Angels show signs of disease after new Koi added

[sushiray]

Now need help bigtime. One Koi shows caudal/swimmer fins stunted. Now have 1 angel show signs of same stunt/fin rot on it's swimmer right fin, beginning stage. But biggest issue is one angel now has some kind of Ich-like spots but not sure if Ich cuz doesn't look like salt grains/more cotton-like nobules. Then my largest veil has beginnings of some very faint very small white splotches in it's tailfin. It's coincidence that I put the Koi in w/ it's dorsal back part showing the white shredding & stunted fins, now my other angels show signs of disease. I QT but no meds. So I ask, can someone help me at least diagnose & then treatment. Just purchased prazipro-pimafix/melafix-rid ich. I'm leaning towards raising temps/start add table salt & either use rid ich or combo of pima/melafixes. Plz let me know if u can help me out/this has been very distressing. thx

[theredchaser]

How do you qt with no meds?

Fin rot is caused by a bacterial infection eating away the flesh. Are the cotton parts all over the place or in specific places like the mouth, openings, etc? If its not ich it sounds like a fungal infection. If you can post pics it will be easier to diagnose.

I would first raise the temp, then treat for the possible fungal infection first, since fungus are a lot more tolerant to their conditions than bacteria. Treat for 48 hours, 75% wc, then treat for the bacterial infection. Treat for 48 hours, 75% wc, then treat again for the fungus. If your fish become lethargic, you can wait a day in between for them to recover, but its important to at least get rid of one symptom first.

[tropics007]

here is a couple links for you:

http://freshwatercichlids.info/freshwater-fish-disease-fin-rot

http://www.fishlore.com/aquariummagazine/feb08/fish-finrot.htm

clean up any uneaten food, remove any aggressive fish, keep up with water changes, and CHECK water paramiters. These are all reasons why fin rot can occur. Also drastic water temp. changes can cause this as well. #1 cause of fin rot is by having poor water conditions. Also, make sure you QT the possible "sick" fish immed. Treat them in a sep. tank.

Hope this helps.

[mel_20_20]

True fungus has long thread like whispy fuzz, while columnaris has shorter, denser cottony lesions on the body and/or around the mouth. I believe you have Columnaris and need to quarantine; treat with an antibiotic: Kanacyn, or if not then Maracyn and Maracyn II which covers gram neg and gram positive bacterial infections.

Bacterial infections thrive in warmer water so keep the temp on the cool side of comfortable, perhaps around 74 degrees.

Pristine water is vital. Do a big water change and dose the tank. Twenty-four hours later do another big water change and dose again. Go beyond the five day treatment protocol that is on the Maracyn package. I go for a full ten days.

Absolutely no ammonia or nitrites in the water. Use Prime conditioner to remove the chlorine and chloramines, but mostly because this product detoxifies ammonia and nitrites for twenty-four hours, helping in case any trace of those two toxic
by-products show up in the water.

Feed lightly. If you can get them to eat food with antibiotic in it then this would really be ideal, however, my fish wouldn't eat it.

I'm going to post some pics of fungus infection, and also columnaris so you can see the difference in the two.

Columnaris is very frequently incorrectly confused with true funal infection.

Be right back with pics.

EDIT: I didn't notice if you mentioned this, but use a liquid test kit to test your parameters every day, if not several times a day to make sure there are no traces of detectable ammonia or nitrites in the water of the QT. (usually no nitrites in a newly setup QT or hospital tank, but ammonia levels can climb)

[mel_20_20]

Here is a picture of a true fungus infection.

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Here are pictures of Columnaris. The cottony patches can be small round poofy spots or widespread areas that look cottony or filmy.

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[mel_20_20]

Please post pics as soon as possible. This will help us correctly diagnose the problem.

[sushiray]

I hope to post pics of Koi shortly since I trf to angel tank from my discus tank. But as an update, I treated with Rid-Ich & salt & raised temp to 80. The spots (fuzzy I thought) on the top part of body by base of dorsal fin have mostly disappeared (I didn't think of taking a pic b-4 the meds, should have) but still see like a very small "splotch", small & faint.

The Koi's dorsal fin (back bottom of fin) has much improved from a very white shredded look to just the tips/edges now barely off white. the longer tailed veil still has small faint white "splotch", will do w/c on tues. letting med sit in tank for 3days. have vac-ed any debris. have very little gravel (1/5 of tank thin layer) mostly bare bottom.

running new AC70, kept ceramic bio-media from prior AC110, temp 80, ph6.6 Am/Ni=0 Na=40 (maybe this jumped from 5 because of new filter?)

[sushiray]

thks for your feedback.


True fungus has long thread like whispy fuzz, while columnaris has shorter, denser cottony lesions on the body and/or around the mouth. I believe you have Columnaris and need to quarantine; treat with an antibiotic: Kanacyn, or if not then Maracyn and Maracyn II which covers gram neg and gram positive bacterial infections.

o didn't seem to fit these 2 fungus types. I looked at your pics didn't see similarities. I did treat with Rid-Ick, the spots faded pretty quickly till now it's a faint "splotch" on the body. thing is no signs of growth around mouth, gills, eyes, head or fins, only on upper body near base of dorsal.

Bacterial infections thrive in warmer water so keep the temp on the cool side of comfortable, perhaps around 74 degrees.

o whoops, I raised to 80 with Rid Ich & salt treatment, I didn't remember that bacteria thrives in higher temps, I hope it isn't the case in my tank

Pristine water is vital. Do a big water change and dose the tank. Twenty-four hours later do another big water change and dose again. Go beyond the five day treatment protocol that is on the Maracyn package. I go for a full ten days.

o I did 60% w/c & dosed with Rid Ich

Absolutely no ammonia or nitrites in the water. Use Prime conditioner to remove the chlorine and chloramines, but mostly because this product detoxifies ammonia and nitrites for twenty-four hours, helping in case any trace of those two toxic by-products show up in the water.

o I used Prime (for 60gal dose) on w/c then Rid Ich. prior to w/c pH 6.6 AM/NI=0 NA=40

Feed lightly. If you can get them to eat food with antibiotic in it then this would really be ideal, however, my fish wouldn't eat it.

o I try to feed lightly but all my angels are ferocious eaters

I'm going to post some pics of fungus infection, and also columnaris so you can see the difference in the two.

o thks

Columnaris is very frequently incorrectly confused with true funal infection.

Be right back with pics.

EDIT: I didn't notice if you mentioned this, but use a liquid test kit to test your parameters every day, if not several times a day to make sure there are no traces of detectable ammonia or nitrites in the water of the QT. (usually no nitrites in a newly setup QT or hospital tank, but ammonia levels can climb)

o API master test