new rams....something weird though?

[Dangerdoll]

ok, I did some swapping with my Angels (they're not adults yet), unloaded a couple to my sisters tank, she saw them and immediately loved them. That was about 2 weeks ago. So that left me with 4, a rts, cories, a lemon pleco, nd a couple of rams.....oh yes and the danio that refuses to be netted for another tank. I went to the LFS last week and saw they had a tankful of German Rams for $1.99. I couldn't pass that up, I've never ever saw them priced so low. I bought 4 of them and placed them into my 10 gallon to watch them for a bit before putting them in the big tank. All of them have good appetites and look healthy. Well, except one. Although this one is eating well and seems to have a lot of energy, it looks as if his (or hers, they're juvies) belly is flattened at the bottom. It swims with a little struggle but for some reason it doesn't look sick to me. When he eats, he eats a lot but you would never see it. He just looks rather thin. I looked under him and it seems his bottom fins are also black where the others are normal. Is this something that the rams go through such as a stage or something? Any ideas?

[Tim Bo]

Not quite sure. Juvenile Rams, especially those that have a weaker start and don't have the necessary 'aggressivenes' to stay on top of the 'pecking order' during feeding time will be more apt to show signs of malnurishment or flat stomaches. Give him some time and pay attention to how much he/she eats (make sure it does get food - maybe raise it in another tank for a while).

[NatakuTseng]

Keep an eye on it, just sounds like it was malnourished. I'd also be very careful about keeping them in a 10gallon for too long, especially if you have two or more of the same sex, as there will most likely be a small war in there. Rams are awesome fish, and you can't beat that price, good luck with them, most of them bought from lfs are asian bred so they aren't as hardy generally, so be prepared to lose one or two, but with luck you won't.

[valerie]

Do you know if they were wild caught(most are, I think) or captive bred? if they are wild caught i would treat for internal parasites.Since it is still eating feed them a medicated food or make your own. I use Metronadazole(sp?) and mix abit into frozen food(thawed) then let sit for 30mins and feed.

Rams are very delicate and its hard to find good stock. If it is eating like normal and not gaining weight then i would think parasites.

[NatakuTseng]

most are actually captive bred Val, and the reason they have gotten the "delicate" impression is because of the asian bred ones. Generation after generation of the rams in asia have been bred in very soft acidic water and have become very specific about their water composition. Most lfs get their rams from a wholesaler that buys them from asia because they are cheaper. They are a very weak strain, and don't take harder water well, this makes them prone to get diseases and skin borne parasites. Kinda the same idea as if you took a rift lake cichlid and threw it into soft acidic water. I wouldn't reccomend starting things right out with medicated food, if you do want to start doing things to discourage internal parasites mix garlic up with the food. Another reason to avoid medication is that rams are very sensitive to any chemicals in the water. They do need clean, unpolluted water, especially the asian bred rams. Wild caught rams are much hardier as well as their european bred counterparts. This will be hard to determine untill the rams are happy, but the asian rams seem to have a lot more yellow on their bodies, and their entire color scheme is lighter in color. European rams are red dominant, generally a deep red face with a redish tint to the finage, unlike the yellow on the asians. While wild rams will generally be larger and much more colorful than either captive bred strains and dominant in blues and blacks.

A site with great info about them is here: http://hjem.get2net.dk/Best_of_the_Web/blue%20rams.html

[Tim Bo]

Excellent observations NatakuTseng. I don't mean to sidetrack from the original post...Many Rams from different regions do seem to stress some colors more than others though my own experiences shown me increasing variances of coloration in Europe. These guys are getting crossed and crossed with more and more different color morphs. Definitely more red in the ramirezis of most of Europe and the true Blues are getting brighter and brighter. I've only seen so many Asian varieties so your comments are interesting to me. I take it the Golden Ram is common in Asia as well - any experiences with this?
I don't know if I necessarily agree with the wild form being more coloful than captive bred fish, especially in light of the increased number of color morphs I see in the trade (predominantly Denmark) but they do seem to be darker in general. I'll It also seems more of the wild varieties possessing the signature blue spangles in the black spots on each side - this especially applies to the female gender and I often use this as a means of identifying females.

[Dangerdoll]

well Folks, the belly seems to slowly look better and the little one has seemed to gain more control of his swimming patterns.There has been no sign of any type of aggression but they are pretty small so my guess is because of their ages. With his progress and no other sign of distress, I've added them to the big tank last night and all seems fine so far..... I'm not really sure if they are wild caught or captive, they're pretty young and do show a lot of color but we'll see how they look when they get a little older. As for now, so far so good and all are survivors :D

[NatakuTseng]

Glad to hear all is well! And Tim what your saying about color becoming less of an identifying factor is true, but still is a solid rule of thumb. And I will let you know about the coloration on the wild rams shortly, as I have a feeling come monday I'll have a pair ordered. I don't have any experience with the golds, though on monday I'll probably order a pair of them as well if they are in stock. I think the golds were actually a european morph, just as the german blue. But like I said in my earlier post the asians have taken those strains and bred them in the soft acidic conditions, cheaper and more prolific, but wearker. In general most wholesalers don't care about anything but cost and short term health, and since LFS care about cost, they also generally don't care about it beyond short term health. In defense of the LFS's out there, they do need to make money just as everyone else, and the info is out there for individuals to learn about what goes on in order to take precautions.