View Full Version : What is the best substrate for a beginner?
Robert H
12-27-2003, 5:24 AM
What substrate would you recommend to a beginner?
I posted this poll on my WEB site, and to my surprise, Eco Complete has 61% of the vote so far compared to only 26% for Flourite. I am curious if people here will agree.
I would add seachams onyx sand. Works great for me. But I would vote for any of the above except plain gravel. I didnt fare so well going that way.
SnakeIce
12-27-2003, 12:28 PM
plain gravel has its limits and dirt substrates tend to wear out faster(need to be redone) than comercial ones like the onyx sand or florite
laterite is good if you want to deal with the mess and cloudy water it creates
I started with epoxy coated gravel and grew a few plants that way, and now I have natural small gravel and have done a little better but am really hitting a wall with how much I can do with just gravel
now I wish to have the florite but just have not made the change yet
Lazonby
12-27-2003, 9:21 PM
I think Flourite is the be all, end all of substrates for the beginning aquarist. It's cheap(er), correct gravel sizing, easy to prepare and maintain (rinsing is a waste of time, be more careful with the water), it lasts indefinitely, it provides nutrients, and it looks good in a variety of aquascapes.
Tweakers will complain, but you did say beginner, and after the first day or so of initial setup, it's practically maintenance free. What's not to love? Personally, if you had a substrate that did it all for you, then there will be less people asking questions, and eventually less knowledgeable aquarists. You have to crawl before you walk, and Flourite is a great place to start.
plantbrain
12-28-2003, 12:46 AM
Eco complete is pretty good.
Same with Florabase.
I tried some. Nice.
I like the color, but someone needs to come out with a white/lighter tan color sand.
I have not found much difference between Eco complete and Flourite but I suspect it has more mulm like substances already in it.
A few more traces, but these substrates will only have so much CEC.
After some time has passed, they cannot hold anymore/become depleted.
I don't like folks that say "CO2 is not neede dsimply buy using our substrate."
I can say that about any substrate dang near.
You are paying for water, I do not like that, but you lose some flourite to dust also.
Still it's nice stuff.
It seems like a good substrate but I think folks are hard pressed to show differences with one vs the other of Eco complete/Flourite/onyx/Florabase.
New folks will do fine with any of these.
Certainly a much situation than 10 years ago.
I'd still add a little peat, mulm to any substrate.
I'd vote for any of the 4.
Regards,
Tom Barr
Originally posted by Lazonby
I think Flourite is the be all, end all of substrates for the beginning aquarist. It's cheap(er), correct gravel sizing, easy to prepare and maintain (rinsing is a waste of time, be more careful with the water), it lasts indefinitely, it provides nutrients, and it looks good in a variety of aquascapes.
Tweakers will complain, but you did say beginner, and after the first day or so of initial setup, it's practically maintenance free. What's not to love? Personally, if you had a substrate that did it all for you, then there will be less people asking questions, and eventually less knowledgeable aquarists. You have to crawl before you walk, and Flourite is a great place to start.
Does it really last indefinitely? So if I have enough lights (around 4w/g), then by adding DIY CO2, I never have to worry about substrates anymore by choosing either flourite or eco complete?
I'm a complete newbie in planted tanks... :D
Leopardess
12-28-2003, 5:13 PM
Last time I mentioned this, people seemed to think I was joking....
BUT
Schultz's Aquatic Soil (Profile) is a good choice. Its less than half the price of flourite and can be found at Home Depot or similar stores - eliminating shipping costs. Plus its only 6$ for a 10 (or 15, i forget) pound bag. I use it in all my tanks and they are doing wonderfully. The water is very clear after adding it, with a bit of rinsing. I just redid another 10g...put it in around 7 pm. The next day when I woke up the water was crystal clear:)
Here's a picture. Profile on the left. Flourite on the right.
Originally posted by Leopardess
Last time I mentioned this, people seemed to think I was joking....
BUT
Schultz's Aquatic Soil (Profile) is a good choice. Its less than half the price of flourite and can be found at Home Depot or similar stores - eliminating shipping costs. Plus its only 6$ for a 10 (or 15, i forget) pound bag. I use it in all my tanks and they are doing wonderfully. The water is very clear after adding it, with a bit of rinsing. I just redid another 10g...put it in around 7 pm. The next day when I woke up the water was crystal clear:)
Here's a picture. Profile on the left. Flourite on the right.
Are your tanks plants and fishes or plants-only?
(Just to be sure... :D )
Leopardess
12-28-2003, 11:41 PM
Look in my sig;) Tons of fish:)
http://www.freewebs.com/quoth-the-raven-again/tankflorapictures.htm
Originally posted by Leopardess
Look in my sig;) Tons of fish:)
http://www.freewebs.com/quoth-the-raven-again/tankflorapictures.htm
Very nice tanks! I guess that stuff really works... :D
Leopardess
12-29-2003, 10:44 AM
Yup:) I like it. It's meant for use in ponds, but a lot of people use it in planted tanks. It does not affect water parameters in any way, so thats always nice:) It's a good choice to keep in mind.
Here's a pic of the bag. It took me forever to find it at Home Depot...it was kind of off to one side and up four shelves...naturally;)
I'm assuming it looks like soils hence very small particles. How do you prevent from building up the nasty bacteria that produces sulphur based compounds?
Leopardess
12-29-2003, 1:44 PM
Nope, it doesn't. It's almost just like flourite. I posted a picture of it in this thread already;) check it out.
Aha, I thought it wa mainly muddy with some stones around it... I'll check it out! Thanks! :D
Leopardess
12-29-2003, 2:51 PM
yah i guess its hard to see in that pic. I tried to find a good one I have of it underwater...but didn't have any luck. Does this one help a little?
plantbrain
12-30-2003, 12:13 AM
Yep, profile/turface/aquatic plant soil was left out but should be included.
It's light weigh and a PITA when replanting.
This can be solved by adding something heavy like sand etc.
But still, adding peat/mulm to any of these will help the tank start off much better.
Regards,
Tom Barr
Leopardess,
How hard is that stuff to clean? Can you vac it safely?
beviking
12-30-2003, 1:55 PM
I thought the one shortcoming (other than being light) of Profil/Turface/Shultz was that it was iron deficient? I've looked at so many products I'm not sure what I know! Anyone know for sure?
Leopardess
12-30-2003, 2:11 PM
NOt hard to clean. It goes up the syphon about 1/3 of the way, but falls back down. And thats when I really stick it in the gravel.
Its "lightness" hasn't been a problem for me...I really havne't noticed much of a difference...
Iron deficient...hmm...I'd guess it doesn't have as much as flourite.....though I dose Fe to the water column....either way, my lotuses (loti, lotussess, whatever it is;)) are obviously HEAVY root feeders and are growing out of control in the stuff...so its doing something right. I've been trimming two floaters off per plant per day lately.
beviking
12-30-2003, 8:32 PM
So it isn't that light ay? Leopardess, I've seen your tanks and they look GREAT! I had never heard of the stuff until looking at your tank specs. a while back. I'm not one to argue with results. I'll see if I can verify the iron thing. I don't think Flourite leaches iron into the water column anyway so you would have to dose it.
This thread...
http://www.thekrib.com/Plants/Fertilizer/profile.html
has a lot of discussion on Profile/Shultz stuff by ppl who seem to know a bit about it.
Leopardess
12-30-2003, 8:59 PM
Yah, flourite doesn't leach iron...i guess what i was trying to say was that i dose iron anyway...so that at least the water column has it.
thanks for the compliments btw:) I really appreciate it. I need to get some updated pics up..things have really grown in. Unfortunately, that site is free..and is full on its pic limit. As you probably saw, i started another pic site...but I dno't know if people are heading over there very much.
Yah, i mean, it IS lighter than say, flourite...but it really hasn't been an issue at all. Not for me anyway:) Maybe I've been lucky lol. The ONLY thing that i can think of is that some of my hydrocotyle has SO many big leaves (three per node) that it is SO bouyant that it can be a little tough to keep down. But other than that...no probs! Besides, if you use profile, chances are that you've got a planted tank...which means you dont have to vaccum it that much anyway:) Just clean up here and there!
Checked out Walmart and they didn't carry them. They had quite a few of their soils from the same manufacturer, but not that exact one you mentioned...
Home Depot next... :D
beviking
12-31-2003, 8:36 AM
If you check the link to thekrib above, one person mentioned contacting the company and going to Walmart with an stock number. Seems Walmart should be able to get it for you.
Leopardess, the reason ppl aren't going over to the other site is they are too busy drooling over all the pics on your original site!!
Leopardess
12-31-2003, 11:40 AM
I went to four wally worlds with no luck. I've even brought a pic of the bag with me. They just plain didn't carry it. Home Depot has been the only place I personally could find it - though I suppose I didn't check any real hygroponics shops.
beviking lol...thanks again. I've been thinking about tearing that site down and starting anew. Its jumbled with pics I took before I knew what I was doing...and now I can't replace them. I despise technology.......:argh:p
plantbrain
01-01-2004, 7:29 PM
Since folks have brought up using CHEAP stuff, buying MPV turface(about 8 $ for 50lbs) is much cheapeeeeeeeeer than profile ever was.
It's essentially identical to Profile/SAS.
I was at Lowes, 10lb bag of profile/SAS: 6.98
Flourite on line generally about 12-14$ for 15bls, so pound per pound: 0.70$+ tax lb vs 1.25$+shipping.
I really do not think it's that good of a deal if you view it that way.
You save a few bucks is all.
As far as iron, profile has plenty, no worries there.
Regards,
Tom Barr