View Full Version : Cleaning a really dirty sandbed
AquaFina
08-30-2009, 6:33 PM
in reply to my last thread Hairline algae problem
I have all the rock out, still waiting to deal with that mess, scrub it all but ive been using the vacumum on the sand and it is getting a lot of nasty stuff out but there is still a layer I am unhappy with, how do I get rid of most of it, I not worried about losing too much I have a lot of curred live rock here still and 40lbs of livesand I picked up at the lfs, I just want the sandbed I have now to be clean.
sorry for the bold, but I don't know how to turn it off, the [b] is not working.
AquaFina
08-30-2009, 6:47 PM
I think I am just going to take the sand out and rinse it but won't that now leave the remaining water to be all dirty..
by doing this will I be going through the cycle again, even if I am use the liverock and the new batch of live sand.
out of 60gallons of water there is probably 20-25 gal in the tank right now.
If you rinse the sand in tank water it really shouldn't affect the bacterial colonization too badly. As I mentioned on my previous reply if you wanted to replace the sand the rock should take up the bio filtration readily.
The other thing to contemplate is whether or not the old sand is coated with phosphatic bio-film.
AquaFina
08-31-2009, 1:57 PM
at one point from what I was told they did have a lot of red slime, is this what phosphatic bio-film but anyways I have taken all the sand out, just easier and I wanted to start fresh, the sandbed just seemed too dirty.
ToeJam
08-31-2009, 3:12 PM
at one point from what I was told they did have a lot of red slime, is this what phosphatic bio-film but anyways I have taken all the sand out, just easier and I wanted to start fresh, the sandbed just seemed too dirty.
You may need to evaluate how it got that way to...or you will only repeat this again. Sand usually stays good for up to 2 years from what I read at reef sanctuary ....and reef frontiers site. When it clumps and becomes hard it is time to replace.
This can be salvageable several ways to. First how did you get to this point?
Do you have sand critters to keep the sand turned and detritus eaten...?
Do you have a lot of flow to keep detritus suspended to be skimmed out?
What are your test results (should be lower than what they really are if you have Cyano and algae outbreak)...still tests will help us get you in the right direction.
Phosphates come from food and bad water sources...and it is a catalyst to red slime outbreaks.
You have to understand cyano feeds off nutrients and lighting...its a hybrid algae/bacteria. So the conditions of your tank is allowing it to grow too fast and be visible now.
Sand sifting diamond goby are good sand cleaners with nessy snails....adding a phosban reactor with phosban would be a good idea to keep phosphates gone for months....media usually lasts several months for me on a 75 gallon reef.
You keep phosphates at 0 and Nitrates below 10 (15 -20 others may advise)... red slime will starve to death.
You do need to identify how it got this way....Overfeeding, phosphate levels high, nitrates high, bad water source for top off and mixing, very poor maintenance schedule.... I don't know...some how the conditions are perfect for cyano to go crazy...
So something you are doing is only going to repeat itself even after you replace all the sand.
Do you have a skimmer? Do you have lots of flow? How often do you feed, and what? What is your water source? What are your test results?
really a sand cleaning crew + sifter fish goes a long way...ive seen dirty looking fine sugar sand go white in a few days of mr fish working his magic.
He in another post said that he had been away for 20 months and left his tank in the care of someone else who did little to no maintanence.:eek3:
AquaFina
08-31-2009, 11:03 PM
He in another post said that he had been away for 20 months and left his tank in the care of someone else who did little to no maintanence.:eek3:
Correct, I did away with the sand and bought 50lbs of fiji pink LS, I like it a lot better. I am not to worried about the cycle period, with the LS I have 70lbs of liverock should do the trick.
However I after I put all the rock in, I am going to remove a lot of it, I am not going to go for the full reef this time, I would like to do FOWLR, how much rock should I leave in, 20lbs? I want a lot of open space with a small coral area. that is another question in a day or two about that cause I have the lighting to still do something. 1 HQI 150w 4 55w PC lighting
If you got the FOWLR you probably want to keep the rock looking good. I would keep the 55w bulbs and get new bulbs that are aesthetically pleasing and capable of keeping the coraline and maybe a couple of low maintanence softies alive.
Amphiprion
09-01-2009, 2:35 PM
You may need to evaluate how it got that way to...or you will only repeat this again. Sand usually stays good for up to 2 years from what I read at reef sanctuary ....and reef frontiers site. When it clumps and becomes hard it is time to replace.
That's a first for me. I think that the timeline given on RS and RF is either the result of improper care or a misunderstanding. I had the sandbed in my 75 intact for over 10 years. It just required occasional boosts of infauna, but otherwise stayed in great shape.
ToeJam
09-01-2009, 4:39 PM
That's a first for me. I think that the timeline given on RS and RF is either the result of improper care or a misunderstanding. I had the sandbed in my 75 intact for over 10 years. It just required occasional boosts of infauna, but otherwise stayed in great shape.
Yah I can go log in there after work and try to dig up there sand bed article section on what I read...
I tend to believe most of articles written by those with PH'ds to some degree...doesn't mean it's always on mark though...
Ill PM you with it when I dig it up.
UPDATE: I just read this:http://www.reefs.org/library/aquarium_net/0497/0497_3.html
Again, "clumping" does not present any threat to aquatic life (including denitrifying bacteria) nor affect the performance of aragonite substrate outside of some reduction in porewater space. The calcite crystals ("clumping") themselves are metastable at whatever pH they were formed. This makes it likely you may even expect some buffering capability at elevated pH levels.
So now I have conflicting article.... ignore the sand clumping post I made.
I am going to keep digging later to find that article...cause now I have a conflict of information.
Clumping, IME, usually happens in deep sandbeds and plenums. It's more likley to happen if you dose with Kalkwasser or 2 part Ca,alk additives.
I like my shallow sandbeds with fine oolitic sand, it's far less prone to clumping than coarser aragonite when it's used in a DSB