Who uses feeder goldfish and why?

[Kagh't]

So, yeh, coming from the UK where feeding live fish in practically non-existant except in really tricky oddballs, i do feel slightly curious as to why is there such a big trade in feeder goldfish.

So, after (or before) ticking the poll, please post your stance.

(and for those who need a reason, how about it's a good study into cross cultural differences in an already very centralised fishkeeping culture?)

[aquariumfishguy]

I don't think Comet Goldfish are really rare in the UK, and I'm sure people use them over there as well but if your interested in input on these fish, read the other thread in this forum regarding "feeder fish".

[PumaWard]

Pet shop bought feeders are not treated or fed as though they are of importence making them have a low nutritional diet and passing on that low nutrition to those that will eat them.

They also carry any number of diseases which I would not want passed on to fish which are of importance to me.

I will feed my jaguar cichlid guppies that have been raised in my tanks and I feed my N. leleupi baby convicts if I can't get them to eat dry foods.

Feeding live fish also tends to make the fish they are fed to more aggressive; this can make things difficult later on.

[aquariumfishguy]

Feeding live fish also tends to make the fish they are fed to more aggressive; this can make things difficult later on.

...this is a VERY good point. I have some buddies who had this problem with some cichlids.

[SayersWeb]

PumaWard hit it 100%! I have huge cishlids and have never fed them live food. Why take the risk and expense and then have to do extra tank clean-ups to compensate for the added mess?

[Gulp]

Gulp gets them every once in a while, but no more than once per month. I inspect the fish before putting them in and I have never had a problem on any of the fish I have been doing this with for the past several years. Why do I do this? Because he seems to enjoy the hunt, no other reason.

Since he is by himself, I am not too worried about the potential "extra aggressiveness".......I don't have small children that will jump in and swim with him anytime soon. :p

[aquariumfishguy]

Obviously if a fish looks diseased your not going to buy it but often times the diseases that can be brought into your tank aren't visiable ones.

[Gulp]

If it happens, it happens....... It hasn't in 5+ years. I could catch a disease from eating at a buffet at some Ryan's steakhouse, or walking through the mall, or eating at some McDonald's with a 90 on their cleanliness scorecard.......does it stop me from eating there? Is the food always healthy? Nope.......but I enjoy it. :D


EDIT: I do NOT feed them to Gulp on a regular basis and they are in no way part of his appropriate diet.

[OrionGirl]

I don't use feeders because theyy failtot provide the nutritional value needed by most fish. Feeder goldies are not close to the natural food source for any aquarium fish, and predator given primarily feeders are prone to malnutrition--not a happy thing. Of course, most of my predators are SW, and the goldies are even less appropriate for them.

[Slappy*McFish]

Crickets are the perfect alternative to live goldfish. Especially if you gut-pack(feed) the crickets beforehand with fish flakes.

[OrionGirl]

Earth worms are also a great live food. They can be chopped into chunks that still wiggle to entice most fish into eating them, and can also be gut fed like crickets. Plus, a small container in the frisge is better than a tank with feeders, IMO... :)

[fdiaz78]

Originally posted by Slappy*McFish
Crickets are the perfect alternative to live goldfish. Especially if you gut-pack(feed) the crickets beforehand with fish flakes.

Crickets are also infected with parasites, most of them if not all contain parasites. I used to raise geckos and Bearded Dragons using pellet food. I think most people feed with live food just for the fun factor without taking into consideration the health of the animal.

[snakeskinner]

I think the biggest reason is because of a common misconception that you must. I always believed that the major diet of fish like Oscars, large cichlids, etc was live food like goldfish, guppies or shrimp. My friend had some cichlids that I don't remember what they were and I can remember buying guppies and ghost shrimp to feed them. Not to mention the fun of feeding live food and watching them chase it down. Luckily I've read more and more in books and on the net and become more educated before I actually own any of these fish. Also, I think lots of "feeder" fish are bought not as feeders, but as budget keepers. I know lots and lots of people who buy "feeder" goldfish or guppies and raise them for their tanks or ponds so you have to take into consideration those being purchased. My parents bought about 10 "feeder" goldfish for their pond when they started and they grew to around 6". They have since added more and more fancy fish like comets, fantails, koi, etc. and they have all interbred so they have a large variety. I've seen tankfulls of feeder guppies that turn out great. I myself bought some ghost shrimp just for the fun of it. Most of them have died due to my lack of shrimp care knowledge but they were interesting while they lasted. Kyle

[LMOUTHBASS]

i don't really have any fish that i could feed "feeders" to - i have pictus cats which are predatory but they eat pellets - i woul NEVER buy the goldfish you see in the feeder tanks because who knows what they are carrying and just letting them swim in your tank while they await their fate coul potentially introduce a disease - they are mass shipped and no one cares about their health - especially not a chain store - maybe if i had a privately owned lfs i trusted who raised their own feeders i might try it - but i woul only feel comfortable feeding feeders i raised -
so i guess it's a no i woulnt trust it

[blitzen25bm]

dont use goldfish but i do use minnows, livebearers, danios and baby convicts. its sometimes. and i use them all the time for my belesox because thats all they will eat.

[750t]

My guppies multiply so fast and my jd is fat. I enjoy my guppies and I have to control the population or I would be completely overstocked in no time. These are healthy fish though.Also my jd loves to hunt em down.

[travelinman1969]

Goldfish are very fatty and I rarely feed them to my oscars and arowana. I prefer roseys and minnows. I only feed them live fish about once every 6 weeks and only enough that they will eat in about an hour.

[dwf73]

I have not used goldfish for quite a while actually. Like travelinman, I tend to use minnows more. I also use frogs a great deal. I am a fairly strong supporter of live foods, but I think they are best used when incorporated into a diet that includes other sources of nutrition, e.g. pellets and vitamins. I breed my own feeders so I feel comfortable with the disease issue, although the risk can never be completely eliminated, I suppose. I think that, if you are not very heartset on feeding live foods, it is a good idea to avoid them, simply because of the error possibilty.

[fordsrule_68]

I feed them all the time to an Alligator Gar thats about 18" long.

[dwf73]

wow what kind of setup do you have the gar in?

[cyberbeer65]

I will never feed goldfish again!The last time i did,i brought a bad case if ich to my tank.However,I may go to the bait store sometime and get some minnows.

[sublime1184]

CB65, I suggest that you do go to bait shop and get some fathead minnows, I get some for my piranhas and they love them....I will never use goldfish unless it is last resort behind fatheads and rosies..

[Veneer]

Though my wild-caught "yellow-banded shrimp" largely ignore processed tablets and the like (even freeze-dried krill fails to elicit a feeding response), they avidly consume feeder guppies.

[Gambusia]

I use feeder guppies, feeder goldfish, feeder golden shiners and any small fish I catch fishing to my gar and black crappie.

I have a 20" longnose gar who will not eat anything but big feeders.

Feeder goldfish do not have the nutritional value that other fish do so I tend to use small sunfish, tilapia, chubs, daces, shiners and mosquitofish.

Golden shiners can be a good feeder fish if you get them disease free.

[ashdavid]

I breed cichlids to feed to my fish, I never feed them goldfish, they are disease ridden, unnutritional fish that almost never looked after by lfs. I seldom feed fish live because it dose promote aggresivness.

[daveedka]

This is an old one, but I'll chime in just the same, I voted yes to most carnivores. The better word would be predators, after all the Zebra pleco is a carnivore as are many fish that do not eat other fish regularly.
I do not, have never, and will not use goldfish, I raise my own guppies, snails, and am working on shrimp. Goldfish provide little to nothing but a big mess, all of my fish will eat prepared foods so the live stuff is a treat for them. I personally think it is wrong to haouse an animal who likes to hunt an then never allow that animal the opportunity to hunt. Everyone has their opinion on this, and I am only stating mine. Certain fish are designed to hunt and should get to. With the Sa cichlids I keep, feeding a high nutrition diet is easy and the live stuff is used for the treat and natural instincts of my fish not for the purpose of sustaining them nutritionally. Unlike many folks, when I first started keeping Oscars and didn't know any different it never really occured to me to feed them anything but fish food. It works, but my Oscars color up better, and have more natural pesonalities when they get to hunt whether it's snails or gupies or shrimp it doesn't seem to matter, most bugs work well too and also earthworms. All at levels that don't create excessive waste in my tanks.

On the thought of Goldfish themselves as opposed to other feeders, every single Oscar I have ever seen with hith has been fed goldies This doesn't make it a fact that goldies cause it, but it's enough of an issue that I won't allow them in my tanks. I have never had a case of hith develope on a fish in my tanks, and am only familiar with HIth though adopted fish that were in poor shape when I got them.
Dave

[cyberbeer65]

CB65, I suggest that you do go to bait shop and get some fathead minnows, I get some for my piranhas and they love them....I will never use goldfish unless it is last resort behind fatheads and rosies..

Hey thanks,Sublime I will go tomorrow and get some Flat heads,I'm sure my fish will like that.

[sublime1184]

flatheads or fatheads...mine love the fatheads, thought I have never gave them flatheads
http://www.gen.umn.edu/research/fish/fishes/fathead_minnow.html

[scavenger]

I personally think it is wrong to haouse an animal who likes to hunt an then never allow that animal the opportunity to hunt.
Dave

Dogs and cats are naturally predators, and i doubt that the majority of dog and cat owners feed them live rodents or something.

[Tetra_Lover33]

Yeah, I would feel too bad putting a little helpless guppy in a tank so my fish could eat them. Tisk tisk tisk.

[fish_breeder_05]

feeders are nessesary for fish that will only hunt their meals like pike cichlids. mine ate 25 feeder guppies in 15 min.! It is very intertaining to watch

[fish_breeder_05]

feeder snails/shrimp are nessisary in all puffers diets to keep their teeth from over growing

[zazz]

Dogs and cats are naturally predators, and i doubt that the majority of dog and cat owners feed them live rodents or something.
:OT: :rolleyes:
Well, I was thinking about this too. dogs and cats(if well kept) at least get to PLAY at hunting. lots of cats stalk at least bugs and if given the opportunity, rodents and birds.
I had a cat "catch" me a bunch of earthworms once.
she just brought them in one by one and lay them at my feet with a unique little growl. I fed them to my GF :)
I dont encourage pack hunting behavior in my dogs. doesnt go over well in the city. But I do feed them fresh foods along with the prepared stuff.
Mycurrent fish are small. They get live brineshrimp.

[sublime1184]

she just brought them in one by one and lay them at my feet with a unique little growl. I fed them to my GF :)


Dam, you're lucky...I used to have to buy my GF dinner at a restraunt...man did I spoil her :rolleyes:

[Raskolnikov]

feeders are nessesary for fish that will only hunt their meals like pike cichlids.

My Crenicichla did smashingly on a diet of market shrimp and fish flesh as well as smelt. They spawned quite regularly before I traded them in.

[zazz]

Dam, you're lucky...I used to have to buy my GF dinner at a restraunt...man did I spoil her :rolleyes: yeah well, don't feel bad.
I lost my Gf cause my tank was too small.
if its not one thing its another

[carplady]

I have purchased feeder goldfish that I deliberately picked out for markings or pretty tails. I live in Kansas and when the electricity kept going out in the winter storms, I would lose my temperamental tropical fish. So...just out of desperation to have an aquarium at all, I went to the carps and Kois (hence my handle "carplady"). I progressed to the better looking un-feeder fish at times, but you might be surprized to see what some of those feeder fish turn out to be, some are exquisite. They don't need heat, in fact they are better off in cool waters. They will eat snails (yes, snails are bacterial and virus carriers) but, mostly they are vegetarians, so my daughter and I collect pond greens from a local area, and will also feed them with several kinds of pond fish food, giving them a diverse food supply.

I agree with the person in this thread who implied that viruses are rampant, even to us, from anywhere. Some of your fish are bound to get sick and die, after all, humans do, it's ok, we'll have a stronger strain of fish, or you can look at it like this, you're forced to "go shopping", maybe you'll take that opportunity to try a different specie. :)

[puppylover794]

I used to use feeder goldfish..but now I stopped.

They are actually bad for fish. Most of the feeder goldfish found @ pet stores are unhealthy and some carry diseases which they can pass on to your fish. I do NOT recommend using feeder fish!...you can always go with shrimp, tubifex worms, pellets, frozen food, or even flake food!

[travelinman1969]

Well looks like this post has re-risen from the dead. Feeder fish are exactly that. I'm sorry for anyone who feels offended by baby guppies or others being fed, but it is part of the hobby we deal with. I no longer have fish of that type but understand the means to feed those type of fish. I hope to have my old set up again some day and will not hesitate to use some of the feeders from my current tank, but mainly pellets, and frozen foods should be used first, but to keep a hunter a hunter he needs a huntee. You need to keep an animal at his best and active. Whoever came up with the dog and cat thing is nuts. I have 6 cats and they are fine without mice and others, however my new baby is a great spider hunter. :sim: We're talkin a whole different thing here. Fish for the most part are predetors that need to keep that for health, other animals do not.

But the whole question. and the root of it is, Goldfish are bad. The end.

[anthonylam]

i feed my fish feeder goldfish all the time. since i've started the hobby many years ago i've been doing it and it's not a problem for my fish. even though i know they are definitely not spent any money on in treatment but i still do it. all my fish are used to it... it makes them more hardy i guess. of course i don't stick to only feeder goldfish. i give them a varied diet of super worms and sometimes pellets as well... no problem. healthy as ever. not overfed, no problems... plus, it's so much fun to watch them get live food for themselves... carnivorous fish do that in the wild. i don't see why we should take that part of their 'predator' genes away from them. imagine if everybody don't allow their carnivors to hunt as they usually do in the wild, what would happen to these breeds in aquarium hobby in a few years time? you'll have oscars and other large cichlids which no longer know how to hunt live food! that's no longer natural! in my opinion, allow them to be as natural as possible. if u don't use feeder goldfish, make efforts to get some other live feeders that might be safer if you're afraid of disease. don't strip predators of their right to be predators! just throwing earthworms or freeze dried foods or other 'easy to get' foods won't allow them to be themselves!

[scavenger]

Whoever came up with the dog and cat thing is nuts.

Hey, its true that dogs and cats are natural predators, descended from wolves and wildcats. I meant to illustrate a point. People say using feeder fish is necessary since predators deserve to eat live prey. But the cats and dogs most people keep as pets are not fed live food.

[scavenger]

i don't see why we should take that part of their 'predator' genes away from them. imagine if everybody don't allow their carnivors to hunt as they usually do in the wild, what would happen to these breeds in aquarium hobby in a few years time?

Actually cats and dogs descended from wild predators, but have been kept a long time by humans in homes and fed food from a bowl, yet cats and dogs haven't all lost their predatory nature; they still have the urge to chase small animals, although not as fiercely as they would if they were wild.

About whether or not animals which are carnivores deserve to live a natural lifestyle, a person could argue that a dog is not living a natural lifestyle because instead of being able to roam free like a wolf or fox in the forest chasing prey, they are sitting around in someone's house and fed three square meals a day.

[anthonylam]

Actually cats and dogs descended from wild predators, but have been kept a long time by humans in homes and fed food from a bowl, yet cats and dogs haven't all lost their predatory nature; they still have the urge to chase small animals, although not as fiercely as they would if they were wild.

ok, we've done that to dogs and cats... i guess we've changed the way they were meant to be but then again, maybe it's coz they're much bigger animals and they are land animals so we can't have ferocious dogs and cats at home or they could really hurt us with those fangs and claws.
fish on the other hand, are kept in tanks. they can't attack u through the glass panels... so why not let them be as they are in the wild. after all we don't have oscar tanks on the floor with no lid's one, allowing children to put their hands in right? (oscars are just an example)
maybe u could now argue that, if wat i'm saying is true, then ppl should've kept dogs and cats in cages. but i guess wat's done is done. let's not do the same to fish. :o

[bob1962]

I feed them to my oscars and texas cichlid

[travelinman1969]

Don't mean to get off topic, but Bob, your overstocked. Hope your gettin a much bigger tank soon.

[dr_drmd]

Don't believe in it. Anyone who's been in the hobby long enough and who has had a variety of tank and fish types can tell you that an aquarium fish absolutely does not have to be fed live food. Any fish can thrive on food marketed for aquarium fish. People whose argument is that it's "natural" tend to not realize that the natural aspect of these fish left the moment they were plucked out of nature and thrown into a tank. They don't need it, and yes, there is plenty of disease that comes with those fish. Plus, the fish in the wild that are eaten are fish that are under the same living conditions as the fish that are eating them, giving them the same natural shot at survival. In the hobby, these fish are bred and kept in terrible conditions, because they're only "feeder" fish...there's just a sort of moral difference there.

[bob1962]

They don't need it, and yes, there is plenty of disease that comes with those fish.

Well, I even feed my fish dead feeders and they are as healthy as can be. Who is gonna go to the oceans, lakes and streams and feed all the fish artificial food?

[anthonylam]

Don't believe in it. Anyone who's been in the hobby long enough and who has had a variety of tank and fish types can tell you that an aquarium fish absolutely does not have to be fed live food. Any fish can thrive on food marketed for aquarium fish. People whose argument is that it's "natural" tend to not realize that the natural aspect of these fish left the moment they were plucked out of nature and thrown into a tank. They don't need it, and yes, there is plenty of disease that comes with those fish. Plus, the fish in the wild that are eaten are fish that are under the same living conditions as the fish that are eating them, giving them the same natural shot at survival. In the hobby, these fish are bred and kept in terrible conditions, because they're only "feeder" fish...there's just a sort of moral difference there.

i know it is possible for them to thrive on other types of food. but it is also possible to give them the added opportunity to be predators in the tank. all of us on this forum who are supporting the fact that there's no problem feeding them live feeder goldfish can tell u that they know it from experience. i do too. we've fed them to our fish without a single problem.

don't talk about moral difference... we're talking animals... you're saying humans breed these fish just to kill them again. u wanna talk bout moral difference?... all humans should be vegetarian then! if we all stop eating beef, we don't have to breed cows in terrible conditions just to kill them again... what about breeding chicken just to kill them again when they're large enough and supply us with KFC fried chicken or to be sandwhiched in our McChickens. i think there's some sort of 'moral difference' there if u do that... haha... c'mon dude...

natural aspect of the fish in the tank? hey, if we didn't want to keep it natural, we would not bother to put in nice live plants, gravel, heaters... etc. we do all these, even though it makes it more difficult to clean... because we want to keep it natural as much as we can. if we did not bother about keeping it natural, we would keep iridescent sharks in 10 gallon tanks for a few years and love them looking cute n active n all at that size (growth stunting or life-shortening is not a problem, we could just buy another small one when this one dies), but we choose to give our pet fish plenty of swimming space that it wouldn't feel to 'trapped in a tank'... even though we have no choice but to put it in a tank, we try to make fish feel as comfortable, or as natural as they can be in our homes.
all of us who are for including live feeder goldfish in carnivorous fish's diets have known from experience that it can't hurt them if u get them from the right source. some of u who have fish which died from disease possibly caused by feeder goldfish are just unfortunate i guess... many of u out there would rather not try feeding them live feeder goldfish just because you're afraid something might happen to your fish. but i say, it would not be a risk once u try it, and have no problems with it.

pls don ever bring up the term 'moral difference' anymore on this topic... that's totally irrelevant. let's just tell each other from experience ok.
i'd like to tell all those who are new to the hobby, never stick to one rule... in this hobby, u'll nvr know till u try. sometimes, somethings might be good for u when it isn't for others. sometimes it goes the other way.

[anthonylam]

none of us have said that we have to feed them live feeders or that they could only survive on them. we're just saying we could include them as a part of their diet. please, we are not forcing ppl to only feed them live fish. we're just saying it's alright to do so.

[dr_drmd]

Wow, do you totally miss the point. Sorry if you're angry about something (...and who knows what that is).

[Isis_Nebthet]

Personally I try to avoid it. I do feed my two clown knives feeders because that's what they'd been fed before I got them (they were each about a foot long when I got them..). I stick to rosies though. I'll eventually get them onto pellets but presently haven't had enough time to work on it.

[rosemarie0007]

Hey Bob,


That's a nice looking albino oscar you got there.

How big is he?


What else do you feed him? Has he tried to eat the loaches or africans?

-R.M.

[bob1962]

Hey Bob,


That's a nice looking albino oscar you got there.

How big is he?


What else do you feed him? Has he tried to eat the loaches or africans?

-R.M.

He is 7", so are my other 2, he ate one of my loaches. I also had a bad african, I had to flush him down the toilet cause he chewed on my south american dragon fish and killed him, he also was starting to chew on my 8" pleco.

[rosemarie0007]

No Way!

[bob1962]

No Way!

So, what kind of fish do you have?

[rosemarie0007]

I had to flush him down the toilet cause he chewed on my south american dragon fish and killed him, he also was starting to chew on my 8" pleco.


You know couldn't you go to your local petsmart or something and ask if they could accoommodate
the mean cichlid?

I don't think dragonfish go well with cichlids. They are not an agressive fish although some think they are.

-R.M.

[rosemarie0007]

I actually have 2 turtles, (not to get off topic).

(BTW if anyone knows what to do with 2 big florida river cooters please let me know!!! My son who went to college brought them back from florida some 5 years a go. I understand they can live 30 years. I know, don't purchase pets you can't care for, but my son was somewhat sad at the time and really enjoyed reptiles. Anyway these turtles are very healthy and easy to care for, but a bigger tank would be best, and we can't release them because they are from florida and we live in ct.)

So getting back to the fish thing. I feed my turtles feeders, and for some reason they did not eat them all. We have 2 feeders that ae now several inches. BTW the water quality is often filthy, but the feeders do fine, they actually eat the turle pellets.

I also keep a tiger and red oscar in another tank.

-R.M.

[bob1962]

Don't mean to get off topic, but Bob, your overstocked. Hope your gettin a much bigger tank soon.

Well, the fish are all doin fine so far, so when I get time I might get a 55?

[bob1962]

You know couldn't you go to your local petsmart or something and ask if they could accoommodate
the mean cichlid?

I don't think dragonfish go well with cichlids. They are not an agressive fish although some think they are.

-R.M.

Petsmart said they wont take fish cause they are a corporation, I was however thinking of dropping him in their gold fish tank, being he was the same color :D

[bob1962]

I actually have 2 turtles, (not to get off topic).

(BTW if anyone knows what to do with 2 big florida river cooters please let me know!!! My son who went to college brought them back from florida some 5 years a go. I understand they can live 30 years. I know, don't purchase pets you can't care for, but my son was somewhat sad at the time and really enjoyed reptiles. Anyway these turtles are very healthy and easy to care for, but a bigger tank would be best, and we can't release them because they are from florida and we live in ct.)

-R.M.

I would let you put them in the creek behind my house, but I doubt they would survive the winter.

[khombre]

i used to buy feeder goldfish for my snakehead then..
fortunately it never got sick

it was kinda fun watching it hunt, wasn't aware of health issues back then

it got bigger and ate too much so i had to stop feeding it goldfish feeders.. i shifted to roaches and houselizards.. they were probably dirty but the snakehead ended up gowing huge and healthy anyway.. til it destroyed my tank and i had to sell it :duh:

[KatsSurprise]

Well considering I had 2 Red Bellied Pirranahs for 12yrs, I gave them live food only after I checked them, kept them quaranteed, for at least 3 weeks, and then fed them like crazy. My babies(pirannahs), didnt like frozen food at all. After they past away this March,(2 more months would of been 13yrs)I decided to regroup and get into saltwater fish. But as for live, if they say carnivore,keep it as close to natural as you can get, they dont have freezers or access to our food in the wild. Like my vet said to me, if they come in used to one thing(their species)and one thing only why change it? If you were a vegetarian, would you eat meat because someone forced it on you? Yes you might get used to it over time, but it will eventually cut back your heatlth span/life span. Being Careful I agree, but to avoid no. :sad: :sick:

[FreddytheFish]

feeder goldfish can carry disease and have no nutritional value. there are other feeder fish that are healthier, and frozen fish are even better

[Debra Mark]

Never use feeders - we don't want to encourage the big fish to eat tank mates....:eek:
I don't feel the fish are missing out...they get a varied and very good diet.

[neonmadness]

i feed my fish guppies that i breed myself and i make sure that hey arent just junkfood by feeding them hi quality hi protein foods. but i only give them feeders like once a week.

[icecubez189]

man, talk about bringing an old thread back

anyhoo, i don't currently have any fish that eats feeders. and if i were to use feeders, they would be bred at home.