New 32 gal planted/fish

[bozco]

I went and picked up my Christmas present yesterday (the 26th). We went with a 32 gal because thats all we can afford and find space for this year. I got it as a kit because the whole thing was on sale and I got a string of questions that I'd like some imput on.

It came with the floresant canopy and two tubes. One is sun-glo and says its good for fish and the other is aqua-glo and says its good for fish and plants. As this will be my first planted aquarium (my smaller tanks have some random plants tossed in but they don't do so well under the incandesant canpoies) sould I replace the sun-glow with another aqua glow?

The filter that came with it is an aqua clear 200. I soaked the media in water from my old tanks. Will this help get the bacteria set up in the new tank? I also put a couple of buckets of my old water in the new tank as well. Will this do anything or was it a waste of my time?

The plants I'm starting with are pennywort and java fern, the jaa fern of course is attached to a piece of driftwood. I also pulled some runners from my 10 gal, from a grassy looking plant that I got because someone was throwing it away. (vaslia spiralis?) I got all these settled in last night and today, as the temperature is now perfect and the water is clear of chlorine and chlormine I added some fish.

Here is where I hope I didn't make a mistake. I added my two red tail sharks who were the first fish I ever owned. I had great luck with them when I started my 10gal tank and thought I should start this one the same way (that and they are the biggest) A book I got all about planted tanks says that its a good idea to put an algae eater in to a new setup and not feed it for a week or two to prevent algae from settling in before the plants manage to establish themselves. I put one of my japanese algae eatrs in and he's been doing his stuff.

Thats all I got for you now. Any advice, or suggestions would be great and I'll probably have more questions later.

Thanks

[bozco]

Something terrible happened after I introduced those three fish. I went to the movies and when I came home (about four hours later) I looked in the tank and couldn't find my biggest Red tail. After searching for a few minutes I finally brought myself to look behind the tank and found him on the floor. Poor guy was dried out like a potato chip, if he had still been moist I would have thrown him back in the water and held my breath.

Captain Wedderburn (that was his name) and his buddy Jack Hinks (still alive) were my very first ever fish and got me hooked on the hobby nearly a year and a half ago. I actually cried. (It sounds silly to cry over a fish only until you actually do it)

I think something must have scared him, probably a dog running past. But I am pretty sure it was a horribly unlucky accident because my poor fish had to jump nearly two inches out of the water to reach a hole that is only about 1 inch square (He was a big fish, but a narrow fish)

Anyway. Again if anyone has any advice for running my new tank please drop a line.

[Gulp]

Sorry to hear of the loss..... :(




The filter that came with it is an aqua clear 200. I soaked the media in water from my old tanks. Will this help get the bacteria set up in the new tank? I also put a couple of buckets of my old water in the new tank as well. Will this do anything or was it a waste of my time?

According to this site, the do not recommend transferring water:
http://www.aquaworldaquarium.com/NewAquarium.htm



Some ways to speed up this process is to add gravel from an established aquarium, and/or add a bacteria booster. This will introduce beneficial bacteria to the aquarium. Since the beneficial bacteria live on the surface area in an aquarium, transferring water from an established aquarium will only add phosphate and nitrate. Aquaworld does not recommend this unless you are moving fish from an establish aquarium where you may be concerned about the fish getting pH shock if they are introduced to all new water.

[~*LuvMyKribs*~]

Bozco! I got the same tank as you just reccently. Rimless right? It's a beauty. Anyways, i don't think soaking the filter media in water will help any. You should have just taken the filter media out of your old tank and added it to the filter of the new tank. With Aqua clears that is easy enough to do- even if they aren't the same size.

The lighting should be okay for now. I have an mbuna tank so there are very few plants- but within a week i had lots of algae growing in there. The lighting seems to be substantial. Sun-glo doesn't do much for the plants- so you may want to get another plant bulb. I would suggest either getting flora-glo in combination with one of your existing bulbs. That way you have a bulb that helps the plants and one that highlights the fish.

Your red tail shark probebly jumped out because of the stress the new tank inflicted on him. Maybe you should have fishless cycled for a little while- or cycled with some fish like danios. It's sad and i see how it would be next to impossible for the fish to jump out the little hole in the back- but accidents happen.

The algae eater might not find enough food right away, because you don't have any algae growing. Maybe give him some spiraluna discs to munch on for the time being, until some starts to grow.

I think i got all your questions? :)
-Diana

[PumaWard]

Red tail sharks and rainbow sharks seem to have a habit of jumping. When I used to have a rainbow shark, every time I tried to move him to a different tank he would jump non-stop until he was moved back. His nose would be all scratched up and exposed by he kept right on jumping.

I would keep an eye on your other one and cover up any holes in the canopy until you absolutely certain he won't try to do the same thing. These guys will look for holes to jump out of.

[bozco]

Red tail sharks and rainbow sharks seem to have a habit of jumping

I wish I'd have gotten that message sooner. I was on my way to the computer to check actually and I turned my tank lights on on the way past. No shark. I looked on the floor behind the tank and he wasn't there either. I thought he was hiding so I decided I'd check again later. But my dog was playing with something when I turned around and I yelled at him. Well he ran off there was Jack Hinks all dried out and covered with dog hair. I was shocked. I didn't understand it. At least now I know why.

I feel really bad though. That my fish died because I didn't know enough about them. I was really attached to them.


~*LuvMyKribs*~ and Gulp

Yes it is a nice tank. Except for the holes in the canopy. I didn't even like using the water from my old tank because it has a major algae problem. Its in the gravel and in the filter media and it grows like fire weed. I have to scrape the sides all the time, snails and algae eaters can't keep up. I did not want that stuff in my new tank. There is food for the algae eater in the new tank though, there was some algae growing on the mystery plant that I put in there. Thats how bad the problem in my 10gal is, it even grows on the live plants.

The reason I used the sharks to cycle (or was going to) was because they did so well when I started my 10gal tank.


After finding Jack I covered all the holes down to the tini tiny ones with window screening, held on with packing tape right now but I will probably glue it on later. I'm a little late I guess, but I will be getting new sharks soon, they are my all time favorites. I also added some ammonia remover to the filter. The algae eater seems to be doing just fine.

[OrionGirl]

First--learn about cycling. Sharks are not good for cycling.

Second--research the fish. Sharks tend to do best when kept by themselves. They can be real buggers and beat the heck out of anything that is the same shape as themselves.

Third--if you are wanting a planted tank--not a tank with a few plants that are low light tolerant, you will need to upgrade those lights. NO fluorescent lighting does not penetrate very deeply into the water, so light loving plants will wither and die.

[bozco]

I'm afraid I don't agree with some of what OrionGirl said about the red tails. They worked wonderfully to cycle my 10gal the first time because they are waste eaters (catfish you see)and very hardy and they were perfect gentlemen in my community 10gal, only the algae eaters bothered them and it was the algae eaters who were the aggressors. The only thing I didn't know was that they'd jump because they'd never done this before.

I am going to work on the lights though. ;)

[OrionGirl]

No, they are not waste eaters--they are omnivores. So they will eat meaty and veggies, but waste--no. There are not fish that eat waste by choice, and if your fish are eating waste, it means you are not meeting their nutritional needs. Oh, and sharks are not catfish--they are top minnows.

As for aggression--um, gee, sorry, but your experience, with 2 fish in a cramped tank, versus what I've seen in all of my own shark tanks, plus what others report.... How long did yours live? My rainbow is about 5 right now, and in great shape--and he will beat the heck out of anything that is similarly shaped. In a small tank, survival is more important than territory, so doubtless they will put up with one another. Is this natural and normal? No.

I will freely and willingly admit when I am wrong. I'm normally polite about it. But, when I am right, and comfortably in that, I see no reason to be polite. Sorry--you are wrong.

[bozco]

Didn't say you were wrong. Just said I didn't agree.

[RTR]

There are no waste eater fish suitable for hobby tanks, certainly not small ones. Scats are the only ones I know, and they are brackish to SW and very large and messy and consume all plants.

RTS are not catfish, as OG said, and are notoriously difficult to impossible to keep with conspecifics or even similarly shaped or colored fish.

1. Not catfish
2. Not waste eaters
3. Incompatable with conspecifics.

That is three, isn't it?

[Wippit Guud]

Just as a quick jump in, I've never had a rainbow shark jump (I've had 3), and I have some fairly open areas on the tank in places.

Luck on my part, I guess, I never would've even considered it.

[Slappy*McFish]

They'll almost always 'jump' when there is something amiss with the water quality...be it ammonia, nitrite, or chlorine/chloramine poisoning.

[bozco]

Their size and potential for aggression (though I never experianced it in my lightly stocked 10gal, not cramped with only five fish) was the reason they were being moved to my larger aquarium. The water is fine, I checked, and they have never jumped before. But now that I know they do jump then I will take proper precautions the next time.

I am not about to argue that they will eat waste but that is what I was told by the people I bought them from and have been unable to find anything that has said otherwise so I am only going on the knowledge that I used for the year and a half that I had these two little guys. (they did start out very small and were about 2.5 and 3 inches when they jumped) I was told by my brother's friend and a employee at the store where I bought them that they were good fish for starting a tank, that they would stay near the bottom and that they were scavengers, as in they would eat the food that the other fish wouldn't. Now I don't feel very good that this information was not complete but that is the best I had at the time and what I went on. That and the fact that they never fought among themselves and that they seemed to always want to be close to each other. My tank, and my feeding of the fish did not kill them and neither did my water. (I checked) They were very healthy, powerful fish, they just decided to bale and I am very upset about that.

And through this thread I have realized that I have been calling them redtail sharks when they are rainbow sharks. I called them redtails because we don't get redtails where I live and therefore redtails and rainbows are referred to as the same thing. That was my mistake.

Thank you for your inpute and corrections and can someone please direct me to a proper sight about these sharks as I cannot find them. I am very willing to look into these things and I'd still like to have this kind of fish in my tanks considering that they were such sweeties for me.

[OrionGirl]

http://www.fishbase.org/Summary/SpeciesSummary.cfm?ID=12069&genusname=Epalzeorhynchos&speciesname=frenatum

http://www.aquahobby.com/gallery/gfrenatus.html

[bozco]

Thank you for the sites the second one especially was helpfull, but my sharks did not display the loner behavior. Infact they swan next to each other and slept near eath other, never fighting amongst themselves. Perhaps mine were a strange case.

My ammonia in the new tank, running for 5 days now, is 0 and the nitrites are at 0.1. This matches the readings in my other two tanks.

The temperature flucuates between 24 degrees and 24.6 degrees throughout the day/night. This is less change than in my smaller tanks so it wasn't temperature that caused my fish to make a break for it. And according to the charts on the test kits (I bought new ones just in case) my ammonia and nitrite levels are fine.

Just to be safe I netted the algae eater and returned him to his former home. I have no idea what could have caused the sharks to jump other than just the fact that they had been put in strange surroundings. Oh and the pH in my water is around 7.5-7.8

[bozco]

Maybe you should have fishless cycled for a little while- or cycled with some fish like danios.

Ok this was my dad's doing. This tank was his gift to me and he's upset that it has no fish in it yet. (he's a big baby sometimes) So we went out and picked up some zebra danios. I've read that they don't produce as much waste as other species do and I hope I wasn't fed false information again. At a buck a fish I decided I'd bend and pick up six instead ofthe ten my dad was hoping for. Actually he was hoping I'd pick up some Gorami, platies, giant dnaios, gold danios, and hatchet fish. I reminded him that I knew more about this than he did (though I for sure don't know everything) and made him back off.

My ammonia levels read 0 at the moment. Will they rise with the fish for a few days? How often do you suggest I test the water after these fish are introduced?

[OrionGirl]

Test daily, and do water changes as needed to keep ammonia less than 1.

Just a note--having detectable nitrites is not normal. Nitrites are very toxic, and should be at 0 in a stable tank. You may want to have your test results verified, and check that the test has not expired.

Good for you one not letting your dad add a bunch of fish.

[TKOS]

Danios produce as much waste as any tetra or other small bodied fish. They just tend to be very hardy and that is why they are used to cycle the tank. But make sure, as Oriongril said, to test the water every day and do water changes when you start detecting any ammonia or nitrite. This will ensure that your fish will still be able to live a nice long life. Ammonia and Nitrite poisoning is permanent as it burns the gills and leaves scare tissue.

Wait a couple of weeks and then you can add another couple of fish and do water quality checks and water changes.

Of course live plants will also help to reduce the amount of ammonia and nitrite in the tank.

[bozco]

The tests are brand new, I bought new ones just to be sure everything was alright, the nitrie in all my tanks reads less than 0.1, but a little above zero because there is some colour development. It does not match 0.1 completely. I checked the tap water here just in case but I don't get a reading (good to know). I did just do a 50% water change on my 10gal though and the reading still comes up as between 0 and 0.1. The kit however says that levels below 0.3 are safe but I should ensure that they are not rising by testing again in 24 hours (later today)


Danios produce as much waste as any tetra or other small bodied fish. They just tend to be very hardy and that is why they are used to cycle the tank

That's it! These books are garbage..I'm returning them to the library! And I'm going to start going to the new library up the hill where the books aren't 30 years old. :mad: Thank you for correcting yet more misleading information I have been fed. I can't believe I haven't killed more fish already, I've been trusting this info for over a year.

Thanks for the help, I am extremely grateful (hate to see creatures suffer) and I'll try to rememer all this wonderful advice. If my test results change later today I'll post them. And with that, the danios are doing wonderful. I didn't really want them for my big tank. I bought them to keep my dad quiet with the plan to move them to my 10gal once it was empty, but I think they are growing on me, active little guys thats for sure

[bozco]

Ammonia today is still 0 and my nitrite is at 0 today as well. I have been using cycle since I set the tank up. At double doses daily. The tank has been running for 6 days now, so I don't really understand these test results. Shouldn't they still be higher? Or did the cycle and the live plants get them down quicker? I don't know. I'll keep and eye on it all though. I expect the levels to rise a little again because of the danios.