Plants dying

[greech]

Hello. I cold use some help in determining why my daughter's FW plants are dying. She is using a 12-gallon Aquapod tank with 2x27 watt Power Compacts. We have 4 plants which were all bought at Petsmart. I don't recall the names but we were told they were easy to care for. One is mondo grass which is growing out of a piece of driftwood. The other 3 look like moneywort from what I have seen online but I am not sure. Anyhow, the plants just started to decay and we have lost 2 fish. I have had cichlid tanks and am currently doing a SW/reef tank so I have little knowledge of FW plants. The substrate is gravel. We do a 10-15% WC every week/2-weeks. Do I need a fertilizer of some kind (of course Petsmart said no.) Do I have too much light? Appreciate any help you can provide.

[coach_z]

hello!
mondo grass is not a fully aquatic plant and under most circumstances will die rot and decay within your tank. this will cause an ammonia spike and affect your fish.

check out this list of non-aquatic plants: http://www.plantgeek.net/plantguide_list.php?category=11

make sure that all of your plants are aquatic. remove any dead/dying/browning leaves/plants from your aquatic plants

i would also suggest you up your water changes to 30% weekly, and do a one time 50% today after your prune out all the dead junk in your tank.

[greech]

hello!
mondo grass is not a fully aquatic plant and under most circumstances will die rot and decay within your tank. this will cause an ammonia spike and affect your fish.

check out this list of non-aquatic plants: http://www.plantgeek.net/plantguide_list.php?category=11

make sure that all of your plants are aquatic. remove any dead/dying/browning leaves/plants from your aquatic plants

i would also suggest you up your water changes to 30% weekly, and do a one time 50% today after your prune out all the dead junk in your tank.

Thank you. I will do that when I get home tonight and I will checkout the link on aquatic plants.

[greech]

So from the link coach_z provided I did some looking on the plantgeek forums and it sounds like I need some kind of CO2 because of my lighting. If this is the case, I don't think I am going to stick with real plants. I have enough on my plate with my reef and I cannot go down the CO2 diffuser system road. Are there any plants she can have that will not require an extravagent system? I have no issues with normal tank husbrandry (water changes, changing out filter media, etc) but I really don't want to go beyond that with this tank. Maybe I should go back to plastic plants? :(

[Noyesy]

I'm a newbie but I have a java fern and 2 swords in my tank that are doing well with medium/low light and no CO2. Everyone says those are the easiest to care for. All I did was shove root tabs in.

[greech]

Thanks Noyesy. May I ask how long you have had the plants? Ours didn't start to decay until the other day and they were fine for about 2-weeks.

[Wycco]

So from the link coach_z provided I did some looking on the plantgeek forums and it sounds like I need some kind of CO2 because of my lighting. If this is the case, I don't think I am going to stick with real plants. I have enough on my plate with my reef and I cannot go down the CO2 diffuser system road. Are there any plants she can have that will not require an extravagent system? I have no issues with normal tank husbrandry (water changes, changing out filter media, etc) but I really don't want to go beyond that with this tank. Maybe I should go back to plastic plants? :(


For a 12 gallon tank you could easily do DIY CO2. Cost you less than $5 to get started. You could also try Seachem Excel or Brightwell Aquatics Florin-Axis to provide a liquid carbon source.



Lack of CO2 is not going to kill your plants though- what it will do is encourage algae to grow. Lack of CO2 will limit just how fast your plants can grow. Plants growing take nutrients out of the water which means Algae get's outcompeted. With that much light on your tank if you don't have plants to take nutrients out the water- algae will.



You should probably be adding a trace elements fertiliser if nothing else. Seachem Flourish is perhaps the most recommended on here. Brightwell Aquatics Multi is what I use. API Leaf Zone is another. (I love Brightwell- they seem to have a lot of products other companies have but charge less... aquacave carries a lot of their products- whether they're as good, I don't know- but when you're on a budget and their products cost half or less the equivalents from Kent's Marine or Seachem it makes a difference).


You can provide less light and then not worry so much about adding CO2 ... Java Fern, Java Moss, Guppy Grass, Bacopa, Star Grass... lots of plants do well with less light.


One thing to note though- too much light will not kill your plants regardless of whether you use CO2. The worst that can happen is you get algae- and you'd get more algae without the plants anyway.

[Carla G]

A lot of the stem plants sold at fish shops are not as easy to grow as they would like you to think. And some of them are not even aquatic and are guaranteed to die in a fishtank no matter what you do. It's equivalent to selling a newbie a 1 gallon bowl and three goldfish.

Forget the CO2. Forget plastic plants, they are a horror.

Java fern will grow. There is a really nice one called Windlov or crested java fern. Tie it onto a piece of driftwood or a rock. Same with anubia. They are beautiful plants and virtually unkillable. Hygrophila should grow with no trouble. Any of the mosses will grow and multiply in that tank. Pick a Cryptacoryne rated as easy, low light on the plantgeek site. Crypts will "melt" when they change environment but not to worry, they will reshoot from the roots. You should put some plant tabs at the base of this one as they are heavy root feeders.

Hope this helps.

[greech]

Thanks Wycco and Carla G!!! I really appreciate the help and suggestions. I will make trip to my LFS (not going back to Petsmart) today or tommorow and see if I can find those plants and the fertilizer and root tabs (if I go with any cryptacoryne).

[Star_Rider]

which bulbs are you using? the PCL come in different ranges (K rating)

you may be using light out of the proper spectrum.

as mentioned you can grow with out CO2 but may need to deal with algae issues. add to that many plants sold(in tubes?)
may also be the terrestrial version of a plant that will grow submerged. if it is one of these it may need to adapt to being submerged.

[coach_z]

go super easy with plants, no need to start out and get all complicated and stuff.

get some easy to manage plants: anubias nana, java fern, java moss, and maybe a crypt if you are feeling adventurous.

dont worry too much about co2, root tabs, fertilizers etc. having no source of additional co2 will not give you algae, having inconsistent co2 will give you algae that is why i will suggest for you to not bother with DIY co2 or any other source.

Fertilizers: dont bother, low light plants (java fern, java moss etc.) require low fertilizers, and require low levels of co2, and they grow slowly as a result. fish waste should be able to provide enough nutrients.

im not saying that adding ferts, co2, root tabs, different lights and such is not going to help your tank. they sure will but It will be more work than is necessary, IMHO. If you want a carbon (co2) source and fertilizer source pick up the following two products and dose according to the bottle: Seachem Flourish Excel and Seachem Flourish

[FISHSHROD]

Great advice I see here . Even helps me with some ideas on my new setups !!!!!!!

[greech]

I donlt know the K rating. The bulbs are the stock bulbs which come with the AP. 2x27 watt square pin power compacts (1 dual daylight and 1 actinic bulb). They did great for my low light corals when I used this as my fisrt SW tank. Not sure how that translates into a FW planted tank though.

I did a 40% WC last night and pulled the mondo grass out of the driftwood. Also added some root tabs. When I pulled the mondo, I realized that the driftwood was actually drilled so that a borehole was there to allow the mondo root ball to seat in. The ball was surrounded by a wooly mass which I removed all of as well. I also cut away the dead portions of the moneywort. Going to see how things go for the next few days but plan to get some java fern and moss this weekend. Thanks for everyone's help.

[coach_z]

good start! now lets see some pictures of your tanks!!!!

your lights, although not ideal, should do just fine for growing low light plants...i see no need to upgrade or mess with them at all.

[greech]

which bulbs are you using? the PCL come in different ranges (K rating)

you may be using light out of the proper spectrum.

as mentioned you can grow with out CO2 but may need to deal with algae issues. add to that many plants sold(in tubes?)
may also be the terrestrial version of a plant that will grow submerged. if it is one of these it may need to adapt to being submerged.

Thanks again. It will be intersting to see how things look when I get home from work. I don’t have any pics of the FW tank. I will try and get some up soon. Here are a few of the SW tank. It’s only about 4-months old now. Sorry from the crappy pics. I really need to update my camera.

http://i709.photobucket.com/albums/ww93/greech/100_2400.jpg

http://i709.photobucket.com/albums/ww93/greech/100_2553.jpg



http://i709.photobucket.com/albums/ww93/greech/100_2334.jpg

http://i709.photobucket.com/albums/ww93/greech/100_2164.jpg