New Tank Owner: Some questions..

[theFinn]

Hi everyone.

My wife got me a great Christmas present, a 20 Gallon Aquarium starter kit. So I've started doing some hardcore research on exactly how to have some fun with this hobby. There's so much information out there that I need to come an ask some questions from some people with experiance in this, so here I am :)

The kit came with everything listed here: http://www.hagen.com/canada/english/aquatic/product.cfm?CAT=1&SUBCAT=111&PROD_ID=01132200010101

So my first question is, this this decent stuff? Is there anything I should replace? (I can already tell the thermometer is a bit crappy so I think I'm going to get myself a nice digital one.)

Secondly, I have all kinds of visions for how I'm going to 'aquascape' this tank.

I'm going for some real astetic appeal here so I'd like to put down some nice black sand with white intermixed in it. Since I'm thinking of sand I'm wondering what kind of issues I might run into with the filter and such. Is it going to suck up a lot of sand or will the sand stay pretty stuck on the bottom?

What about cleaning sand? I've heard some people say they just need to skim the bottom a little and suck up the exess food that sits on top, and others that say they never clean their sand...

If you think sand it too much for the beginner aquarist can you suggest some nice, small grained, black & white gravel?

Next up, plants. Real plants seem like a bit too much work for me. I'm happy with tending to fish and checking water quality and all that jazz, it makes the geek in me happy (woo test kits!), but I'm not much of a gardener so the thought of looking after real plants kind of turns me off. What are some good fake plants I can get that look half decently real? The kit came with a couple plastic plants but they look awfully fake..

Lastly, the most important thing, fish. Since it's a 20 gallon tank I was thinking of getting a group of small schooling fish (black neon tetras most likly), then a couple of larger, slower moving fish, then a couple/three bottom feeders to keep things a little cleaner.

What are some of your recommendations in this area?

Thanks for any advice you can give! I'm really looking forward to outfitting my tank and starting to cycle it :D

[SnakeIce]

ok aquaclear filters are ok... don't know what size yours is but it should be ok

what brand is the heater... I have had some trouble out of some kit heaters.. ie they won't shut off or something or another

most thermometers these days work so replaceing it is a personal thing... go with what you are comfortable with


on substrate... sand is one of the things you considere if you want a planted tank... a small amount of an aquarium safe gravel would be a better way to go, you won't have to worry about compaction with gravel and the resultant troubles possible with that

an ideal amount of gravel is only an inch or less but if you want to have a little bit more to make your aquascape better just be sure to use a gravel cleaner syphon to take the gunk out of the gravel from time to time

there are silk plants that look better than most plastic plants and there are a few plastic ones that look good.. just look at some planted tanks and try to get some that come the closest to matching realistic live plants


first befor we talk about fish, since it sounds like you havn;t gotten any yet, there are two ways to make the tank able to support fish..

slowly add fish and doing lots of water changes or
use pure amonia to cycle your tank, using a test kit to put in a cirtain amount the good bacteria will build up to a level so you can put all your fish in at once

but iether way you need to be patient

edit:typos

[Leopardess]

I must praise you on taking time to research BEFORE you jump into sticking fish in the tank! Woohoo! And, you're thinking realistically in terms of fish, rather than dumping a foot long arrowana in the tank and then asking us why things are going wrong! Congrats!:dance

I would like to suggest the fishless cycling method that was mentioned (using pure ammonia). It is really easy and doesn't cause any fish to have to go through the cycle. Plus, since black neon tetras aren't *that* hardy...you'd probably lose a few during the cycle, unless you bought danios or something else that you'd have to end up return once the tank is cycled:) Just make sure you find *pure* ammonia with no additives - available at most any grocery store.

I would perhaps avoid the sand substrate. It does tend to compact and turn anaerobic...not good for aesthetics or your fishies:)

i'd suggest getting a gravel vaccum no matter what. I wouldn't go without mine:) You'd be surprised what yummy things you find in the substrate;)

i think it would be cool to have say, 6-8ish black neons, and say, three or four corydoras...and one of the gouramis as your slow-moving "centerpiece" fish. A dwarf gourami would work well also, but I'm partial to Pearl & Platinum gouramis.


Congrats again about checking BEFORE spending money and killing fish;)

[theFinn]

Leopardess: Thanks. I wouldn't dream of just throwing fish into a tank before figuring out what I need to do to keep them alive. Much to my wife's chagrin, when I told her I'd have to cycle the tank and it could take several weeks she rolled her eye's at me and said 'just toss some fish in it'..heh

I'll be doing the fishless cycle method, I found some good tutorials for it in the FAQ topics here.

It sounds like there isn't much support for using sand, I'll see what I can find in the way of nice black gravel...

Thanks for the fish suggestions I'll find some pics of the gourami and see if I like how look.

Keep the info comin' guys thanks.

[Leopardess]

Can't waste an opportunity to share pics! (Please forgive me lol...I got a digital camera for xmas;))

Thats a neon blue dwarf gourami...almost all the ones at lfs's are males..females are dull and "boring" and are usually specially ordered...

[Leopardess]

Male Pearl gourami...

[Leopardess]

lastly, my platinum gourami....

Thanks for putting up with me !lol

[theFinn]

Hmm, can't say that I really like the looks of the gourami, not enough...fin...

I'm looking for something that's quite visually appealing for a 'centerpeice' fish, perferable something that I can get a pair of. Obviously the first fish that comes to mind is the Anglefish, but I've heard they're not too compatable with tetra's and need a rather large tank...

[Leopardess]

Not enough fin on a pearl gourami!:eek: Never! IMO they make awesome centerpieces. The pic I posted of the pearl is even a sub-adult male..he's still developing.

Avoid the angelfish...its hard to find pairs and they need a bigger tank than a 20g. plus the tank should be tall.

If you're looking for fin, try a betta.

[Grassguy]

If you want lotsa fin, get a betta....just one male!

I have found that the red bettas show off real well with black gravel...great contrast.:cool:

[PumaWard]

Another good choice might be a pair of kribensis. They don't have much for finnage... but I think their interesting behavior makes up for it.


http://www.netpets.com/fish/reference/fishid/fresh/details/images/Kribs-n-Fry.jpg (pic taken from google search)

You could even have a breeding pair in there if you wanted.



I will say that at the petshop, my kribs looked rather dull; now both have extremely vibrant colors.

[OrionGirl]

Black paradise fish--tons of fin, tons of personality. Will limit the other fish--they tend not to share well with other mid-top water fish. But, pretty fish!

[theFinn]

I don't really like betta's, but then I've only really seen them in the stupid tiny bowls everyone seems to keep them in... If I can see them in a nice tank setup I might change my mind.

The Kribs look interesting, I like the coloring of them in PumaWard's picture. And they're about the right size to have a nice pair of them.

I like the Paradise fish as well, they seem to have some nice color.

I really like the looks of the 'Barb' family of fish (Tiger Barbs in particulare) but they seems to be somewhat agressive and everyone suggests they be kept in larger schools then I have room for.

I like that looks of most of the fish in the Cyprinids family, the Harlequin Rasbora in particulare. Any issues with this fish? It's quite a bit smaller then the other's we've been discusing so a small group of 4 along with say 6 black neon tetras and a couple corys would make a nice little setup...

[Grassguy]

Those are all nice fish. I agree, the bettas never do look good in the stores because they're in those small bowls right next to one another, so they're also tired from flaring at one another. I have actually carried one around the store while looking for tankmates before. When I got to the counter, he was looking much better. Just suggested them cause you wanted some finnage....& man, do they have it.

[Leopardess]

hehe, if you're looking for finnage...and kind of like the betta idea...and have some cash to spare...hop on over to www.topbettas.com. Now THERE are some fins.

Harlequin rasboras are incredibly peaceful fish. They would get on wonderfully with some cories/black neons.

Have you seen celebes rainbowfish or threadfin rainbowfish? Amazing fins. They are very delicate little guys though - so water parameters must be very well taken care of.

[theFinn]

Another item I just thought of...

Backgrounds. The tank doesn't have a background or anything on it, what sort of background options are there?

[Leopardess]

I would suggest a plain black or blue background, preferably black imo. If you get a printed one, you'll probably end up replacing it later, trust me;) lol. I think they're made of vinyl - is that how you spell that? It is looking very odd to me atm. Hmmm...

There are also 3D backgrounds...but they run really $$.

For a natural look, you could use cork bark on the inside of the tank...though they usually get siliconed in before the water is in the tank. I have heard of pushing them up against the back and holding them in place with gravel though. You can also use cork BOARD squares *make sure its the untreated kind*.

[Slappy*McFish]

I love black backgrounds too, but a color no one ever mentions, that looks awesome IMO, is dark green. Black shows off the colors of the plants and fish, while green looks the most natural...alot more so than blue. Blue always looked 'swimming poolish' to me. At least in freshwater tanks anyway.

[theFinn]

I popped into the pet store after work today and picked out the items I needed to get to the tank up and running so I can start cycling.

I decided to go with gravel as it seemed as a more newbie friendly substrate. I found a nice, glossy, black gravel and mixed in a small bag of nice white gravel (5lb white to 15lbs of black) and overall I think I have a quite nice bottom layer for my tank.

I also got a few silk plants and once in the water they look quite realistic. I think I'll get a few more however as it's looking rather sparse. As decoration I found a neat little sunken ship and some stacked stones with swim thru's.

Now onto my latest issues. I tested the pH and GH of my water with the following results:

ph: 7.6 or 8.0 (not 100%, the color for 8.0 is quite similare to what would be between 7.5 and 7.8.. my wife said it was 8.0 I thought it was around 7.6)

GH: around 143 ppm GH

Is this high of a pH going to effect my current fish choices?

I took a good long look at the fish in the store today and after seeing live gouramis up close I like them alot more and may go with a couple of platinums...

I was also quite amazed by how much the info at the store on the tags differs from what I've seen online. Granted, I was at PetSmart (a 'big box' style pet store) so a straght up Aquarium/Fish Store will be better I'm sure :D

I've got water in my tank now...I'm so excited :D

[TKOS]

Hey there,

Gouramis will do fine in that hardish water. Just make sure that they get acclimated very slowly. Also, find out what the water params are in the fish store. That will help you decide as well. If they keep their tetras in the low 70's then you should be able to acclimate them to your water quality. If they adjust their water to 6.5 or so then it will be more difficult. I do keep a group of silver tip tetras in the high 70's and they have been doing great for almost 2 years now. Just keep it stable is the most important thing.

Don't try and adjust your water at this satge. Try and find fish that work well with the situation you have. Fish like guppies, swordtails, platies and mollies all work wonderfully with harder water and make great pets.

The AC descriptions of fish on thr main page are very helpful and give a pH range.

I know you don't really want live plants but the next time you are in the store look for Java Fern. It is a super hardy plant that is very forgiving and is generally a slow grower. You can just stick it in the gravel and walk away. It makes nice full fern leaves and you get the added benifit of it using some of the nitrogen from the water to keep the water quality better.

[theFinn]

Oops...note to all the newbies out there. Make sure you completely read the instructions that come with your test kits.

I started my fishless cycle by throwing some ammonia in. I did a test, nothing came up. I put more ammonia in, tested again, nothing. And again...I figured something was wrong when I could smell the ammonia in my tank so I decided to read the instructions for the test kit again...

Oops..you need to combine the stuff from bottle #1 AND bottle #2...I figured bottle #2 was there in case you ran out of #1..

Anyway, did the test and it went WAY off the scale. It should have turned green, it turned midnight blue...oh my..probably had something like 50ppm in there...

I changed out about 90% of the water this morning, hopefully I don't screw anything else up :D

[Slappy*McFish]

:argh