15 Gal Newbie

[djdestructo]

Hi there, I am sort of new to this hobby. A bit of background first I guess..
Started off with a small 3 gal tank and 1 goldfish, after about a year I converted my 15 gal lizard tank into an aquarium, and added my goldfish into the tank, shortly after he died. I did cycle the tank so I am not sure if it was just his time to go or just the stress of moving him into the other tank.

I then added about 4 goldfish into the tank at once (i know now that it was a bad move) and one by one they started to die, first it was from ich, then bacterial hemorrhagic septicemia, then fin rot.

I did everything I could to treat them with melafix or triple sulfa. I have been very good with water changes, and vacuuming the gravel up every week, and most recently testing the water to make sure the levels are fine.

Here are my levels so far are...

pH: 7.6
temperature: 24 C
size of tank: 15 gal
stocking of tank: 1 gold fish and a pleco
ammonia: 0
nitrite: 0
nitrate: 0

I recently just added a pleco (after asking the guy at the fish store if they are fine with goldfish) shortly after I noticed that my only goldfish left was asking wierd, and loosing his color so I converted my old 3 gal tank into a quarantine tank.

I had read that using a quarantine tank for a sick fish would be better then treating the main tank so I placed him into the 3 gal tank to treat him with triple sulfa. Well it said on the box that it treats bacterial hemorrhagic septicemia and fin rot, however shortly after I noticed his tail starting to rot.. I find this weird as its suppose to treat fin rot, not cause it...

With all this said I am not sure what i am doing wrong. if my goldfish does die I would like to invest into tropical fish, however I am thinking if I can't even keep a goldfish alive, how will I be able to keep several different kinds of fish alive?:uhoh:

Any help would be great :goldfish:

[krytan]

How are you acclimatising them to the tank?
How did you cycle the tank? a cycled tank should have signs of nitrates.

You may want to reconsider your stock, gold fish grow to 12" and if thats a common pleco it could grow to 24".

[Lexi_D]

:iagree: You are going to have to either upgrade your tank or find new homes for those fish. I have a 15g tank myself, and I think that's a good size for a variety of fish like dwarf cichlids and dwarf rainbows as well as many standard community fishies. (of course once the goldfish and pleco are gone...) Good luck and :welcome: to AC! ;)

[djdestructo]

Thanks for the advice :)

If I remember correctly I did not properly acclimate them. I left them in the bag to get use to the temp of the water, but then ended up pouring the fish out of the bag to put them in the tank (I know now thats NOT the thing to do :P)

The water test before I did the last one was..

PH - 7.6
Am - 0
Nitrite - 0
Nitrate - 20

Could I be keeping the tank too clean?

I also recently changed the filter sponge, and I did add a capfull of Nutafin Cycle to the tank.

I may be getting a larger tank in the future. (If I can)

[krytan]

There's no need to change the filter sponge unless the old one is falling apart, when you throw the old one away you throw your bacteria colony away as well. I wouldn't use the nutrafin cycle it's a waste of money and doesn't work.
Those fish need a bigger tank asap, if you can't get a larger tank soon i would rehome them and stock your tank with smaller fish.

[djdestructo]

Ahh ok, I thought maybe that's where the bad bacteria may have been (that's causing the fin rot)

I came home to him not even having a tail. I have put him back into the med tank and added some melafix. I would not be surprised if he did not last much longer.

What are somethings I could do to make sure I get rid of any bad bacteria so if I add new fish I am not just throwing them into a tank that will kill them in a few months?

[LeahK]

Started off with a small 3 gal tank and 1 goldfish, after about a year I converted my 15 gal lizard tank into an aquarium, and added my goldfish into the tank, shortly after he died. I did cycle the tank so I am not sure if it was just his time to go or just the stress of moving him into the other tank....

I wonder, how did you cycle the tank? I'm guessing that the tank wasn't cycled all the way, and then adding the four goldies all at once just overloaded it. Like others have said, a 15-gal is way too small for goldies--they'll be difficult to keep alive in such a small space. The problems you described, like septicemia and fin rot, can be brought on from bad water quality (ammonia and nitrite issues).

I recently just added a pleco (after asking the guy at the fish store if they are fine with goldfish) shortly after I noticed that my only goldfish left was asking wierd, and loosing his color so I converted my old 3 gal tank into a quarantine tank....

Unfortunately, many people here have had bad experience getting lousy advice from store employees. Research the fish you want online before buying going to the store. Most people here recommend not keeping goldies and plecos together. And it's especially important not to buy new fish when your old fish are sick.

With all this said I am not sure what i am doing wrong. if my goldfish does die I would like to invest into tropical fish, however I am thinking if I can't even keep a goldfish alive, how will I be able to keep several different kinds of fish alive?

It's usually the other way around--for lots of people, tropical fish are way easier to take care of than goldies. Goldies are big fish that eat a lot and are very messy. They need huge tanks to maintain good water quality. But many tropical fish stay quite small and will do fine in a 15 gallon.


Ahh ok, I thought maybe that's where the bad bacteria may have been (that's causing the fin rot)


What are somethings I could do to make sure I get rid of any bad bacteria so if I add new fish I am not just throwing them into a tank that will kill them in a few months?

The problems you're describing are due in part to bad bacteria, but bad bacteria live in everyone's tanks. Most of the time, the fish's immune systems prevent them from getting sick. I'm guessing that there are some water quality issues, that are causing your fish to be susceptible to bacteria infections. You said you cleaned the filter--this can kill off the good bacteria that keep your tank cycled. What's confusing me, though, is that you're not getting any ammonia or nitrite readings on your tests--so maybe I'm wrong about the water issues.

I wonder, are you using liquid tests or paper test strips?

As for the question of getting new fish, I would take other people's advice and return the goldie and pleco to the store, if possible. Or, if you can nurse the goldie back to health, maybe you can rehome him. But neither common plecos nor goldfish can live in a 15-gal. If I were you, I'd return/rehome your current fish, and start over and do a fishless cycle. I'd clean everything very well--all the deco, gravel, and filter, etc--and then I'd start a fishless cycle, as detailed here: http://www.aquariacentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=84598
While you're cycling, you can research what kinds of tropical fish would be good for a 15-gal. I promise, keeping your fish will be much more relaxing and enjoyable if you buy ones that are suited for a small tank.

[theredchaser]

I would return the fish and restart from the cycling process. If you intend on making your 15 gallon tank the "main" one, then I would start researching nanofish or small tropicals while your tank is cycling.

Having 0/0/0 for your intial readings sound sketchy at best unless it was right after a big water change, in which case the readings are useless to begin with. I think either the test kit is inaccurate or maybe human error. 0/0/20 sounds much more realistic, but when nitrates reach 20ppm I would immediately do a small water change.

Throwing random meds at your fish is the quickest way for your fish to die. If you are treating in a 3 gallon qt tank, that combination is lethal. A mini cycle would most likely occur, and overdosing for a small tank is very easy to do.

If you do start over fresh, I highly recommend stocking light instead of trying to max out your tank. Its a lot easier on you and a lot easier on your fish. Also, don't listen to what the part-time petstore employee tells you. The best way is to jot down species names/pictures at your local petstore and then do research at home on your own.

[mak3mydae]

if you still have your goldfish you may want to turn the themp down 75 is kinda high for coldwater

[Lupin]

75 degrees is high for goldfish?:confused: That is absolutely fine actually especially if we are talking about fancy goldfish that do prefer their water a tad warmer. My goldfish are kept in this temperature bracket of 74-76 degrees.

Welcome to AC, Djdestructo!

If it were me, I'd keep the goldfish alive as much as possible and just give him to someone else who has a big tank plus a clue on how to take good care of him. That's the kindest thing I would do for the fish. I am even in the process of waiting for someone to ship me his floaty ryukin that was attacked by his koi. I told him I'd shoulder the expenses myself but he said he'll do it. I guess it saves me my bucks so I could simply buy more quality goods for the goldies to eat. Just one way that there is always hope for the fish. Give it a chance and good things will return to you.:)

If you have any more questions about goldfish, please post them in General Cold & Temperate forum where the goldfish enthusiasts will be more than happy to help.:clap:

[djdestructo]

Wow this forum is awsome :) Thanks for all the REAL advice. last time I trust the LFS.\

I am using API liquid test kit. The original reading did show nitrates, but I if I remember correctly I did a small water change earlier in the week and then before I cleaned the gravel I did the test, so ya could be a bad reading.

I am trying to keep him alive, but with no tail left I feel really bad for him. He was white and orange, now he is a shade of pink with blood spots all over him. :(

I will do my best to get the pleco a new home.

In regrads to heaters what type/model would you recommend for a 15 gal?

[djdestructo]

Also..in terms of dechlorinating the water, this is something I am confused with. The bottle says 1 capful per 10 gal of water, however if I only remove 25% of the water, and I have a bucket with new water in it, how do I know how much I put in the new water? Or do I just add it straight to the tank (based on the size of the tank) and then add the new water?

[DeeDeeK]

Firstly, add the dechlorinator/conditioner to the water to be treated before you add that water to the aquarium. Secondly, if you're changing 25% of 15gal, that's 3.75gal, which is a tad over a third of 10gal. So add a dash more than 1/3 of a capful to the bucket. A little bit extra won't hurt so don't worry too much about being perfectly accurate.

I wanted to tell you I think you're doing a good job: As a beginner, you're asking for help when you need it and you seem to be trying a lot of different things as you are learning and though that means you're making mistakes, it also means you're learning a lot.

15 gallons is a great size. There are tons of small fish that would live very happily in that tank. Once you rehome your current fishies, check out "nano" fish and also platys, mollies, guppys, tetras, rasboras, corys - there's lots of fish'll fit.

Following are a few links to sites that sell little fish - I don't suggest buying mail order as a beginner but I do suggest checking out some of the super-nifty fishes in the pictures.

http://www.franksaquarium.com/nanofish.htm
http://swampriveraquatics.com/_wsn/page2.html
http://www.franksaquarium.com/rasbora.htm
http://www.karmafarmaquatics.net/livefish.html

[djdestructo]

Thanks :)

I have been adding the conditioner to the water prior to puttng it into the tank, and I always put in about 1/2 cap maybe less..

I think I may put my goldfish down tonight :( (freezing method)
I highly doubt that he will be able to survive with no tail or for it to grow back at all.

Any recommendations for a heater? I was told a 75wat is best for a 15 gal, but I can't find a 75 wat only a 50 or 100. Would having a 100wat make any difference to a 50?

[DieselJunki]

I have a 250 watt heater on my 40 gallon that is rated for a 75 gallon tank. I also have a filter on it rated for a 75 gallon tank. I got all of these things on sale for a pretty decent price and I figured it I ever wanted to upgrade then I could plop these puppy's into the new bigger tank. I think if you bought the 100watt heater that it would be just fine infact maybe a little better as the heater wont have to work as hard? I'm still new also but I hear alot of people say that buying stuff that is rated for more gallonage then your aquarium is never a bad thing. So long as you don't put a filter rated for a 100gallon tank on a 10gallon haha.

and I'm so sorry to hear about your gold fish. But atleast you are hear now and asking questions. That's 1 more person out there that can spread the word about fish! I know since reading and asking questions here I've made my friends fishes lives alot better and also informed new people of how to really keep a fish (they have bettas).

Good luck!

[djdestructo]

Ya good point on the equipment, I have a 30 gal filter for the 15 gal, so I guess it could be the same in terms of heaters.

I just glad to have found this site, to be able to talk with people that actually know what they are talking about rather then getting the wrong info from LFS.

Does anyone know the correct way to clean plastic plants? I was told hot water with a bit of vinegar works very well. Would that be the same with gravel?

**Update**
Found a friend with a 100gal tank to take the pleco off my hands.

[krytan]

Don't wash your gravel you'll wash the bacteria away, every time you do a water change do a gravel vacuum as well. If you wash your plants with vinegar make sure you rinse them very well before you put them back into the tank, using a week bleach wash will work better just rince very well.

[djdestructo]

Don't wash your gravel you'll wash the bacteria away, every time you do a water change do a gravel vacuum as well. If you wash your plants with vinegar make sure you rinse them very well before you put them back into the tank, using a week bleach wash will work better just rince very well.

Ok so if I have an empty tank at the end of the week, would it be best to start over, or just clean the inside of the aquarium and then do a couple water changes to make sure I have got the water correct?

[krytan]

If you have an empty tank at the end of the week and if there has been illness in your tank i would clean everything with a week bleach solution then rince until there is no smell of the bleach.

[djdestructo]

If you have an empty tank at the end of the week and if there has been illness in your tank i would clean everything with a week bleach solution then rince until there is no smell of the bleach.

Even the gravel?

[krytan]

yes

[djdestructo]

Ok will do, thanks for all the help

[djdestructo]

What about the filter? Should I wipe down the inside and brush the tubing, and rinse the sponge with tank water?
I re-tested the nitrates and they are at 15-20 ppm
If I washed out the gravel, wiped down the tank's walls and added 90% new water (to start fresh) would I have to do the full cycle again or would the filter already have the good bacteria to "jump start" it? Or would it be best to do the full fishless cycle?

[krytan]

If you have had disease or illness in your tank clean everything with a week bleach solution and replace all of the filter media, you will have to cycle your tank again afterwards.

[djdestructo]

Am I going to have to do this everytime a fish gets sick?
I tried to put my fish down last night, but just couldn't get myself to do it :(
He has just too much fight in him to let him go like that. put him in the med tank away from the pleco, don't know if I am doing the right thing or just prolonging his life by a couple of days.

[krytan]

No, but as you are going to have an empty tank it will be a lot easier to start from fresh.
Sorry about your goldfish, having to end a life is very hard to do even if it is in the best intrest of the animal.

[djdestructo]

Ahh ok, good point.
Ya I can only hope he gets better, but again I doubt it :P
Will see what happens

[DeeDeeK]

There's no need to completely sterilize everything. If the tank is really gunky, a good scrubbing using tank water for the walls, cleaning the gravel in tank water in a bucket. Otherwise a good vacuuming can do. In either case wring out the filter sponge in a bucket of tank water, and you should be good. Just set the tank back up and let the filter run awhile.

The symptoms you described are of disease caused by bacteria which are always present in tanks and they generally only sicken fish which are already vulnerable - in your case I imagine the water quality was low and there was an overwhelming level of germs. There's no need to totally eliminate the bugs, just make sure you have good water quality and don't overfeed.

Fish can recover remarkably just with clean water. With daily water changes, your goldfish could surprise you!

[djdestructo]

Ya but with no tail? Would it even grow back?

[bluekrissyspike]

yes. the tail fin will grow back if he gets better. it's pretty normal for fish to get sick during a 'cycle'. that's why we try to do fishless cycles if possible. give him fresh water and a gravel vac daily i possible until he improves. i wouldn't do a complete tear down of the tank to disinfect it if it does end up empty. i'd keep it cycled by adding an amonia source and keep doing regular water changes weekly for a few weeks so things can balance out and then add some new, small fish.

[acevudoo]

Also "aged tap water" works as well if not better IMHO.. I have a 5gal. jug and just fill and let sit over nite.. I rarely use chems unless emergency presents.. Plus it's cheaper! Good luck/don't loose heart..

[djdestructo]

Ya I have been doing 50% water changes in the med tank every day.
Also got some API Fungus Cure in the tank as well, as his tail looks like a cotton ball at the moment. Hope this helps him

[DeeDeeK]

yes. the tail fin will grow back if he gets better. it's pretty normal for fish to get sick during a 'cycle'. that's why we try to do fishless cycles if possible. give him fresh water and a gravel vac daily i possible until he improves. i wouldn't do a complete tear down of the tank to disinfect it if it does end up empty. i'd keep it cycled by adding an amonia source and keep doing regular water changes weekly for a few weeks so things can balance out and then add some new, small fish.
:iagree:

I normally use just a small pinch of fish food each day to "feed" my tank while it cycles - the regular bacteria of aerobic decay generate plenty of ammonia. But...your tank may have had an overpopulation of bacteria recently so I would choose that unadulterated ammonia liquid spoken of so highly for fishless cycling.

The cotton ball on the tail may not be fungus. Columnaris is a bacteria that often causes cotton like gunk on a wound and it is very common. Check the link.

http://freshaquarium.about.com/cs/disease/p/columnaris.htm

[djdestructo]

Would the 50% water changes be enough then?
Should I use a bit of melafix with the fungus cure or would that be over doing it?
I was thinking of removing the gravel to keep the med tank cleaner, or would that not be a good idea

[bluekrissyspike]

it won't hurt to take the gravel out if it will help you clean it better. just keep up the water changes. you have this q posted on the to forum and i was just reading it going "wtf? i know i answered this guys q today, where did my answer go?' lol

[djdestructo]

it won't hurt to take the gravel out if it will help you clean it better. just keep up the water changes. you have this q posted on the to forum and i was just reading it going "wtf? i know i answered this guys q today, where did my answer go?' lol

LOL ya tryin to get as much info and ideas as I can :laugh:

[djdestructo]

Well just as I thought I only bought him a couple days. He passed on to the big goldfish bowl in the sky this morning. BUT its been a learning experience and will be doin alot of research for the proper fish that will suit my 15gal. So far these seem to be a god choice http://www.elmersaquarium.com/c106community1.htm

[DeeDeeK]

That seems like a fair selection of fish to choose from. Double check out the minimum tank size - Elmer's recommends pearl gouramis have a min. 20gallon tank, although they list 'em on that link you provided.

Don't neglect other rasboras - there are so many kinds - and also danios, which also come in many varieties. I like glow light danios and though zebra danios are a bit common, they really liven up a tank - encourage other fish to come out of the woodwork.

http://www.franksaquarium.com/nanofish.htm
http://www.franksaquarium.com/danios.htm

[djdestructo]

Ya been filtering out which ones i can use and can't.
So far some of these are looking good

Flame Tetra
Black Neon Tetra
Black Tetra
Head and Tail Lite Tetra
Glowlite Tetra

as starters that is :P

[SMinNC]

Just read all 4 pgs.
If you decide to clean everything. See if you can get a small (media)bag worth of gravel from your friend taking the pleco. Most likely his/her tank is in good condition.
This would allow you to re-start yours, with a jump start.

The heater. Don't skimp on these.
Stealth heaters are a big favorite around here, and have a 75w.
These > https://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+3743+12060&pcatid=12060

Stuff about heaters.
Room temp plays a big part in the size of heater you need. If you only need to raise the water temp 2-3 degrees above room temp, you can pretty much go by the recommended sizes.

You don't really want to go over board with the size either. A 150w gets alot hotter than a 50w. So in a smaller tank, it could heat the water up quick and be 4-5 degrees hotter than you wanted, before it cuts off. This could cause the tank water to fluctuate up and down all day. Kind of like you going in and out of your house every fifteen minutes. With it being 100* outside and 72* in the house.

With that said. You don't want one too small either. Because it will stay on most of its life, which isn't good either.

And on the No Skimp part. A heater can malfunction. I've only had it happen once that I recall. And that just happened this year. If/when they do. They tend to do the Stick in the On possition thing. As in, it stays on until you unplug it. Hense the buy a good one, but don't go over board on the size.

Good luck with everything! And welcome to AC!

[djdestructo]

Ya i bought this heater

http://www.bigalsonline.ca/BigAlsCA/ctl3664/cp18116/si1317288/cl0/aquariumsystemsvisitherm100wattheater

Seems pretty good , its been keeping the water spot on.

[SMinNC]

Forgot about the plants.

I done the plastic type for alot of years. And just really got started with real ones this year.

This could be something to consider. As they are alot more fun than cleaning fake ones.
If your like me and get bored easily. These help that out too. Because they are always changing the look of the tank, so I don't have to. ;)

Some that will work with probably your standard lighting would be java ferns, mosses, anubias. All of these can be tied to a rock or wood. And maybe a crypt or an aponogeton for the substrate.

Between these and maybe some gravel and/or a peice of filter material from your friend. You'd be up and running in no time.

[SMinNC]

Ya i bought this heater...

I have one of those. Should be just fine. :)

[djdestructo]

Ya been thinking of plants as well, and some drift wood maybe.
Going to give the filter a clean (Not the media)
and then start a fishless cycle once the pleco is gone.
To make sure I have it right

[DeeDeeK]

Remember that plenty of plants don't tolerate ammonia well, so use the time it takes to cycle to do a little research into plants.

[djdestructo]

Ya I plan on cycling first and then adding the plants and driftwood. The X-Ray Tetras and Glowlite Tetra are looking like a good choice. Although I do like the neons.

[DeeDeeK]

I like green neon tetras as an alternative to regular neons - I think they're maybe a little smaller and I like their blue-green line very much.

[djdestructo]

I did a 25% water change (12 liters worth) and did a water test 3 days after, I am still getting 0 Nitrite, 0 Ammonia, 15-20 Nitrate and PH of 7.6. Doesn't this mean the tank is cycled?

[DeeDeeK]

I did a 25% water change (12 liters worth) and did a water test 3 days after, I am still getting 0 Nitrite, 0 Ammonia, 15-20 Nitrate and PH of 7.6. Doesn't this mean the tank is cycled?

If you have no ammonia or nitrite but you've got nitrate, you are cycled! ph sounds good, I say get somma dem fishes and put 'em in!

Don't stock it up quickly, tho'. Put in a few fish and let 'em settle in for a week, then add a few more, etc., 'till you're stocked.

If you've been good about gravel-vac'ing and generally getting the tank clean and tidy, your new fish should be happy.

[djdestructo]

Funny you should mention that, I got two guppies yesterday, they were in a tank that was pretty cold. I added the bag in to get them use to the temp, also took out a cup of bag water and replaced it with tank water. did this every 10 mins for close to an hour and then took them out with a net and placed them in the tank.

Now they seem to be in the top left corner of the tank. Not really swimming around, although they are eating. They both seem to be female (they have the spot on the back of them)

Don't know if the temp is too high, but there is enough air getting pumped into the tank so I can't see it being from lack of oxygen.

Could they just be stressed from going from a cold to warm tank?

[DeeDeeK]

I bet your guppies are just doin' that thing that fish new to a tank often do - hang out and hesitate to swim all over the tank for the first little while until they're entirely comfortable. Their water has changed, temperature has changed, and they're in a new space and have very very tiny brains to take it all in with. I'm sure once they relax they'll be very happy. Heck, they might already be happy and not even know it!

I've read guppies are best raised in the mid-seventies, so unless your water is really pretty warm, the fishies are fine. No reason they should be low on oxygen unless you've got a LOT of decay going on for some reason

Congratulations, by the way!

[djdestructo]

Ya I came home to them swimming all around. The temp is at 26C.

Got rid of the pleco as well, he is now in a 100 gal tank at a friend's place, kinda miss him already lol.