Adding instant ocean to a 90 gallon tank question

[tedwagner]

I removed two 5 gallon buckets of water out of a freshwater tank. Added Instant Ocean to each bucket with air pump pumping in the buckets and stirred. The question is will 10 gallons of mixed Instant Ocean in a 90 gallon tank increase the SG over .002 and kill off the bacteria in the filtration system. Should I add 5 or 10 gallons of the mix into the freshwater tank to start it off for a brackish tank. I have 2 shark catfish and 6 minnow feeders in the tank now for three weeks.:wall::wall::wall:

[Lycanthropic]

Unless you are adding enough salt for the whole tank, it will not kick up the salinity .002 IMO. Plus that water has to be super hot when you mix the salt and you have to usually wait 24 hours. i.e make your water 24 hours in advance. If you want, start of small like that, and then do bigger w/cs with enought salt.

[bazil323]

What is the SG of the bucket water? I assume the tank is completely fresh at this point?

I'm terrible at figuring out what SG is needed to mix with freshwater to raise salinity, which is why I always cycle it at the SG I need and then just drip acclimate the fish. However, you need to know the SGs of both to figure out what you will get. Here's a link on how to mix water to make your tank brackish and subsequent increases (http://www.thepufferforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=19348). It's based on a 50% water change, though.

[tedwagner]

I will NOT put this salt water in here until its crystal clear in my brain by reading your article. I will get back to you in the next couple days or if I have any questions. Thanks for the link and input.

[tedwagner]

I put 1.5 pounds of Instant Ocean in each 5 gallon bucket that is supposed to create 5 gallons at a SG of 1.022. Like I said on my introduce yourself post (somewhere on here) my shark catfish have been in a freshwater tank, I do not believe it has finished cycleng yet? It is kind of hard to tell by my numbers, but I want to start slowly aclimating them into brackish water over the next year or so. I figured the mixing of 10 gallons of the aquarium water with 10 gallon mix of instant ocean would be a good place to start. I have to read the article bazil sent me on a 50% water change still but that seems like I am jolting them WAY more than just the ten gallons. I also did NOT mix it with hot water but I can let it sit with the air stones in it for at least 24 hours since it is already mixed what do you suggest?

[Pufferpunk]

Here's an artricle on how to raise your SG:
http://www.thepufferforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=19348

[tedwagner]

mixed up 2 - 5 gallon buckets of my tank water with Instant Ocean last night. I used 1.5 pounds per 5 gallons (actually about 4.5 gallons in the bucket) that is supposed to make it a Specific Gravity of 1.022. I am trying to figure outwhat freaked the sharks out so bad when I finished dumping it in the tank. If I have a 90 gallon tank and put in 10 gallons of marine water at a SG of 1.022, and the regular tank fresh water in there should be at a SG of 1.0...............................1/9 or lets say 1/10 of the addition of .022 should be .0022 and that should be fine becasue if I go over .002 I will kill the bacteria in the filter.

I syphoned out 2 - 5 gallon buckets and mixed the salt into the bucket. I put a airstone in each bucket and left it sit overnite about 8 hours or so.

Any response on why the sharks seemed to get really really active when I fired up the filter after putting in the marine water. Like I said it was only 9 gallons of water from a 90 gallon tank. The SG of each of the 5 gallon buckets should have been 1.022. 1/10 of a added SG of .022 is .0022. Will this harm the fish and or kill off the good bio filtration? I have 6 feeder minnows in the tank that will die before the sharks if there is a problem correct.

The sharks seem to be settling down now maybe they were just riled up from dumping the water back into the aquarium.

[Pufferpunk]

What is the SG in your tank now? Airstones won't nearly mix that much salt at all. Get a powerhead. For WC on a 90g, I suggest getting yourself a Brute garbage can for perparing water. You can pump it out of the can into your tank with the same mixing pump to fill the tank.

What are the rest of your water parameters? ammonia/nitrite/nitrate/pH

[tedwagner]

Ammonia is .50
Nitrate 10
Nitrtites .25
pH 7.6

I did not yet pick up the Specific Gravity tool but can run out and get it now if I must?

The Brute Garbage can is a must for the next WC. I can use the pump from the protein skimmer that was with the proclear 75 that I am not using because it is going to be brackish and I read both I dont need it and I do need it but the cons are the possiblity of a leak. So I am not using the protein skimmer.

How worried should I be about what I have done to them today???

I am running to the petstore for a hydrometer right now be back in 20 minutes with the reading.

[tedwagner]

1.014 SG if I am reading this Coral Life deep six correctly. It seems to start in the higher range but then drops off to 1.014. Please do not tell me this tank is going to have to recycle???

[Pufferpunk]

Wrong hydrometer, you need one that starts at FW: 1.000. You started with FW & raised it to 1.012? If yes, please do an 80% WC right now & get that down. Your tank isn't finished cycling--you shouldn't be messing with the SG at this time, until it's done. Please read that article I linked you to.

[tedwagner]

Sorry about the delay in getting back to you I did not see that it started a second page on the thread.

I just took another reading and it keeps coming up with no reading it just stays at 1.0? Done it twice and still reads the same thing..... WOW CONFUSED.

Here is what I bought to get the readings. http://www.aquariumguys.com/deepsix.html

It seems like it goes from FW at 1.0 to salt am I correct.

[tedwagner]

Pufferpunk - About the hydrometer i am submerging this six inches into the water. Tapping it and setting it on a level surface and now I get a NO SG Reading the needle is at 1.0? I am thinking it is going to be fine. Sorry if I am ignorant to this but thats what we are all on here for right? Thanks. Ted

Do you have a link to a hydrometer that you feel is correct?

I did read your brackish puffer article on SG and thats why I came up with a safe mixture to start this off with for only treating 9 galloins of a 90 gallon tank. I guess that I see the point of the other 80 gallons having to mix at the same time.??? Any other suggestions instead of a 80% water change right now with no reading on the hydrometer sitting at 1.0?

[jpappy789]

The Coralife hydrometer can only go down to 1.010. As pufferpunk said you need one that starts at 1.000 (pure FW).

Istant Ocean's goes low enough

http://www.petco.com/product/12201/Aquarium-Systems-Instant-Ocean-Hydrometer.aspx?cm_mmc=CSEMGooglebase-_-Fish-_-Instant%20Ocean-_-928887&mr:trackingCode=CF6E1416-8381-DE11-B7F3-0019B9C043EB&mr:referralID=NA

[tedwagner]

ok I will go buy one of them. Thanks for the input and I will be back.

[tedwagner]

OK I just got back and tested with the instant ocean hydometer and the reading comes back as 1.004 - I guess I should have only mixed up 5 gallons and put it in here. Now what do a water change real fast like the pufferpunk told me before I kill off the biological filter?

[tedwagner]

Ok I did a 50% water change and SG is back around 1.003, I think it needed a water change anyway.

[Lycanthropic]

1.003 is pushing it. Your bacteria may or may not just all die off.
I would consider rasing the SG 1.002/ week maximum just to make sure you dont have a bacteria bloom happen and a complete die off

[Pufferpunk]

As I PMed you, that will probably be ok--IF your tank was cycled properly. Please post your present parameters.

[tedwagner]

Ok today I done antoher water change 30 gallons from 90. Tested the SG and it is 1.002, HOPEFULLY it did not kill the good bacteria in the tank.

Ammonia 0
Nitrites 0
Nitrates 10
pH 7.6

I think that is good! Almost AWESOME! any responses. I also threw in Cycle into the filter just to be shure after the water change today. I HOPE THIS IS OVER the cats seem to have settled down now and the lights are off!!!!. Here is a video of what they were doing earler today. When do I do the next water check and water change?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HETQjBrh_1s

Thats what was making me crazy about them??

[Pufferpunk]

Uggghhh... Cycle is nothing but DEAD bacteria. It's like adding fish poop to an already taxed biological system that just started to be able to keep up with the fish you have in there now.

[tedwagner]

Glad I didnt put it all in there. I hate the LFS's the all sell crap! That is all I could find at petsmart and the wife was with me saying its all the same... bla bla bla. I will check it this afternoon and get back to ya. ### of @ %%%%%. I know what you told me and you told me in the article not to guy nothing else. My fault again. THEY STILL ARE WAY CALMED DOWN LAST NIGHT AND TODAY SO THATS A GOOD SIGN. TTYL. Hopefully be at the tank by lunch at least to check AMMON IA again, Dag nabbit! Actually I did not put in much of that stuff just 100 ml for 100 gallons to start. I also threw in a old ammonia remover bag from my GOOD tank that probally is not removing ammonia any more because it has been in the aquaclear 110 for more than 2 months. If I have any probllems with ammonia when I test it at lunch I will just take the sponge out of the aquaclear in the GOOD tank and put it in the bottom of my PRO CLEAR 75. Should be end of problem then correct? Maybe that ammonia bag I sould have listened to the IM where it told me to use the sponge out of the other tank. The more I think about it, I know its not going to hurt it. Just put a new sponge in the bottom of the aquaclear. (BTW I LOVE THAT FILTER) Maybe the ammonia bag will compensate for the CYCLE JUNK I added?

[Pufferpunk]

Hopefully, all that ammonia bag contained at this point is good bacteria & not ammonia-removing product, because you will never get that tank cycled that way. The bacteria you need to establish your tank feeds on ammonia. If you remove it by way of chemistry (rather then just water changes) you will never establish enough bacteria to support your fish. You could take the sponge from your other filter & rinse it well into a bucket & pour that over the sponge of the newer tank.

I love AC filters too!

[tedwagner]

That is what I will do tonight when I get home. It seems like the safest thing and take the amm remover bag out of there. I think they only work for a month or so? Get back at you in a few with lunch time readings.

OK here is today readings

Ammo .25
Nitrate 10
Nitrite 0
pH 7.6
SG 1.001 to 1.002 MAX

I have read about cycling and the nitrogen cycle till I am blue in the face. I dont see anything wrong with the readings today? Am I mistaken?

[Pufferpunk]

LOL, read again--any amount of ammonia is toxic. What test kits are you using?

[tedwagner]

I am using API that has liquid test bottles for Nitrate, Nitrate, ph Hi and LOW and ammonia. I am gong to test again right now. Sorry I went to bed early last night and t oday will be the same because I have to retile a bathtub tommorow.

OK here are my readiings for today.
Ammonia between 2 and .25
Nitrate 5
Nitrite 0
pH 7.6
SG 1.002

I would imagine theh AMMONIA IS UP because of the CYCLE CRAP i put in there the other day?
I have to say they really look content now insted of going all over the place and trying to jump out of the water! OOPS!

Only 5 minnows left this morninig!

OK I just squeezed the sponge out of the established tank into the new tanks Pro Clear Filter. WOW THAT STUFF LOOKED BLACK? Whats up with that. The tank clowded up immeidatly and now I am goinig to remove the ammo pad that I stuck in the back of it the other day and put it back in the other tank. After it clears up in a few hours I will test the water again.

[tedwagner]

That ammonia reading is supposed to say between 0 and .25

[Pufferpunk]

0 would be no color change.

[tedwagner]

Hey Puff the Magic Dragon! Heres some more answers and questions for you. Thanks for all the help! Wow maybe three tanks are just overloading my brain. I will post some photos of the other two tanks tonight for your enjoyment of what I am getting help with I know we are in the brackish area here but these are getting posted on my page for you right now.

The shark tank looks great and they are hanging out on the bottom, swimming back and forth, BUT when I squeezed the sponge into the dish and then dumped it into the filter of the shark tank they seemed to instantly start going nutzo again like the other day. The reaings of the tank are the same(really cole to the ones below) from the barb tank.

The shark tank ammonia reading today - it is betwwen the green and no color change of yellow. WOW since I have been letting the wife feed (her little piggies) in the other tanks, I just tested the water in them and had blow out nitrate reading so I just finished 1/2 water changes on them two tanks. SHE WAY OVERFEEDS THESE GUYS, and the proof is in the GRAVEL. I dumped the 5 gallon buckets of fresh water back into the G0000 D000mn Tiger Barb tank and its like its SNOWING DECAYING FOOD in there. Wait till she gets home and I am going to make her drink some of the water and ask her how she likes it, LOL just kidding. She needs to STOP feeding these little guys so much. The concern with me is it is a hanging magnum filter on the back of that tank and I gurannnnnnnteee it will be pluged tommorow and stop pumping making me rinse out the polyfilter, ACTUALLY if I just squezze it out and put it back in I will not really upset the tank and force it to recycle like I would by rinsing out the filter media CORRECT?

Any way both my other tank readings looked the same today so here is the reading from the barb tank before the water change, THIS IS TELLING ME TO CHANGE THE WATER NOOOOOWWWWW correct?

Ammonia .50
NITRATE 80 yes 80
Nitate 0
pH 7.6

The Nitrates are getting rid of the ammonia and that consists of the poop and decaying food that has not been ate that has been sucked down into the gravel and that is what I flushed up when I dumped in the water into the Barb tank, AND THAT IS AFTER A QUICK GRAVEL VAC!!!!

Just FYI these are my other two tanks, both 45 gallon fresh, one with tiger barbs only in the tank and thats the tank that was just mentioned with the water readings, PLUS I just added 12 baby tiger barbs last week. This is the old catfish tank, the cats were in with the barbs but my barbs kept disappearing. Thats why I added more last week because the tank is well established and all my little barbs were gone by the time I got the cats moved over. That is why I was rushing to get them into the new tank and now that I am thinking about it, what was the rush? They ate all the tiger barbs in the tank and I c ould have let this monster tank cycle for a while? I know me and everyone else just think we can throw fish into a tank after there is water in there. Oh yea I found the 6th minnow today he was not yet eaten and he was sucked into the tank on the back with the pre filter in it. I am surprised they have not all been eaten yet.

All I have to say is these two columbian shark catfish are AWESOME to watch in their new home. I will do another water change on it tommorow because of the trace of ammonia.

Why is the Nitrates elevated SO HIGH in my other two fresh tanks. Because of OVER FEEDING to bring down AMMONIA in the waste from the fish and the food decaying in the gravel? I know read again about nitrogen cycle. Am I just stupid, hell no I am a college grad in Science?? I dont understand so maybe I need to look it all over again and take more time to figure it out like you said.

Thanks Puffer.

Ted

[Amphiprion]

What is the SG in your tank now? Airstones won't nearly mix that much salt at all. Get a powerhead. For WC on a 90g, I suggest getting yourself a Brute garbage can for perparing water. You can pump it out of the can into your tank with the same mixing pump to fill the tank.

What are the rest of your water parameters? ammonia/nitrite/nitrate/pH

There's some emerging evidence that shows these cans may be completely unsuitable for water mixing and storage. I may end up changing mine soon.

[tedwagner]

Thanks for that info. I am sticking to my homer HOME DEPOT BUCKETS for now ( UNLESS YOU KNOW SOMETHIGN BAD ABOUT THE PLASTIC)? and just adding a couple of cup fulls of salt into the bucket of 5 gallon over the next year or so after WAY overshooting the SG. I mean it was basic math with the instant ocean. 10 gallons of salt mix (3 lbs) 1.5 lbvs per 5 gallons would raise the SG to 1.022 in each bucket. I figured when I added it to the tank it would be 1/10 of 1.022 or NEAR 1.002! I have a 90 gallon tank so I figured 100 gallons to make the math simpleWhy I overshot it is beyond me but since it is brackish and I am thinking I have it under control now I wam only adding a few cups every couple weeks now. I thought they were goinig to die the other day. Thanks again for the info on the bad Brute Garbage Cans. They are kind of reminding me of the CYCLE I made the mistake of buying at PETSMART the other day! Shhhhhhhhoooooooottts. 15 bux wasted.

[Pufferpunk]

I've been using a Brute garbagr can for mixing for 3 years now. Proof is in the "pudding":
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v345/Pufferpunk/90gReef/FTS.jpg

[Amphiprion]

The thing is that there is the possibility that not all containers have this problem. However, the real issue is far more subtle than external growth and apparent health. The damage seems to be mostly on the reproductive level, as in reduced fertilization rates and gamete survival.

[Pufferpunk]

Hmmm... interesting! Does it help any to know that my Galaxia spawns regularly, as do my Citron gobies (yes, I've seen fry too).

[Amphiprion]

Those species may not be as susceptible or your particular can may be fine. There are too many variables involved, yet at least some brute cans have been verified to cause this problem--and they ere heavily used ones, as well.

[Pufferpunk]

Glad mine doesn't seem to be one of them.