a bit...LV would prefer to shoot at a person unlikely to be the subject of the lynch.
rich311k
08-26-2009, 11:11 AM
Problem is we only had two nights were it was not a landslide.
rich311k
08-26-2009, 11:14 AM
I feel bad but I really don't have a good idea. If I had to pick two I would say Annie and zaf but not sure how much sense that makes.
Coler
08-26-2009, 11:16 AM
Just replaying the Ogre lynch. Bearing in mind that there was Ogre, plus JM now dead known vamp, plus one more and then plus a turn, that means that on this nightfall there was just the one unknown vampire (Ogre and JM making up the trio).
I'd say focusing around this time might prove fruitful as there are basically less variables....factoring in also the fact that we have Wycco as a known innocent at this time (I still think wycco is innocent but trying to deal with empirical fact as much as possible) that leaves me with Ogre, JM, Wycco and myself as persons who's status is certain for my purposes.
That means it was one of you guys here :
Annie
Kash
Zaffy
Rocker
Lanimret
Rich
Paperdragon
In fact...you now know for a fact that I was certainly innocent on that nightfall - so even if you want to consider me possibly turned last night, which I was not, each of you can take my name off the list for the remaining vamp at this time. Each of you who are innocent can also take your own name off. What that means is that you will be operating from a total of 6 suspects only.
My advice is to process the game as much as possible up until that nightfall and pick your best choice from the 6 names you are left with and that is the one to vote for - that point in time is the instant where thus far we have had least variables to deal with.
For what its worth posts which drew my attention in particular in relation to the Ogre vote were :
:rofl: settle down wycco,im here lol, I Vote to lynch ogre, voting on someone else isnt going to do much.
Just very late to the dance...yeah could have been for whatever reason but y'know
i retract my vote for zaffy and vote to lynch ogre
may as well.
Rocker was very late to the dance on Ogre.
Obviously JM gets on Ogre just for the look of the thing initially. One wonders whether his vote on Zaffy is not meant to immunise Zaffy in the likely event of JM being dead in the next lynch (he wouldn't of course have known he was going to be shot by the hunter).
Kinda still leading me to Zaffy as the remaining vamp on that night.
Coler
08-26-2009, 11:20 AM
Wasn't I in fact investigated last night and came up innocent ? Yeah that would make more sense - ok so you can definitely all remove me from your list on the Ogre lynch night, and your own, and JM and Ogre, and Wycco, and that will leave you with just six suspects one of whom was the remaining vamp (and in fact for what it is worth, one further of those names is the new turn).
So two from six...can't be that hard to collectively work out.
It would help me a lot if each person in that mix gave up their top two and no more than two suspects.
Wycco
08-26-2009, 11:20 AM
/ GAME OFF /
I just had an awesome idea for a mafia type game- does anyone know where the main thread for upcoming hostings is and how to sign up as narrator.
Premise is: Town has had a lot of unusual deaths lately- and they don't know why.
They won't know what kind of foe is hitting them until they catch one of the bad guys.
There is a bit more too it than that- but I don't want to go into more depth as it would spoil the mystery.
The only KNOWN role to everyone at the start of the game is "The Mayor" - (you won't know who is picked as the Mayor- but the purpose of the Mayor is to keep me straight... so that SOMEONE other than me knows the rules ) ;)
The Mayor will know the entire plot and the rules of the game and what roles have been assigned (but not to whom). The only rule is- the Mayor is not allowed to tell anyone who the enemy is- or what roles exist. The rest of the town will slowly figure out what is hitting them... but will it be too late?
There is a big twist to the game- but saying it would ruin the fun... the Mayor will know the twist from day one.
/ GAME ON /
Coler
08-26-2009, 11:22 AM
Durn it I keep having ideas.
I think Annie was likely to have been innocent at the point where Ogre was being lynched i.e. prior to last night's turn.
The reason being Annie was posting a bit and JM got all involved stating at one point that Rich and I ought to be all over this. Bearing in mind that they would have liked to do something to save Ogre etc. I would see this as more likely to be JM having a go at an innocent than anything else, if you wanted to factor that into your deliberations on who is likely to be the one from six who was a vampire at that time.
rich311k
08-26-2009, 11:25 AM
It would almost be worth it now for hunter and priest to come forward, of course if we are wrong the priest is toast.
Back for some more reading.
Wycco
08-26-2009, 11:41 AM
Annie:
I think Annie is a likely suspect and one of my top three. She did suddenly get more talkative yesterday and any change in behaviour is odd. I also get suspicious based on the compliments as if trying to make me not suspect them. Ogre's comment on investigating "Coler or Annie" made me suspect one or the other may be guilty.
Kash
Wouldn't surprise me if Kash was turned last night- in fact- I'm sure the Vampires had to consider her- given the fact that she was being considered as an almost certain "innocent".
Zaffy
Zaffy, I'm not as convinced as many on Zaffy- especially since the lack of attempt to save him, unless that is what Lan is doing. I think other than that- we know JM switched his vote off Zaffy- but at the same time JM had to switch to someone. I think Zaffy is a possible target- but I'm not certain of him.
Rocker
Rocker's late appearance scared me- was he waiting for instruction? Did he think he was dead and not turned and had to be PMed to reappear? The fact he was on the forum but not posting to Mafia made me suspicious... or was he just busy? It's hard to tell- but chalk Rocker up alongside Zaff and Angie as prime suspects for me.
Lanimret
I think Lan might have been a turn from last night. I also think if Zaff is guilty that Lan is guilty. However, if Zaff is innocent I don't think we can really say anything about Lan. Is the late trying to clarify rules a ploy to make us not suspect Zaff? Hard to tell. Lan is above most people's suspicions right now- which makes him a perfect turn suspect.
Rich
I don't know. Always have to suspect him. But it's hard to pin anything down on him- his posts sometimes appear suspicious even when not guilty. Was the call for the hunter to shoot JM distancing- or a call to rational. Rich could be the lead or the lesser vampire- or innocent.
Paperdragon
Paper Dragon is not suspected by anyone- she would make the perfect turn candidate... along with Lan and Kash- I suspect she would be one of the three most likely turns for last night.
I don't think she was turned the night before though- so I suspect if she's guilty she's not the lead.
That's my summary:
Zaff, Annie, or Rocker for Lead.
Lan, Kash, or PD as the lesser vampire.
I trust no-one at this point other than Coler- and only he because I investigated him. Tomorrow I can't say the same- I think Coler is the ideal target for tonight.
We still don't know the hunter. If the hunter came forward we would have one more known innocent.
Wycco
08-26-2009, 11:45 AM
It would almost be worth it now for hunter and priest to come forward, of course if we are wrong the priest is toast.
Back for some more reading.
Personally, I think the priest coming forward would be a TERRIBLE mistake. Zaff is far from certain- as is anyone else we pick today.
rich311k
08-26-2009, 11:52 AM
Personally, I think the priest coming forward would be a TERRIBLE mistake. Zaff is far from certain- as is anyone else we pick today.
The idea being that narrows the lit even more. I did say it was dangerous as well.
rich311k
08-26-2009, 12:36 PM
I was thinking that it would get us down to 4 possibles. Did not really think the whole thing through just an idea.
Coler
08-26-2009, 12:53 PM
Rich....the priest coming forward is a disaster end of. This should only be done if the town was, on foot of a credible revelation, mathematically certain to win the game (i.e. LV lynch).
rich311k
08-26-2009, 1:15 PM
Rich....the priest coming forward is a disaster end of. This should only be done if the town was, on foot of a credible revelation, mathematically certain to win the game (i.e. LV lynch).
I gather it was just a thought. If you are down to 4, the next night 3 etc. odds are not bad you get them before they get you. Provided of course the LV switch already happened once.
I agree not the best of ideas.
rich311k
08-26-2009, 1:19 PM
I gather it was just a thought. If you are down to 4, the next night 3 etc. odds are not bad you get them before they get you. Provided of course the LV switch already happened once.
I agree not the best of ideas.
and of course the two rolls would have to be on your list of 6 as well. Ok the more I think of it the more variables involved.
never mind, carry on.
lanimret
08-26-2009, 1:55 PM
If I had to pick two suspects, and I admit the reasoning is seriously subjective, but really that is all we have at this point.
Kashta - Were i the lead, thats who I would have chosen. She was found innocent once (after being heavily suspected) giving her a lot of leeway. One of the most experienced players, and a perfectly capable LV for switching with.
Annie - Her posts recently and vigor in her accusations make me suspect. I doubt she's the LV though, highly.
I wouldn't completely rule out Zaff, Rich, Rocker, or paper, but if I had to guess those are my two.
Just incase I don't get back on later, I am going to vote just so I don't end up not voting before nightfall. Seriously subject to change.
I vote to lynch Kashta
One other theory by the way, a bit out there though, is that Wycco was turned 2 turns ago after he outed himself. He then turned Coler last nightfall, and then announced him innocent in order to totally allay suspcision. This is a worst case scenario because it would mean narrowing down the suspects becomes nearly impossible, we have no hope of forming a consensus, and the vampires will win.
I could be wrong- but as I've explained before- I highly doubt Kashta is the lead vampire. It is very possible that she was turned last night- but the night before she was too quick on the ball posting a suggestion to have been turned and greeted her fellow vamps, etc... before offering JM as a lynch target.
Thus if Kashta is a vampire she is most likely only a lesser one.
Also, why do you doubt Annie could be the Lead Vampire? Most people noticed a change and started suspecting her yesterday- the vampire that is lead would be in all liklihood the one turned two nights (if not earlier) ago- not the one turned last night.
IceH2O
08-26-2009, 3:06 PM
Sorry guys... Vampire and lesser vamps are the same thing. I don't always think while running night, just trying to get it over with to get back to whatever I was doing.
Vote tally
Zaffy- Rocker Kash Rich Coler Annie Wycco
Kash- Lani
no votes:
Zaffy Paper
lanimret
08-26-2009, 3:08 PM
I could be wrong- but as I've explained before- I highly doubt Kashta is the lead vampire. It is very possible that she was turned last night- but the night before she was too quick on the ball posting a suggestion to have been turned and greeted her fellow vamps, etc... before offering JM as a lynch target.
Thus if Kashta is a vampire she is most likely only a lesser one.
You know, I don't know. I'm kind of grasping at straws here. I have no conviction on anything at the moment except that I don't think Zaff can be the LV if we are correct about the rules.
Beyond that I'm confused as hell.
I'm hoping someone can come up with a brilliant last minute deduction here that I am clearly missing.
I will say, no matter what happens, well played vamps.
lanimret
08-26-2009, 3:09 PM
Sorry guys... Vampire and lesser vamps are the same thing. I don't always think while running night, just trying to get it over with to get back to whatever I was doing.
Vote tally
Zaffy- Rocker Kash Rich Coler Annie Wycco
Kash- Lani
no votes:
Zaffy Paper
Ah hell, then all of that is out the window.
*sigh*
Kashta
08-26-2009, 4:02 PM
Two things bug me about this today... the first being, who do we kill off tonight and tomorrow night and how to make sure we've got the right people (obviously). The second, trying to figure out what the vamps were thinking earlier... and still are, as they do all this together even after they're killed. Dead or alive, it's a given that players like Jpappy, John, Ogre, and JM are still highly engrossed in current developments and the eventual outcome. They all take a keen interest in these games whether they're actively playing them, modding them... or just reading along. They also put too much time and effort into this to simply disappear and take a fully hands-off approach from that point forward.
Knowing this makes it very frustrating to look over the names of surviving players, trying to evaluate which one they picked as the LV and last night's newest turn. It's too easy to find half a dozen reasonable arguments for and against every one of us.
For all our insightful analysis here, they literally could have picked a name out of a hat. A player with experience doesn't need much help and a complete beginner would be easy for them to guide.
Thinking along these lines, it also dawned on me that they had plenty of warning that both Ogre and JM had been found LONG before they got killed. They've had more than enough time to set this up on a hunch that we won't guess how they did it. Our active players who post a lot end up drawing the most interest/suspicion... the quiet ones we'll have to pretty much kill off at random until we nail the right one.
paperdragon
08-26-2009, 4:14 PM
I vote to stake Zaffy
Sorry, no constructive comments. I've been feeling lousy all day, and my brain is too foggy to think straight (headache).
Two things bug me about this today... the first being, who do we kill off tonight and tomorrow night and how to make sure we've got the right people (obviously). The second, trying to figure out what the vamps were thinking earlier... and still are, as they do all this together even after they're killed. Dead or alive, it's a given that players like Jpappy, John, Ogre, and JM are still highly engrossed in current developments and the eventual outcome. They all take a keen interest in these games whether they're actively playing them, modding them... or just reading along. They also put too much time and effort into this to simply disappear and take a fully hands-off approach from that point forward.
Knowing this makes it very frustrating to look over the names of surviving players, trying to evaluate which one they picked as the LV and last night's newest turn. It's too easy to find half a dozen reasonable arguments for and against every one of us.
For all our insightful analysis here, they literally could have picked a name out of a hat. A player with experience doesn't need much help and a complete beginner would be easy for them to guide.
Thinking along these lines, it also dawned on me that they had plenty of warning that both Ogre and JM had been found LONG before they got killed. They've had more than enough time to set this up on a hunch that we won't guess how they did it. Our active players who post a lot end up drawing the most interest/suspicion... the quiet ones we'll have to pretty much kill off at random until we nail the right one.
naaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah....c'mon....seriously ? what is this the strategy ? scummiest thing I've seen posted today.
If I had to pick two suspects, and I admit the reasoning is seriously subjective, but really that is all we have at this point.
Kashta - Were i the lead, thats who I would have chosen. She was found innocent once (after being heavily suspected) giving her a lot of leeway. One of the most experienced players, and a perfectly capable LV for switching with.
Annie - Her posts recently and vigor in her accusations make me suspect. I doubt she's the LV though, highly.
I wouldn't completely rule out Zaff, Rich, Rocker, or paper, but if I had to guess those are my two.
Just incase I don't get back on later, I am going to vote just so I don't end up not voting before nightfall. Seriously subject to change.
I vote to lynch Kashta
One other theory by the way, a bit out there though, is that Wycco was turned 2 turns ago after he outed himself. He then turned Coler last nightfall, and then announced him innocent in order to totally allay suspcision. This is a worst case scenario because it would mean narrowing down the suspects becomes nearly impossible, we have no hope of forming a consensus, and the vampires will win.
I highly doubt wycco was turned, unless we have a mentally challenged priest. The priest is almost certainly still a townie. I'd bet that Wycco has been protected since he came out.
Y'know Zaffy,
You're not playing games are trying to pass the blame like Ogre and JohnL did. I'm also not convinced there was much evidence prior to today to lynch you- I think your early defence sounded a tad bit guilty... but I'm still not sure.
Lan is the only one half-heartedly protecting you and he is my lead suspect for who was turned last night... but... even if Lan is trying to cast doubt on your guilt- I don't think he is doing it strongly enough.
I think there is perhaps a stronger case against Rocker or Annie but I'm really not sure which.
I retract my vote on Zaffy.
I'm having precisely the same thoughts. In particular regarding Rocker.
Also...I'm just wondering...whether Kashta is trying to tell us something.
I retract my vote on Zaffy and vote to lynch Rocker
Kashta
08-26-2009, 5:18 PM
Coler asked us to post our 2 main suspects, so here's mine. In both cases, it the connection between both of them which draws my attention right now... more so than what either has said or done individually.
First we have Zaffy acting unbelieveably suspicious (or paranoid).. more than usual from what he's done in this game -- with the exception of his last-minute vote switch earlier on. But why? And why now? If nothing else, isn't this the worst possible time for him to get hit with a case of the jitters if he was really just another innocent villager? That's exactly what we're looking for as the pressure mounts on the 2 remaining vampires. And... that's how we found the last two vampires we killed.
On top of this, Zaffy got called out for the way he was acting (suspicious and evasive)... got voted on...then Lani jumped right in to his defense. Lani in a rather defiant way. When questioned further on his declarations that it's IMPOSSIBLE to even consider Zaffy a suspect, he reverted to a position that he's confused and doesn't understand what's going on. Come on... we've been doing this for a week and a half now. That's also the same argument Zaffy used to avoid answering my questions. Uhh, we must be talking about different things... and gee, I didn't notice two villagers had been turned instead of one.
Evil or innocent, it still think the two are connected somehow inside this game... not just as friends on the outside. I know the rest of you aren't sure about them either. None of us are.... I realize that too. Just as much as I wish I could zero in on something more conclusive.... it's all I've got right now. For everyone else, I'm just not sure.
lanimret
08-26-2009, 5:23 PM
Coler asked us to post our 2 main suspects, so here's mine. In both cases, it the connection between both of them which draws my attention right now... more so than what either has said or done individually.
First we have Zaffy acting unbelieveably suspicious (or paranoid).. more than usual from what he's done in this game -- with the exception of his last-minute vote switch earlier on. But why? And why now? If nothing else, isn't this the worst possible time for him to get hit with a case of the jitters if he was really just another innocent villager? That's exactly what we're looking for as the pressure mounts on the 2 remaining vampires. And... that's how we found the last two vampires we killed.
On top of this, Zaffy got called out for the way he was acting (suspicious and evasive)... got voted on...then Lani jumped right in to his defense. Lani in a rather defiant way. When questioned further on his declarations that it's IMPOSSIBLE to even consider Zaffy a suspect, he reverted to a position that he's confused and doesn't understand what's going on. Come on... we've been doing this for a week and a half now. That's also the same argument Zaffy used to avoid answering my questions. Uhh, we must be talking about different things... and gee, I didn't notice two villagers had been turned instead of one.
Evil or innocent, it still think the two are connected somehow inside this game... not just as friends on the outside. I know the rest of you aren't sure about them either. None of us are.... I realize that too. Just as much as I wish I could zero in on something more conclusive.... it's all I've got right now. For everyone else, I'm just not sure.
I think i was pretty clear, if the rules were as I though, it was impossible.
They are not, so I have absolutely no case to not suspect Zaffy at this point other than he's not who I would have picked (target on his head and all). He's been suspect form the start to me, and the only thing that changed that was cold hard facts. Those facts were based on a flawed interpretation of the rules, which I was very clear and open about, and now Zaff is right back where he was in my book.
I'm confused because at this point, I really am voting based on nothing in particular, and that sucks. We can't narrow down the candidates on anything solid, and it's frustrating.
I'm not a vampire, i know that's hallow, but it's true.
My problem with Rocker is that he hasn't contributed anything to the thread. He confirmed Kashs "other forum" post a few days ago. But other than that his content is exactly 0. I just pulled his posts, out of 31 posts most are jibber-jabber nonsense or plain minimal. He certainly hasn't helped the town at all. Ogre said he thought the vampires would sit back and laugh, does rocker fit the bill?
Annie I think could have been coached by Ogre. The recent outbursts are certainly out of character.
Paperdragon 50 posts, so more than Rocker And, more of them with some content at least. So, she's been participating.
Lani, Obviously a huge change from last night to tonight. He confirmed Wyccos list, which makes me think he's innocent. Could be a possible turn, but I think he doesn't fit the profile that they have shown they want. It's his first game and he's a little eratic.
Kash fits the bill of their previous turns, experience. She is certainly interesting in making sure I burn tonight.
As far as the hunter coming out, If wycco is in private communication then I think he/she should stay put. The priest however I think has no reason to come out at this point.
Kashta
08-26-2009, 5:25 PM
Uggh.. this game is messing with my head.
Coler, that's all I was trying to say in my earlier post. I still wonder about Rocker too. I just can't point to anything suspicious to call him up for a vote so I was going with a hunch I've got about Zaffy. Rocker doesn't post anything much that even relates to what's going on.
Coler asked us to post our 2 main suspects, so here's mine. In both cases, it the connection between both of them which draws my attention right now... more so than what either has said or done individually.
First we have Zaffy acting unbelieveably suspicious (or paranoid).. more than usual from what he's done in this game -- with the exception of his last-minute vote switch earlier on. But why? And why now? If nothing else, isn't this the worst possible time for him to get hit with a case of the jitters if he was really just another innocent villager? That's exactly what we're looking for as the pressure mounts on the 2 remaining vampires. And... that's how we found the last two vampires we killed.
On top of this, Zaffy got called out for the way he was acting (suspicious and evasive)... got voted on...then Lani jumped right in to his defense. Lani in a rather defiant way. When questioned further on his declarations that it's IMPOSSIBLE to even consider Zaffy a suspect, he reverted to a position that he's confused and doesn't understand what's going on. Come on... we've been doing this for a week and a half now. That's also the same argument Zaffy used to avoid answering my questions. Uhh, we must be talking about different things... and gee, I didn't notice two villagers had been turned instead of one.
Evil or innocent, it still think the two are connected somehow inside this game... not just as friends on the outside. I know the rest of you aren't sure about them either. None of us are.... I realize that too. Just as much as I wish I could zero in on something more conclusive.... it's all I've got right now. For everyone else, I'm just not sure.
Of course I'm paranoid. I'm being sent to my death tonight. Why tonight? because it's tonight that I'm being sent to my death. I sure was paranoid day 1 when I could have been sent to. So is today really that different?
What question did I avoid? Ask again please.
I think I pretty clearly pointed out that 2 villagers had been turned, I even quoted H2O twice confirming it.
Since you're not sure on others, are you looking at them?
In order of whom I suspect:
Lead:
1) Annie
2) Rocker
3) Zaffy
4) Rich
5) Lanimert
6) Kashta
7) Paper Dragon
Lesser:
1) Lanimert
2) Kashta
3) Rocker
4) Paper Dragon
5) Zaffy
6) Rich
7) Annie
Gosh, I'm really torn- I'd feel like crap if we let Zaffy off and he is the lead vampire- he is my third pick.
Oh gosh... I don't know...
I vote to lynch Rocker.
At least for now.
My list is assuming the lead vampire changed last night because either Ogre or JM were lead prior to that. I don't think lead has stayed consistant throughout the game.
rich311k
08-26-2009, 5:45 PM
Well you guys (Coler and Wycco ) have had a better read than me on this and I have never been thrilled with Zaffy so I retract my vote on Zaffy and vote to lynch Rocker.
Always subject to change. We have a bit to go.
lanimret
08-26-2009, 5:54 PM
I think next time we do this game we should make it so that we do in fact know if a vampire was a turn or not. There are just too many variables to really narrow anything down without that.
Really wish Rocker or Annie would respond. It would be helpful.
paperdragon
08-26-2009, 5:56 PM
I retract my vote on zaffy and vote to stake rocker
lanimret
08-26-2009, 5:57 PM
Annie was just reading the thread, she was in the viewing bar, and is now gone.
Chose not to respond.
That's pretty odd when you compare the last few days chatty Cathy mode.
IceH2O
08-26-2009, 6:03 PM
I think next time we do this game we should make it so that we do in fact know if a vampire was a turn or not. There are just too many variables to really narrow anything down without that.
*Noted*
Vote tally
Zaffy-3- Rocker Kash Annie
Kash-1- Lani
Rocker-4- Coler Wycco Rich PD
Night fall in 2 HRS
Pms as required
AnniesNotOK
08-26-2009, 6:03 PM
I vote to stake Zaffy
Sorry, no constructive comments. I've been feeling lousy all day, and my brain is too foggy to think straight (headache).
This is why you would a perfect vampire. Mama Mia Paper, is that a blood stain on your shirt???
AnniesNotOK
08-26-2009, 6:04 PM
Annie was just reading the thread, she was in the viewing bar, and is now gone.
Chose not to respond.
That's pretty odd when you compare the last few days chatty Cathy mode.
respond to what? i just got home from work, gimme three beers or so would ya??? its been a long day.
paperdragon
08-26-2009, 6:07 PM
This is why you would a perfect vampire. Mama Mia Paper, is that a blood stain on your shirt???
Oh yes, obviously all vampires have headaches. :rolleyes:
AnniesNotOK
08-26-2009, 6:09 PM
Annie was just reading the thread, she was in the viewing bar, and is now gone.
Chose not to respond.
That's pretty odd when you compare the last few days chatty Cathy mode.
you see, this post makes me very suspicious. Until now, I thought you might be innocent, since it was your first game. But since you just tried to implicate someone i know to be innocent (namely me), welcome to my suspect list
Kashta
08-26-2009, 6:09 PM
Okay, I still have faith in Wycco and Coler and sufficient suspicion of Rocker as well to support this.
I retract my vote on Zaffy and vote to stake Rocker.
To not allow the vote on rocker to be a runaway. I'll place my vote elsewhere. This is not to say that I don't suspect him for the reasons I posted. But rather in hopes that the town may learn something from any subsequent moves.
If anyone has a problem with my thinking, please let me know. I think it's fair, and good for the town.
I vote to stake Annie.
I think the evidence against Annie is weak, and circumstantial. But, at this point we don't have much more than that on anyone.
AnniesNotOK
08-26-2009, 6:10 PM
Annie was just reading the thread, she was in the viewing bar, and is now gone.
Chose not to respond.
That's pretty odd when you compare the last few days chatty Cathy mode.
Oh yes, obviously all vampires have headaches. :rolleyes:
which of your teamates told you to view the thread invisibly??? I notice several others do this too...
AnniesNotOK
08-26-2009, 6:13 PM
To not allow the vote on rocker to be a runaway. I'll place my vote elsewhere. This is not to say that I don't suspect him for the reasons I posted. But rather in hopes that the town may learn something from any subsequent moves.
If anyone has a problem with my thinking, please let me know. I think it's fair, and good for the town.
I vote to stake Annie.
I think the evidence against Annie is weak, and circumstantial. But, at this point we don't have much more than that on anyone.
My vote on you is weak and circumstantial to be honest. Ironically, Rocker would be my other choice, more of a guess than anything.
lanimret
08-26-2009, 6:20 PM
you see, this post makes me very suspicious. Until now, I thought you might be innocent, since it was your first game. But since you just tried to implicate someone i know to be innocent (namely me), welcome to my suspect list
Wow, I would hope everyone is on your suspect list, they are all on mine.
I retract my vote for Kashta and vote to stake Annie.
My only evidence on Kastha is she is who I would have chosen. Thanks for something to go one atleast.
Kashta
08-26-2009, 6:26 PM
What question did I avoid? Ask again please.
Zaffy, it's a little late now. It's a little taken out of context, but here's what you posted.
How do we know it is JM?
My question following that was this:
Zaffy, are you trying to tell us it's not JM?
(BTW... I messed up the quote tags there and didn't want to go look for it again.)
Anyway, Zaffy.. your response to that never answered it. I wanted to establish your position on JM. I felt he was definitely a vampire at that point. I repeated it again, you didn't answer then either.
AnniesNotOK
08-26-2009, 6:27 PM
which of your teamates told you to view the thread invisibly??? I notice several others do this too...
PD i know you are posting invisibly. Several others are doing this too. Probably people that have been evil before and switched it off. Is this your first game??? If it isn't, I'm wondering why you've done this.
Wow, I would hope everyone is on your suspect list, they are all on mine.
I retract my vote for Kashta and vote to stake Annie.
My only evidence on Kastha is she is who I would have chosen. Thanks for something to go one atleast.
Uh huh. Everybody is, Coler and Wycco exempted. So tell me what you're thoughts are on PD???
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Lot of dead people reading this thread right now... I'd love to know what they're thinking.
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Kashta
08-26-2009, 6:32 PM
Wow.. the vote switching is going full steam.
rich311k
08-26-2009, 6:33 PM
I am invisible and have been since my first mafia game when RB told me to do it. I never got around to turning it off.
Rich makes a good point PD... why the invisibility?
Rich makes a good point PD... why the invisibility?
I think the invisibility stops people from seeing what your current activity is.
For example, If I were reading or writing a PM, you could see that by looking at my public profile. If I were invisible you couldn't see that.
JL and Ogre at least are not, and were not invisible. And there are a lot of reasons to read/write PMs on this board that have nothing to do with Mafia. So, I'm willing to discount that as a non-issue. But, that's me.
Arrggg... do I switch again to Annie or stay with Rocker. Now would be a good time if either of you is the hunter to let me know- naturally I reserve the right to investigate you next round to see if you're telling the truth.
Kashta
08-26-2009, 6:44 PM
I switched my account to invisible before I started playing mafia games.. so it's unrelated.
AnniesNotOK
08-26-2009, 6:46 PM
I vote to stake Zaffy
Sorry, no constructive comments. I've been feeling lousy all day, and my brain is too foggy to think straight (headache).
When i read this post, I looked down to see if PD was viewing the thread. She wasn't. I decided not to respond to it, because i thought she wouldn't read it anyway. She votes Zaffy but no reasoning as to why.
I retract my vote on zaffy and vote to stake rocker
Only a few minutes later, even though her brain is "to foggy to think straight" she has come up with a new suspect, and changed her vote to him. No explanation as to why.
This is why you would a perfect vampire. Mama Mia Paper, is that a blood stain on your shirt???
I notice she is viewing the thread invisibly. She's not the only one. Several are doing this. While there are only 2 vamps, the others must not have turned it on after they have been evil. I look down, her name isn't there. Hmmmmmmmmm
Oh yes, obviously all vampires have headaches. :rolleyes:
Well if you didn't before, you sure will now...
which of your teamates told you to view the thread invisibly??? I notice several others do this too...
I ask her to respond as to why, in her first game, she has posted invisibly. I have had no response.
Lot of dead people reading this thread right now... I'd love to know what they're thinking.
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Exactly. Lots of undead still watching too. I'm not certain Zaffy is a vamp at this point, I'm not certain of anything, but I thought that's what this game was all about.
This is sure to get me lynched, but what the hell. Noone in this town really likes me anyway.
I retract my vote on Zaffy and vote to lynch Paperdragon.
AnniesNotOK
08-26-2009, 6:48 PM
I switched my account to invisible before I started playing mafia games.. so it's unrelated.
My reasoning is, its a good move, if you're evil. either she is evil her first game, or someone told her to turn it on
rocker92
08-26-2009, 6:49 PM
gee, thanks for the support guys, but seriously, i will try to explain and prove my innocence(like you are going to believe me tho.)
yesterday i kinda lost interest in the game, why i dont know. i also didnt vote for ogre earlier because i needed a break from the game. simple as that.
today i wasnt around because my grandparents have some people up from florida. i was gone all day and didnt read the thread untill now.
i do think zaffy is guilty as can be, i also have bad feeings about annie, kash, and lami. in that order, im not changing my vote off of zaffy.
if you feel it is nessary to lynch me tonight, just realise one thing, you are lynching another innocent.
That works for me Rocker.
I retract my vote to lynch Rocker and vote to lynch Annie.
AnniesNotOK
08-26-2009, 6:57 PM
That works for me Rocker.
I retract my vote to lynch Rocker and vote to lynch Annie.
Very well. In the meantime, what do you think about my post on PD???
Kashta
08-26-2009, 7:00 PM
My reasoning is, its a good move, if you're evil. either she is evil her first game, or someone told her to turn it on
Annie, that's really not a real good basis for argument in this... all by itself.
Either way, it's a pure leap to judge someone evil based on whether or not they've gone invisible. Our game mod is the one who recommended it in our rules.... see quote below.
Mafia 54: Vampires Return
1) use thread information only. [Being invisible* is great, I encourage it. Teams need to figure out how they will communicate, if you're invisible, PMs should be OK. I've also used AIM and Yahoo messenger w/ e-mails. whatever your team wants to do.]
I think it very possible that the vampires converted PD last night- I just don't see PD as the lead vampire at this point- I don't think they would have gone for her two nights ago.
Just a hunch.
paperdragon
08-26-2009, 7:08 PM
I've been invisible since last fall when I discovered it was possible to be invisible. Looooooong before I signed up for this game.
As for voting without reason, Wycco's proven himself innocent for the last few nights, and I don't believe he's been turned now, so I'm just copying him so I don't have to think too hard. :p
Speaking of which...
I retract my vote to stake Rocker and vote to stake Annie.
I also vote for Excedrin extra strength.
AnniesNotOK
08-26-2009, 7:08 PM
I think it very possible that the vampires converted PD last night- I just don't see PD as the lead vampire at this point- I don't think they would have gone for her two nights ago.
Just a hunch.
So the you see me as lead vampire??? And I'm making a case against the one I turned last night, making a singleton vote to do it, and I'm on a team the best of the best, who are coaching me to do this....Uh, yeah, that just might work...
Truth is I'm confused as anybody. However, the fact that PD voted Zaffy and Rocker almost immediately after each other, is very suspicious to me, and she is posting just enough to get by. Invisibly. I'm more sure of my vote on her than I was on Zaffy. I think you should investigate her tonight.
AnniesNotOK
08-26-2009, 7:09 PM
I've been invisible since last fall when I discovered it was possible to be invisible. Looooooong before I signed up for this game.
As for voting without reason, Wycco's proven himself innocent for the last few nights, and I don't believe he's been turned now, so I'm just copying him so I don't have to think too hard. :p
Speaking of which...
I retract my vote to stake Rocker and vote to stake Annie.
I also vote for Excedrin extra strength.
Oh there you are...
noodles62
08-26-2009, 7:09 PM
:popcorn:
AnniesNotOK
08-26-2009, 7:09 PM
I've been invisible since last fall when I discovered it was possible to be invisible. Looooooong before I signed up for this game.
As for voting without reason, Wycco's proven himself innocent for the last few nights, and I don't believe he's been turned now, so I'm just copying him so I don't have to think too hard. :p
Speaking of which...
I retract my vote to stake Rocker and vote to stake Annie.
I also vote for Excedrin extra strength.
Jump on PD, the trains a leavin'
AnniesNotOK
08-26-2009, 7:13 PM
I've been invisible since last fall when I discovered it was possible to be invisible. Looooooong before I signed up for this game.
As for voting without reason, Wycco's proven himself innocent for the last few nights, and I don't believe he's been turned now, so I'm just copying him so I don't have to think too hard. :p
Speaking of which...
I retract my vote to stake Rocker and vote to stake Annie.
I also vote for Excedrin extra strength.
Any other suspects??? Rocker and Zaffy again maybe???
Jump on PD, the trains a leavin'
If Zaffy, Rocker, or Annie are guilty I think PD is probably innocent- she voted for Zaffy. She helped put Rocker ahead when Zaffy was the lead player- and now she just helped tie up the Annie vs Rocker vote... I think PD is probably in the clear.
AnniesNotOK
08-26-2009, 7:17 PM
I've been invisible since last fall when I discovered it was possible to be invisible. Looooooong before I signed up for this game.
Possible, unlikely, but possible.
As for voting without reason, Wycco's proven himself innocent for the last few nights, and I don't believe he's been turned now, so I'm just copying him so I don't have to think too hard. :p
I thought that was a good idea too, until I found my own suspect.
Speaking of which...
I retract my vote to stake Rocker and vote to stake Annie.
I also vote for Excedrin extra strength.
my comments above
AnniesNotOK
08-26-2009, 7:20 PM
If Zaffy, Rocker, or Annie are guilty I think PD is probably innocent- she voted for Zaffy. She helped put Rocker ahead when Zaffy was the lead player- and now she just helped tie up the Annie vs Rocker vote... I think PD is probably in the clear.
And what if all three are innocent???
lanimret
08-26-2009, 7:20 PM
On another note, my suggestion for investigation this evening would be Kashta.
She was found innocent once already, were I the LV, that would have been my choice for a turn first thing.
Who's got a vote tally.
I'm innocent and have no kudos to gain from helping out with one.
Annie:
And what if all three are innocent???
I don't know. If all three are innocent then PD might be guilty. Statistically though- even if who was guilty and innocent was randomly assigned there would still be a 50% chance the lead vampire is in that trio... all three though are based on guilty behaviour so I would say there is greater than 50% chance one of them is guilty.
On another note, my suggestion for investigation this evening would be Kashta.
She was found innocent once already, were I the LV, that would have been my choice for a turn first thing.
Noted- and I agree we can't trust her.
However... what I'd love to see is a Rocker/Annie tie... I think there is a good chance one is Lead Vampire so it would be interesting to see who jumps first. I think it would be a good tactic for the town to adopt for the night.
Who's got a vote tally.
I'm innocent and have no kudos to gain from helping out with one.
If I'm counting correctly:
Zaffy 2
Rocker 4
Annie 4
AnniesNotOK
08-26-2009, 7:27 PM
On another note, my suggestion for investigation this evening would be Kashta.
She was found innocent once already, were I the LV, that would have been my choice for a turn first thing.
I agree with this reasoning, although I'm kinda glad its not my choice, as I would be loathe to chose. At this point I'd chose PD, or Coler again, since if they try to turn him, the seer will see last as I read it. I think its important to keep Coler on our team, he's obviously a great player. There's Coler's over the top compliment. Like I said, I'm glad I don't have to choose.
Townsfolk...I read Annie as innocent. Mainly for that nonsense about viewing the thread on invisible - there's no way a person in contact with Ogre/JL/Jpappy would be coming out with that nonsense. This nightfall everything for our two vamps is being carefully advised upon.
I'd be far happier tying up Rocker v Zaffy than Rocker v Annie if anyone wanted to move their vote along those lines.
I am also getting a scummy buzz off of Kashta but that would be a turn last night if at all I think.
I agree with this reasoning, although I'm kinda glad its not my choice, as I would be loathe to chose. At this point I'd chose PD, or Coler again, since if they try to turn him, the seer will see last as I read it. I think its important to keep Coler on our team, he's obviously a great player. There's Coler's over the top compliment. Like I said, I'm glad I don't have to choose.
Very kind of you to say - if I am alive however tomorrow I don't think you will be able to trust a word I say.
IceH2O
08-26-2009, 7:31 PM
Vote tally with 30 mins left
Zaffy-1- Rocker
Rocker-3- Coler Rich Kash
Annie-4- Zaffy Lani Wycco Paper
Paper- 1- Annie
AnniesNotOK
08-26-2009, 7:32 PM
Annie:
I don't know. If all three are innocent then PD might be guilty. Statistically though- even if who was guilty and innocent was randomly assigned there would still be a 50% chance the lead vampire is in that trio... all three though are based on guilty behaviour so I would say there is greater than 50% chance one of them is guilty.
Noted- and I agree we can't trust her.
However... what I'd love to see is a Rocker/Annie tie... I think there is a good chance one is Lead Vampire so it would be interesting to see who jumps first. I think it would be a good tactic for the town to adopt for the night.
This a actually a good plan, unless both of us are innocent, but Rockers as good a choice as any to be beside me. If Rocker is LV we win. If someone jumps to save rocker, we win. If I'm innocent, we don't lose. I actually like this.
The split should be between Rocker and Zaffy - same principles apply.
Seriously I have Annie leaning far more innocent than either rocker or zaffy.
Or Kashta for that matter. Who I still think might have been trying to tell us something earlier - what would you say to that Kash ?
The split should be between Rocker and Zaffy - same principles apply.
Seriously I have Annie leaning far more innocent than either rocker or zaffy.
Or Kashta for that matter. Who I still think might have been trying to tell us something earlier - what would you say to that Kash ?
What do you have that shows Annie as innocent?
Sorry, more likely innocent.
AnniesNotOK
08-26-2009, 7:39 PM
Very kind of you to say - if I am alive however tomorrow I don't think you will be able to trust a word I say.
Well, sice you're definately innocent at this point, may I ask some advice???
Why Zaffy??? Not that I would't vote for Zaffy, I moved my vote from him obviously, and would move it back there if i had to chose someone else. Rocker would be my second choice, as a guess
AnniesNotOK
08-26-2009, 7:40 PM
What do you have that shows Annie as innocent?
Zaffy, what do think think of my vote for PD?
I'd like to see a tie- obviously with Annie on Paper she makes the tie more unattainable...
I still think Annie and Rocker are the two most likely- but I want to see this run close.
I withdraw my vote to lynch Annie and vote to lynch Zaffy.
OK Look here is my final effort at putting this game to bed for tonight - unless something else happens lol hah etc.
I think we have gotten the four original vamps and are left with the last two turns. Ogre was in LV until lynched and didn't swap to JM because JM had plenty of heat on him at that time - I was certainly convinced.
Of the people left, my stronger inclinations are that Kashta was turned last night.
I also pull strongly towards Annie being innocent.
Now what's anyone else got...quick answers pls before we all end up dead. And lynching the wrog person...btw for sure hunter, now is your time to shout out...
What do you have that shows Annie as innocent?
Skimmer.
I am now thinking Zaffy and Kashta are the two vamps.
AnniesNotOK
08-26-2009, 7:48 PM
i will move my vote to where it is actually useful.
Tomorrow, (if there is one), I'm voting PD.
I retract my vote for PD and vote to lynch Zaffy.
I put Kashta or Lan as last nights turn.
Annie, Rocker, or Zaff the night before... I agree about the first 4 being lynched already... I disagree with regards to Annie but I'm really not convinced about any of the 3.
I retract my vote to lynch Rocker and vote to lynch Zaffy
Kashta
08-26-2009, 7:49 PM
Wycco.. it looks fairly well established at this point that most of the town is going to follow your lead and vote for whomever you tell them to... for whatever reason you give them. You and Coler are the ones most likely above suspicion today.
Here, you drove votes onto PD... on a hunch.
I think it very possible that the vampires converted PD last night- I just don't see PD as the lead vampire at this point- I don't think they would have gone for her two nights ago.
Just a hunch.
Then here you posted something of a reversal, without actually contradicting yourself in the process.
If Zaffy, Rocker, or Annie are guilty I think PD is probably innocent- she voted for Zaffy. She helped put Rocker ahead when Zaffy was the lead player- and now she just helped tie up the Annie vs Rocker vote... I think PD is probably in the clear.
In this post, you say you'd rather see a tie between Rocker and Annie, which I believe you have at the moment (unless there's been a flurry of vote switches again since I last looked).
Annie:
I don't know. If all three are innocent then PD might be guilty. Statistically though- even if who was guilty and innocent was randomly assigned there would still be a 50% chance the lead vampire is in that trio... all three though are based on guilty behaviour so I would say there is greater than 50% chance one of them is guilty.
However... what I'd love to see is a Rocker/Annie tie... I think there is a good chance one is Lead Vampire so it would be interesting to see who jumps first. I think it would be a good tactic for the town to adopt for the night.
I would like to think we (collectively) could reach some consensus of opinion on who the vamps are because we outnumber them and that's the only way to kill them off. But unless the town decides to start doing their own thinking instead of blindly going with the flow... that's not going to happen.
rich311k
08-26-2009, 7:49 PM
i will go anywhere you want me to but if I move you lose the tie on rocker. I do like zaffy better as this day comes down to the end.
Vote tally with 30 mins left
Zaffy-4- Rocker, Annie, Wycco, Coler
Rocker- 2 Rich Kash
Annie-3 - Zaffy Lani Paper
who'm I missing there
Leave that vote right where it is and lets see Kashta move hers onto Annie would be my advice.
Kash...ol buddy ol friend...you was turned last night wern't you.
If Zaffy's innocent I stil say Kashta is a vampire and the other one is either lani or paperdragon
That vote tally is actually as of right now and not 30 minutes ago btw
Honestly Kash- earlier today I thought PD was a top pick for the turn last night.
Her voting record today and willingness to go on either of the top three suspects makes me think she is likely innocent... part of the vote swapping I've been doing is to get a read on people and see what bothers people.
I really don't know out of Zaff, Rocker and Annie.
If Zaff comes up guilty tonight I'm betting Lan is the other vampire... Rocker is hard to read- but his story sounded believable to me... although in truth I only changed my vote to him to see what would happen and also to try and tie things up.
Annie... Oh I really don't know. She's done some very suspicious things- but she has all game and I don't think she's been vampire all game...
I'd like to see a tie- obviously with Annie on Paper she makes the tie more unattainable...
I still think Annie and Rocker are the two most likely- but I want to see this run close.
I withdraw my vote to lynch Annie and vote to lynch Zaffy.
I don't think they're going to let you see a tie.
I retract my vote on Zaffy and vote to lynch Rocker
3 way tie seems fair.
Kashta
08-26-2009, 7:58 PM
Coler, I've already stated my case against Zaffy. I'm also prepared to vote Rocker because he's not even playing the game. My main concern now is he's just posted to confirm that fact. If he's the key vamp we're after now then even he doesn't care anyone who wins or loses.
I don't know who the best choice is either... which I've already posted about.
You want me to switch onto Annie? I've half a mind to do just that for the reasons she gave suspecting Paper.
I retract my vote on Zaffy and vote to lynch Rocker
3 way tie seems fair.
I think that's fair, I have an out, but I won't use it.
Can't speak for Annie or Rocker though.
If no one switches you're all innocent.
That should be enough to clear up the game tomorrow.
IceH2O
08-26-2009, 8:00 PM
IT IS NIGHT
If no one switches you're all innocent.
Not necessarily- they might favour a 33% chance of being offed than a larger percentage tomorrow.
IceH2O
08-26-2009, 8:01 PM
Final tally
Zaffy-3- Rocker Wycco Annie
Rocker-3- Rich Kash Coler
Annie-3- Zaffy Lani Paper
oh dear.
Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz*dreaming*ZaffyRockerAnnieare notLVsothatmeansitseitherlaniorpaperdragon.
IceH2O
08-26-2009, 8:02 PM
Bala needs to find the 3 silver coins he threw at Zsand.
IceH2O
08-26-2009, 8:04 PM
The coins are flipped
Heads you die tails you live
Zaffy- heads
Rocker- tails
Annie heads
Rocker is told the enter the crowd of onlookers.
IceH2O
08-26-2009, 8:06 PM
Bala flips 2 coins
Heads die tails live
Zaffy-tails
Annie- tails
Zaffy heads
Annie tails
Bala lifts Annie into the air and throws her towards Holy Water Lake
IceH2O
08-26-2009, 8:06 PM
Annie is dead
Annie is in
IceH2O
08-26-2009, 8:07 PM
sorry hit the submit button
the gang of vampires
Annie dies a Vampire
IceH2O
08-26-2009, 8:11 PM
The Lead vampire is all alone in their quest to reinforce their numbers
They head out to find a new victim keeping far a way from the Lake of Holy Water.
Victim in sight the LV dive bombs.
The LV bites but not the neck, its a bow. The LV gets tangles up in it and strangles the victim
Coler is dead and was the Hunter
IceH2O
08-26-2009, 8:12 PM
Game on
Night fall Thurs 9 PM EST
bah...finally ran out of balls...I'm glad I'm dead.
AnniesNotOK
08-26-2009, 8:13 PM
Bala flips 2 coins
Heads die tails live
Zaffy-tails
Annie- tails
Zaffy heads
Annie tails
Bala lifts Annie into the air and throws her towards Holy Water Lake
Not be be a poor sport, but, according to this post it says heads dies tails lives, and I rolled tails. I should have lived (undead of course) rather than suffer cruelly like this....did i read Ice's post wrong???
AAAaaaaRRRRrrrrrrrrOOOOooooooooo
I VOTE TO LYNCH KASHTA...
... THE LEAD VAMPIRE I MIGHT ADD!
She came back guilty last night- and as the only remaining vampire HAS to be the lead vampire!
Oh and I would like to thank Ogre for giving us Annie... if it wern't for him she wouldn't have been so high on my list of suspects!
;)
IceH2O
08-26-2009, 8:15 PM
Not be be a poor sport, but, according to this post it says heads dies tails lives, and I rolled tails. I should have lived (undead of course) rather than suffer cruelly like this....did i read Ice's post wrong???
AAAaaaaRRRRrrrrrrrrOOOOooooooooo
Yeah I messed up Zaffy had tails you had heads. My wife can vouch you died. she watched me flip
lanimret
08-26-2009, 8:17 PM
Yeah I messed up Zaffy had tails you had heads. My wife can vouch you died. she watched me flip
Man, I knew I should have stuck with it. No way I would have convinced you all though.
I have yet to vote and get a villager lynched, I guess I can be proud of that.
I vote to lynch Kashta
Yeah I messed up Zaffy had tails you had heads. My wife can vouch you died. she watched me flip
An unfortunate typo, but in light of Wyccos post if Kash is really the LV, then it's meaningless.
AnniesNotOK
08-26-2009, 8:18 PM
Yeah I messed up Zaffy had tails you had heads. My wife can vouch you died. she watched me flip
No worries, thank you for hosting, I look forward to playing again. It must be fu to watch all this chaos. I read old mafis games in reverse in preparation for last game, it was fun to read when you kow who's guilty...Where's the next signup??? Wycco had a good idea for one.
No worries, thank you for hosting, I look forward to playing again. It must be fu to watch all this chaos. I read old mafis games in reverse in preparation for last game, it was fun to read when you kow who's guilty...Where's the next signup??? Wycco had a good idea for one.
For the record, if anything I may have said honestly offended you, please know that I honestly mean nothing by it. I'm bad at words when it comes to peoples feelings. This goes for anyone who may have been rubbed wrong by anything I posted. Lani can testify to that fact.
ghost of coler says woooooooooot...and is glad I at least made it a tie despite having called this one aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaall wrong.
rich311k
08-26-2009, 8:23 PM
I vote to lynch kash.
Only logical choice confirmed by Wy.
LMAO... and credit for investigating Kash goes to Coler- I was torn between Kash and Lan- but he seemed sure it was Kash so I thought... "what the heck, I'm not sure but he is".
AnniesNotOK
08-26-2009, 8:35 PM
LMAO... and credit for investigating Kash goes to Coler- I was torn between Kash and Lan- but he seemed sure it was Kash so I thought... "what the heck, I'm not sure but he is".
I know the dead shouldn't speak, but Coler made a post from the dead, so I should get to make one too.
Isn't it possible Coler is the lead vampire??? He might be dead already, but he is a lawyer, and this is ACVille, so anything is still possible. I would reinvestigate ZS if I were you...something not quite right about that guy...glad it's not my choice...
I know the dead shouldn't speak, but Coler made a post from the dead, so I should get to make one too.
Isn't it possible Coler is the lead vampire??? He might be dead already, but he is a lawyer, and this is ACVille, so anything is still possible. I would reinvestigate ZS if I were you...something not quite right about that guy...glad it's not my choice...
:nilly::nilly::nilly:The body! it's still talking! Get more Holy Water!!!!:nilly::nilly::nilly:
rocker92
08-26-2009, 8:39 PM
i vote to lynch kash!
OgreMkV
08-26-2009, 8:57 PM
Good game everyone.
Annie, a small 'boo' post after death is OK. It is not OK to post questions or comments.
I thought we had it, but then we lost Jpap and John too quickly and we scrambled trying to get back in the swing of things.
I was the LV until the night I was killed.
Good game indeed, I had fun.
Kashta
08-26-2009, 9:02 PM
With this, I'm going to officially concede the game and I've just PM'd the game mod informing him so. You've got me fair and square; there's no sense waiting another 24 hours to run out the clock.
Extremely well done, everyone! This was a lot of fun and I thank you all!! My congratulations to all the innocents who found me out... and to all my (dead) wicked teammates, you guys are the best!
As for my dear, old friend... and good buddy:
I vote to stick a stake into Coler..
and to lynch him...
to fold, spindle, and mutilate him - then...
to cut out his gizzard with my fingernails...
and feed it to my cat.
103642
:FIREdevil:
AnniesNotOK
08-26-2009, 9:04 PM
Good game everyone.
Annie, a small 'boo' post after death is OK. It is not OK to post questions or comments.
I thought we had it, but then we lost Jpap and John too quickly and we scrambled trying to get back in the swing of things.
I was the LV until the night I was killed.
Well Ogre, I considered that when I posted my questions or comments about two dead players. But since we're chastizing, lets all jump in the pool. This comment however should not have been made until the current LV, who I will not reveal as it affects actual gameplay says he and or she concedes.
I guess since we're all coming clean now.
I bless you all my children. Although you'd have not believed me if I came true to you I will guide you as my flock into heaven.
I was the priest.
rich311k
08-26-2009, 9:04 PM
Great game everyone!
dirtydawg10
08-26-2009, 9:07 PM
Great game!! It was nice to see one finish again and what a game it was.
AnniesNotOK
08-26-2009, 9:07 PM
which she just did. well played all
Ahhh... I thought Lani was the priest based on a comment made earlier in the game about "the priest protected Wycco" - I thought that was a slip and that he was the priest...
... also thought they got Lani last night- so I figured it was game over soon for me... Turns out it was Kash though.
That was a very good game and you vampires played very well and crypticly.
ZSandmann
08-26-2009, 9:08 PM
WAY TO GO VILLAGERS!!!!
I knew Orge was the LV when he started that train on me, and JM I could stab you in the eye for that last second move!!! Once again I sat through the whole game screaming at my monitor. Today I was screaming IT SAYS IN RULE 1 TO BE INVISIBLE LYNCH ANNIE NOW!!!!!
Good game everyone.
Annie, a small 'boo' post after death is OK. It is not OK to post questions or comments.
I thought we had it, but then we lost Jpap and John too quickly and we scrambled trying to get back in the swing of things.
I was the LV until the night I was killed.
I had you dead to rights unfortunately the DEAD part made it hard to communicate that :wall:
Good game Vamps, I can't believe ya'll went for all the big names though and didn't try to turn me :(
If anyone has tips on how I could have played better, I'm willing to take them. haha.
ZSandmann
08-26-2009, 9:10 PM
I guess since we're all coming clean now.
I bless you all my children. Although you'd have not believed me if I came true to you I will guide you as my flock into heaven.
I was the priest.
FRAKKIN Power Roles, I swear the next time I am Evil you are all toast! Sorry Zaffy but I knew you were something other than a vanilla Villager.
paperdragon
08-26-2009, 9:10 PM
Heh, Kashta... Figures.
FRAKKIN Power Roles, I swear the next time I am Evil you are all toast! Sorry Zaffy but I knew you were something other than a vanilla Villager.
I was sweating a few times, for some reason I guess I'm just a vote magnet.
ZSandmann
08-26-2009, 9:14 PM
My big thing is I need to work on finding a way to show from quotes why I am feeling what I am feeling. I get vibes and I need to solidify them but I just don't have the time to dig posts like I used to.
IceH2O
08-26-2009, 9:14 PM
That game was pretty intense.
I thought Zaffy was toast night 1. Then all day today I'm screaming at the monitor to come out lol. Then when the votes fell off I was like well he played it well till they piled back on.
Cast
Seer-Wycco
Priest Zaffy
Hunter Coler
LV- Ogre
1st turn Jpap
Day 1 JL
Day 2 Jm
Day 3 RB killed
Day 4 Dawg killed
Day 5 Kash
Day 6 Annie
Day 7 Coler killed
Seer saw:
Day 1 JL
Day 2 RB
Day 3 Kash
Day 4 Rich
Day 5 Ogre
Day 6 Coler
Day 7 Kash
On Day 1 Wyyco almost found Coler but switched
Day 2 switched from Z to RB
Day4 switched from Jm to Rich
Day 7 switched from Annie to Zaffy to Kash
Ogre swapped LV to Kash night 6
Lani got the note.
ZSandmann
08-26-2009, 9:18 PM
With only one UD this was the best MAfia in a looooooong time! Kudos to all the players. One day I will live to the end of a game again :D
That game was pretty intense.
I thought Zaffy was toast night 1. Then all day today I'm screaming at the monitor to come out lol. Then when the votes fell off I was like well he played it well till they piled back on.
Cast
Seer-Wycco
Priest Zaffy
Hunter Coler
LV- Ogre
1st turn Jpap
Day 1 JL
Day 2 Jm
Day 3 RB killed
Day 4 Dawg killed
Day 5 Kash
Day 6 Annie
Day 7 Coler killed
Seer saw:
Day 1 JL
Day 2 RB
Day 3 Kash
Day 4 Rich
Day 5 Ogre
Day 6 Coler
Day 7 Kash
On Day 1 Wyyco almost found Coler but switched
Day 2 switched from Z to RB
Day4 switched from Jm to Rich
Day 7 switched from Annie to Zaffy to Kash
Ogre swapped LV to Kash night 6
Lani got the note.
I was waiting until I was sure the vamps would have already put in their turn request.
As I was typing up my post the votes started changing. I didn't think they'd believe me anyway.
I was sure that I was toast.
rocker92
08-26-2009, 9:18 PM
innocents win! i was just a plain old innocent, no power role not a vamp :(
any comments on my playing style?
EDIT: great game everyone!!!!
innocents win! i was just a plain old innocent, no power role not a vamp :(
any comments on my playing style?
Post more! :nutkick:
IceH2O
08-26-2009, 9:21 PM
I was waiting until I was sure the vamps would have already put in their turn request.
As I was typing up my post the votes started changing. I didn't think they'd believe me anyway.
I was sure that I was toast.
LOL the turn request went in after I said Game ON after each night fall
rocker92
08-26-2009, 9:21 PM
Post more! :nutkick:
i knew it was comming.
dirtydawg10
08-26-2009, 9:23 PM
With only one UD this was the best MAfia in a looooooong time! Kudos to all the players. One day I will live to the end of a game again :D
I agree!! That was a great one. Ogre you played the LV role very well. Nice move with the switch to Kash too.
paperdragon
08-26-2009, 9:23 PM
Definitely not a game for someone that can't read people at all and has the attention span of a three year old. lol
LOL the turn request went in after I said Game ON after each night fall
Doh!!
i knew it was comming.
No hard feelings :)
IceH2O
08-26-2009, 9:26 PM
Kash was right in the beginning. I hand picked the roles.
Ogre is so bad at being bad I wanted to give him a chance to redeem himself.
Zaffy and Wycco did so well last game I decided to reward them with 2 PRs.
Coler I made Hunter just so the innocents weren't stuck with Noobs for leaders.
ZSandmann
08-26-2009, 9:27 PM
My only advice is lynch the people that kill me sooner next game... Annie, Ogre, and JM on me :P
ZSandmann
08-26-2009, 9:32 PM
Why'd ya'll send Pappy up the river BTW?
johnlarson66
08-26-2009, 9:37 PM
Kash was right in the beginning. I hand picked the roles.
Ogre is so bad at being bad I wanted to give him a chance to redeem himself.
Zaffy and Wycco did so well last game I decided to reward them with 2 PRs.
Coler I made Hunter just so the innocents weren't stuck with Noobs for leaders.
:omg:
Good game, it was nice not to have a bunch of UD's. I was right about Kash being the LV...
Good job by Zaffy and Wycco. Everyone played well.
I think I did Ogre more harm than good, but it was a fun team. (wycco you are supposed to invest ZS and Coler before me). Good communication.
johnlarson66
08-26-2009, 9:39 PM
Why'd ya'll send Pappy up the river BTW?
It sure seemed like a good idea at the time. I volunteered to go and then he volunteered, being a game that would gain members it seemed to be a good idea at the time. That was until wycco came out.
:omg:
Good game, it was nice not to have a bunch of UD's. I was right about Kash being the LV...
Good job by Zaffy and Wycco. Everyone played well.
I think I did Ogre more harm than good, but it was a fun team. (wycco you are supposed to invest ZS and Coler before me). Good communication.
Wycco is a champ, all I did was collect votes!
OgreMkV
08-26-2009, 9:45 PM
It was a great game.... Admit it, I had you guys pretty much snowed for most of the game.
I was within inches of picking Wycco for my first turn too. Grrr...
Coler and Wycco, you guys were freaking awesome. You have the logic part of it perfectly. I cried most of the game after Wycco revealed himself. (BTW: I'd play in your game Wycco!)
Jpap was heading off to college and pretty much said, take me out. Yes, all three other vamps were on him at the same time... thanks for noticing Coler. I was cool with that until Wycco came out and killed off John. I knew it would be a battle then. Unfortunately, I didn't get any replacements until too late... after Wycco came out, we were scrambling the whole time.
I think both sides played really well this time and I really enjoyed it.
Next.
rich311k
08-26-2009, 9:48 PM
Wy sure did make it work.
OgreMkV
08-26-2009, 9:48 PM
Oh on the coming out thing... One vamp left, no turn, investigated by detective... it's like the end of a spades game and you have A, K, Q of spades. Just lay them down.
ZSandmann
08-26-2009, 9:50 PM
Yes next game please!
I'm going to stab JM in the eye then lynch Ogre just to be sure on Day 1.
OgreMkV
08-26-2009, 9:54 PM
Yes next game please!
I'm going to stab JM in the eye then lynch Ogre just to be sure on Day 1.
Go ahead... make my day.
lanimret
08-26-2009, 10:18 PM
For my first game, how'd I do?
I never really suspected Zaffy, it wasn't the point. I was new to the game and their really was no reason to pick anyone the first 2 days. I chose Zaffy and gave a lame excuse so as to distance the two of us, and confuse the crap out of everyone enough to try and rock some boats and get some read's on people.
I just chose Zaffy cause I know him and knew he wouldn't retaliate on me.
Vampires played an awesome game, and I have to Zaffy pulled some serious shenanigans. How many times can you be almost lynched and pull through? haha.
Zaffy
08-26-2009, 10:52 PM
For my first game, how'd I do?
I never really suspected Zaffy, it wasn't the point. I was new to the game and their really was no reason to pick anyone the first 2 days. I chose Zaffy and gave a lame excuse so as to distance the two of us, and confuse the crap out of everyone enough to try and rock some boats and get some read's on people.
I just chose Zaffy cause I know him and knew he wouldn't retaliate on me.
Vampires played an awesome game, and I have to Zaffy pulled some serious shenanigans. How many times can you be almost lynched and pull through? haha.
Apparently, I'm a slippery vote magnet.
jpappy789
08-26-2009, 11:32 PM
It sure seemed like a good idea at the time. I volunteered to go and then he volunteered, being a game that would gain members it seemed to be a good idea at the time. That was until wycco came out.
It was a great game.... Admit it, I had you guys pretty much snowed for most of the game.
I was within inches of picking Wycco for my first turn too. Grrr...
Coler and Wycco, you guys were freaking awesome. You have the logic part of it perfectly. I cried most of the game after Wycco revealed himself. (BTW: I'd play in your game Wycco!)
Jpap was heading off to college and pretty much said, take me out. Yes, all three other vamps were on him at the same time... thanks for noticing Coler. I was cool with that until Wycco came out and killed off John. I knew it would be a battle then. Unfortunately, I didn't get any replacements until too late... after Wycco came out, we were scrambling the whole time.
I think both sides played really well this time and I really enjoyed it.
Next.
^^^Yep.
I was pretty close to being a goner after lynchin' Noods so I figured if I let the team go after me since I also would not be around to post it would take some heat off of Jm and make JL and Ogre look even better.
Unfortunately Wycco ruined it for us, lol, but he did a great job IMO. I'm glad we are getting new players that like to participate though! I might be in for the next one but classes are starting soon so I'll be a much lower poster than normal, and think I volunteered to mod the one after that...we'll see how that turns out...
Rbishop
08-27-2009, 4:10 AM
Will post some links to old games tonight for you folks to give input...
Great game even though out early...but thats fairly normal for me..lmao.
Kashta
08-27-2009, 4:59 AM
Dangerdoll, Kash, and Zaffy were looking likely to have a threesome. Zaffy backed out and pushed Dangerdoll into the fore.
Say, what!?!??
:p:
noodles62
08-27-2009, 5:18 AM
Wow! What a good game. I enjoyed watching along, even tho I got lynched - you cowards! LOL
Wycco/Coler, excellent game!
I guess since we're all coming clean now.
I bless you all my children. Although you'd have not believed me if I came true to you I will guide you as my flock into heaven.
I was the priest.
Bloody hellfire !!
Vamps verrrrrrrrrrrrrry close to a win with us all set up to vote for Zaffy on D1...and even then leaving him in a three way split last night...or even say if JM had picked Zaffy to lynch instead of JM when he was split with ZS & Zaffy.
I was certainly fooled by Annie on the last day.
I really enjoyed that game and actually consider myself to have been properly fooled pretty much throughout except for moments of clarity regarding Jpappy's exit - which was only possible due to Wycco coming out which I think was perfectly timed when it was clear that at least one vamp was on pappy in the tie with Rich. We got a lot of good info from that alone. Then nailing Ogre & in particular Kashta on the rebound was excellent.
Well played all - and many thanks to Ice. I've never enjoyed a game more.
Thanks everyone... that was a close fought game... I think we did well- but we also had a lot of luck on our hands. If Zaffy hadn't of switched his vote we would have been priestless- which would have been a huge blow. Luck #1.
(In hindsight Zaffy that was an excellent move)
The fact that Zaffy avoided getting axed the next day because Noodles emerged as a major target instead (sorry about that Noodles) helped us... obviously the vampires couldn't have known Zaffy was the priest. So Noodles dying and Zaffy living Luck #2
I had my "next investigation" on Zaffy when it looked like a Annie/Rocker tie- it's only because Zaffy looked a possible lynch I moved it again to Kashta. If it wasn't for that late switch- we wouldn't know Kashta as the lead vampire... Luck #3 (I changed who I was investigating about 3 times that last day... it started off on Annie)
I guess that's how all games go though- you need a bit of luck. We certainly couldn't have won without it.
I thought Lanimert did well- in fact too well towards the end- really came out of your shell- I thought for sure you had been turned- as I said before- I also thought you were the priest so I thought that meant I was getting bit last night.
I never guessed Pappy was guilty I thought it a huge mistake people voting for him at the time and couldn't see the case against him- but that's mainly because most of what he wrote resembled what I had been thinking at the time.
noodles62
08-27-2009, 6:59 AM
I am always a target for the lynch. I just have such a lovely neck, y'all cannot resist putting a noose around it! LOL
I was surpirsed that I survived as long as I did - I am always happy to make it past the first night.
ZSandmann
08-27-2009, 7:22 AM
I think the Vamps just hate corgis.
noodles62
08-27-2009, 7:34 AM
:22_yikes: No! They must Obey the Corgis!
jpappy789
08-27-2009, 7:42 AM
I like corgis...
...
Dangerdoll, Kash, and Zaffy were looking likely to have a threesome. Zaffy backed out and pushed Dangerdoll into the fore.
...
:naughty:
OgreMkV
08-27-2009, 10:25 AM
I love corgis.... a little butter, onion and beel pepper. A 350 degree oven for about 40 minutes... love 'em.
kidding
Wycco
08-27-2009, 11:03 AM
Ogre... strange you should say that:
(no-one shoot the messenger)
http://blogs.chron.com/cookstour/archives/2007/05/britwit_vows_to.html
noodles62
08-27-2009, 11:24 AM
I love corgis.... a little butter, onion and beel pepper. A 350 degree oven for about 40 minutes... love 'em.
kidding
*gasp* Shame on you! :nono:
johnlarson66
08-27-2009, 10:39 PM
I love corgis.... a little butter, onion and beel pepper. A 350 degree oven for about 40 minutes... love 'em.
kidding
*gasp* Shame on you! :nono:
I agree, Shame on you Ogre, you forgot garlic and the side of pasta.
Zaffy
08-27-2009, 10:52 PM
Maybe serve it with a nice Chianti.
johnlarson66
08-27-2009, 11:14 PM
Maybe serve it with a nice Chianti.
I was wondering what wine would go with corgis. I know it is white for cats and red for dogs, but corgis are so small.
Thanks for clearing it up.
ZSandmann
08-28-2009, 8:00 AM
All this talk has made my avatar faint.
Kashta
08-28-2009, 10:12 AM
You might revive him, Sandy, before someone shows up with a roasting pan.
:lipssealedsmilie: