40 Breeder, Coldwater Stocking

[PaulJ69]

So I have a 40 Breeder sitting next to me in the basement. Temperature right now is 72°F in the summer time, hottest gets to about 75 maybe, coldest would probably be around 65 then I will most likely have a heater for anything lover than that. But I'm trying not to use a heater.

Option 1: Coldwater River. I am thinking of having 2 canisters shooting from one end to the other. I would probably have white cloud minnows, hillstream loaches and something else. Or something totally different. What are other cold water fish that like a nice current?

Option 2: Just a non river tank. HUGE school of bloodfin tetras, or something similar. I really feel like having a big school of something. I also heard/read that Buenoes aires tetras can tolerate mid sixties?

Option 3: 4 Axolotls

Idk what else to think of. Give me some ideas on fish and tank setups.
No Goldfish, and No Danios. :D

Thanks

[jpappy789]

I've always wanted to try something like #1.

[Lupin]

I moved your thread here since it covers coldwater and this is the proper forum for that.

You could try garras with the #1 option. I've done a river tank for hillstream loaches before. Garras and stiphodons will mix just fine there if you can find those.

[Inka4040]

Stiphodons do not fare too well in cold water, so that would be a definite no no. What about darters?

[SubRosa]

Smaller species of Sunfish, like genus Enneacanthus (Diamonds and Blackbands both of which are NJ natives) or smaller Lepomis sps. (Dollar Sunfish or Orange Spotted) will make beautiful centerpiece fish, like semi-aggressive cichlids. Try a school of Dace or Shiners for a bit of activity. A few examples are Redbelly Dace(Phoxinus sps.) Rosysided Dace (Clinostomos funduloides) Rainbow Shiners(Notropis chrosomos) or Flagfin Shiners (Notropis signipinnis) All of these can be found from time to time on AB, or they're almost always available from Sachs Aquaculture, www.aquaculturestore.com (http://www.aquaculturestore.com)

[PaulJ69]

wow thanks for the website!
So I'm Pretty sure I'm going for the Cold Water River tank deal.
What are some plants that would survive fast moving cold water?
Thanks again!

[SubRosa]

Find a fast moving stream near your house and get the plants. Fontinalis antipyretica, Willowmoss comes immediately to mind.

[jpappy789]

Elodea, certain myriophyllum maybe?

[Inka4040]

American hornwort, proserpinaca prosperina, many of the bacopas, that's all I can think of off the top of my head.

[gotglock]

I dont think canisters would have enough current. A couple of power heads do help though :)

[Notophthalmus]

I've been wanting to try a hillstream loach/darter/dace setup myself. They should all do well together. As far as plants go, rushing waters tend not to have much submerged flora, but moderate current areas of my local streams often have Ludwigia palustris, Podostemum ceratophyllum, and various mosses.

BTDarters (btdarters.com) is another good supplier of coolwater fishes. Pretty much everything he carries would work well in your tank, except for brook sticklebacks. Just be sure to provide a varied current regime, with higher and lower flow areas, so the fish can choose their preferred spots.

[PaulJ69]

So far my canisters are arriving friday and am going to see how much they actually put out. I might get a Zoomed powersweep to give them more of a wave motion instead of a constant current. Ill also try to get a Big piece of drift wood and a big rock so they can hide behind. For the substrate, I was trying to get soilmaster select, but can't seem to find it anywhere, so I might just get some smallish polished river stones or something. A couple of small pieces of drift wood to attach some moss onto.
For the fish I was thinking of hillstream loaches, Mountain Redbelly Dace, Okefenokee pygmy sunfish, but since I'm not going to have that many plants, mostly moss, I don't know if he would be good in there. But I'll probably get a rainbow darter or two or three.
Now I need to go find a rock and some wood...

[jpappy789]

I'm not positive but the canisters may end up being enough...my Rena XP1 had to be turned almost all the way down in order for my fish to be able to swim by LOL and I've heard that with fish like hillstreams and darters its more about DO2 than the actual flow rate.

I'll definitely be following your progress.

[Notophthalmus]

I suspect Soilmaster would blow around in the current; you might want to put some gravel on top of it to keep it in place. If you're going that route, you could also use some good old topsoil and fallen leaves as your planting medium.

Vals do fine in current too. In fact they look rather nice, and really emphasize the current.

The tank is inappropriate for pygmy sunnies, as they are strictly slackwater species and fare poorly in current. They would disappear in such a big tank anyways.

The darters and dace will love it. Any Clinostomus, Phoxinus, or Rhinicthys dace will make a good addition. There are many other stream-loving cyprinids that are quite pretty as well, such as many Campostoma, Cyprinella, Hybopsis, Luxilus, Lythrurus, Notropis, and Phenacobius species. Avoid Nocomis, Notemigonus, and Semotilus species.

Phoxinus (including mountain redbellies) and Campostoma are algae/aufwuchs grazers, so they will do well on the same diet as your hillstreams but will also take flake. You may need to keep a close eye on the hillstreams to make sure they are competing well enough with the minnows.

[PaulJ69]

New plan!
AMERICAN BIOTOPE!
So I'm throwing out the hillstream loaches.

[jpappy789]

Oh No! LOL

Still going to follow this as I want a darter/dace setup sometime :drool:

[PaulJ69]

Jungle Val Vallisneria americana native to America!

LOL pappy, it will be a biotope for a while, then i might add some hillstreams :D

[Notophthalmus]

Sweet! Lots of native plants are available in the trade, actually; I had a list typed up at some point, I'll see if I can find it. Are you still doing a stream setup?

[PaulJ69]

Yes I am!
Here's a short list I just started

Jungle Val -Vallisneria Americana
Blood stargrass -Didiplis diandra
Creeping rush - Juncus repens
Pearlweed - Hemianthus micranthemoides
Narrow leaf chain sword - Echinodorus tenellus
Banana plant - Nymphoides aquatic
Baby tears - Micranthemum umbrosum


And a aquatic carnivorous plant.
Lesser Bladderwort - Utricularia minor

[Notophthalmus]

Quoting my own post from another forum:


Several are available from aquarium and pond suppliers, including hornwort (Ceratophyllum submersum, a different species of the same genus as our native C. demersum, but so similar as makes no difference), cabomba (Cabomba caroliniana), red ludwigia (Ludwigia repens or L. palustris), cardinal flower (Lobelia cardinalis), banana plant (Nymphoides aquatica), dwarf hairgrass (Eleocharis parvulus or E. acicularis), pygmy chain sword (Echinodorus tenellus), guppy grass (Najas guadalupensis), various Sagittaria species, American val (Vallisneria americana), duckweeds (Lemna, Spirodela, and Wolffia sp.), mosquito fern/fairy moss (Azolla caroliniana), and probably several others I'm forgetting.


I had a longer list but can't find it. Propagating your own wild-collected plants is fun too, and gives you greater variety.

By the way, be sure to check out http://forum.nanfa.org; it is the best place on the web for info on keeping North American fish in captivity.

[DooSPX]

Quoting my own post from another forum:



I had a longer list but can't find it. Propagating your own wild-collected plants is fun too, and gives you greater variety.

By the way, be sure to check out http://forum.nanfa.org; it is the best place on the web for info on keeping North American fish in captivity.


I agree. nanfa is a great site

[PaulJ69]

Thanks for the site, now I just wasted about 4 hours and have a hankering to get my waders and go fishing and collecting....

[PaulJ69]

Alrighty Heres what I have so far.
I have a Canister, Magnum Hot, and 4 power heads. All totaling at 1,475 GPH. I only have the canister, Hot, and 1 powerhead on in the picture.
I'm waiting on some driftwood to come in the mail from MG., And I will be looking for 2 Big rocks to add too.

Still murky, I just added the water today.
Temp is 72.1 and will be cycling it shortly!
http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a131/PaulJ69/Fish/IMG_2909.jpg

Comments questions and concerns are welcome!

[cooldude123]

Have you thought of trying crayfish? They would eat any fish they could catch though
=(. Just an idea.

[jpappy789]

Have you decided on a fish/plant stocking list yet!?

[PaulJ69]

For fish I was thinking a bunch of Mountain redbelly Dace, and a couple rainbow darters.
Plants, Im going for some American val. and some moss, nothing else can really last long in a heavy flow.

Any other fish/plant suggestions?

I want a logperch
http://fl.biology.usgs.gov/Southeastern_Aquatic_Fauna/Freshwater_Fishes/Logperch/Logperch.mpg

[jpappy789]

Sounds like a nice tank!!!

[jpappy789]

bumpity...any new updates?!

[PaulJ69]

The tank finally cleared up after more than a week. And Im still waiting for some drift wood to sink. Still have to pick up 2 big rocks, and make a canopy.
Here's what it looks like as of 1 minute ago.
http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a131/PaulJ69/Fish/IMG_2938.jpg

[jpappy789]

awesome!

[Notophthalmus]

Looking good!

Jonah's Aquarium (http://www.jonahsaquarium.com/JonahSite/fishlist.htm) also carries some native stream fish. Their stocklist changes all the time, so if there's a particular species you want, just let them know and they might be able to get it for you. Looks like they have some Lythrurus shiners and some madtoms right now, any of which would work well in your tank.

I'm not sure if it came up before, but there are several native stream mosses, many closely related to willow moss. You'll probably have to collect these yourself.

[PaulJ69]

Thanks noto, I've been past that site a couple times. Most of the site with native fish, you could just ask if they could get something and they might get it.
I still need to get my last 2 remaining logs to submerge and still need to get my 2 big rocks. Then I'll start planting!

[PaulJ69]

Quick update:

I think I have a problem...
Problem is the temp of the tank is not going below 72. Right now its 73.9. It's in my basement (which is cold) and I don't have a heater running on it. Its actually warmer than if I didn't have a heater on my 29g 2 stories up which is a lot hotter. I think my canister might be running hot.
I still need to get my 2 big rocks and build a canopy...
other than that its a tank filled with moving water lol.

[stratusfearrr]

tank looks great! keep us updated

[SubRosa]

Paul I don't know what part of Jersey you're in but I know a place just outside of Ambler PA (Eastern Montgomery County) where there is all the black slate or shale you could want for the taking. There are some of cube shaped pieces and literally tons of flat ones from gravel sized to bring a backhoe sized.

[jpappy789]

Quick update:

I think I have a problem...
Problem is the temp of the tank is not going below 72. Right now its 73.9. It's in my basement (which is cold) and I don't have a heater running on it. Its actually warmer than if I didn't have a heater on my 29g 2 stories up which is a lot hotter. I think my canister might be running hot.
I still need to get my 2 big rocks and build a canopy...
other than that its a tank filled with moving water lol.

Can you go open top and have a fan blow over the top of the water?

[gar man]

id go with the Axolotls those things are so awsome :D

[Notophthalmus]

Quick update:

I think I have a problem...
Problem is the temp of the tank is not going below 72. Right now its 73.9. It's in my basement (which is cold) and I don't have a heater running on it. Its actually warmer than if I didn't have a heater on my 29g 2 stories up which is a lot hotter. I think my canister might be running hot.
I still need to get my 2 big rocks and build a canopy...
other than that its a tank filled with moving water lol.

Does your basement get warmer in the summer or is the temp pretty constant? 74 F is not a problem for most temperate species, especially if there's plenty of current and surface agitation. Several people at the NANFA forum keep darters at similar temps.

[7itanium]

if I were to do a coldwater tank it would be a local biotype

I would get some wild things from around my area and make a coldwater tank

of course with this option, a great amount of research should be done to make sure you are meeting the needs of a wild animal

[PaulJ69]

Tank temp 74.4

Well my basement does probably get warmer in the summer time, I just have never checked. I also should check the outside temp too... That's on my list of things to do tomorrow.
I know of a place where I saw 2 decent sized rocks, I just haven't gone and got them yet. Still on my list of things to do...
I thought about axolotls but they need colder water, and more upkeep.

[7itanium]

keep in mind that it is incredibly easy to make a DIY chiller out of a mini-fridge from wal-mart. for less than $80 you can have a nicely functioning one and then you could keep any kind of coldwater species you would like (and have room for)