Nitrates, nitrates, and more nitrates (and GH and KH)

[adblair]

OK.... here's a brief history
15 gallon
whisper HOB filter
2 neons, 2 smallish black tetras, 2 cory cats, and 1 iddy-biddy upside down catfish
76 degrees
had a HUGE algae problem, posted, got advice, took it-
cut back on feeding
started testing water more closely
ADDED 3 plants, 2 siamese algae eaters, 2 ottos
got a timer for my light

NOW, my current problem is NITRATES! I can't keep them down. I keep doing partial 25-50% water changes to try to bring them down, but the next day they are right back up there! Should I resort to a chemical of some kind to bring them down?

AS OF TONIGHT my current readings are
NITRATE - 80ppm
Nitrite - 0
GH - 150ppm (hard)
KH - 80ppm (moderate)
pH - 6.8

Are my GH and KH ok? Do they have anything to do with my nitrate problem?

[Eiblis]

Hiya
have you tested your tap water to see the nitrates in that?

If so.what are the readings for it?

[adblair]

Tap water nitrates are 20 ppm.

[OrionGirl]

Since your tap nitrates are that high, water changes are not going to help. So, you can either use filtered water (RO, RO/DI), or setup a veggie filter. Try adding some duckweed--it sucks up nitrates pretty quickly, and you can just throw the excess away. Or--bag it up and sell it on Aquabid--not sure how much of a market there is, though!

[adblair]

Where can I get duckweed? Do I plant it or just hang it in the tank?

[TKOS]

Most fish stores that sell live plants have some. It just floats on the surface and can multiply really fast. It comes in different shapes. Any floating or stem plants will probably help get those levels down a bit. Water Sprite, Hornwort, ect...These plants absorb fromt he water column and don't rely on their roots as much as swrods and ferns tend to.

[aquariumfishguy]

Originally posted by OrionGirl
Since your tap nitrates are that high, water changes are not going to help. So, you can either use filtered water (RO, RO/DI), or setup a veggie filter. Try adding some duckweed--it sucks up nitrates pretty quickly, and you can just throw the excess away. Or--bag it up and sell it on Aquabid--not sure how much of a market there is, though!

....Well I dont see why a good few water changes wouldn't help? If tap water is 20 ppm, and tank is 80 ppm...I don't see why you couldn't keep the Nitrates under 30-35 ppm? 80 and 20 is a big difference you know.

[Eiblis]

Im not sure if you have products in the US called nitrozorbs.....they are sachets that can be added to filters that absorb excess nitrates..

What is your feeding routine on the tank now adblair?

How often are you doing water changes?

How long are the lights left on in the tank
and how long has the tank been cycled?


sorry to ask so many questions:)

[aquariumfishguy]

I'm not sure if we have that perticular product either, but I do know there are nitrate absorbers here. Dont recall the name however :(

[OrionGirl]

Large water changes will remove a significant amount of the nitrates, but smaller ones just won't hack it. Removing 20% of the water removes 20% of the nitrates--16 ppm, or there abouts. But, the water you're adding back in contains 20 ppm! A net gain of 4 ppm. A 50% change would remove about 40 ppm, so there would be a reduction, down to 60ppm. Go larger, and you will have a larger reduction. Small changes just won't cut it.

Yes, the math is simplified, but you get the idea.

[ikeepfishes]

This might be handy. You enter the nitrate level of your tank and tapwater, and how much nitrate increases by, and it does the maths for you.

Water Change Calc (http://www.practicalfishkeeping.co.uk/pfk/pages/water_change_calculator.php)

Mike.

[aquariumfishguy]

Thanks for that link...its very cool!

[adblair]

OK... sorry to be away for so long.... I had to go out of town ...
Ya'll are so helpful! Thanks for the info. I checked into the duckweed and was told by the FISH SPECIALTY STORE in Nashville that duckweed was a "summer plant" and they didn't have any this time of year. They also told me that I shouldn't be monitoring my nitrates, not to worry about them. Uh, ok.... but then why do they make nitrate test kits? :rolleyes: I also checked Petsmart and they didn't have anything floaty. I guess I will keep looking on that.

Eiblis asked:

What is your feeding routine on the tank now adblair?

How often are you doing water changes?

How long are the lights left on in the tank
and how long has the tank been cycled?

I have fed my fish once (or twice if they are lucky) a week for the last 2 or 3 weeks, because I have been out of town a lot! But recently I have been feeding every 2 or 3 days.

Water changes lately have been off schedule, but I have changed daily for a few days at times.

My lights are on a timer for 13 hours per day. And the tank has been up and running about a year and a half.

[aquariumfishguy]

LOL...dont know if I would be listening to any place who said NOT to test nitrates! :p Sounds silly to me...that is, that they said duckweed isnt available because its summer? haha...duckweed is all over the place here and its winter in Michigan. It might not grow well outdoors but that doesnt mean they dont have any growing indoors.

[adblair]

Yeah... It's sort of scary when the fish SPECIALTY store tells you something that crazy! It's been a chilly 31 degrees today.... days like this I don't miss Michigan...... but this summer when it is 102 with 98% humididty I might have a different opinion!

[JSchmidt]

Personally, I would not be fretting so much over your nitrate levels. Nitrates by themselves are not terribly toxic; we use them principally because they're easy to measure with hobbyist tests and we presume that as nitrates build up, other nasty compounds do, too.

If you're starting with 20 ppm, you just have to take that into account when you do water changes. I live in an agricultural area where the water often has 15-20 ppm nitrates, and I'm able to keep most of my tanks, which are non-planted, below 40-50 ppm nitrates. (Not so easy with overstocked mbuna tanks, but that's a special case.) When my tanks exceed the tapwater nitrate level by 15-20 ppm, I know it's time for a water change.

You can plant your tanks heavily, or use RO water, but that's probably not necessary. Just keep track of you baseline level of nitrates and try to keep your tanks within 20-40 ppm of that.

HTH,
Jim

[RTR]

I'm with Jim. Nitrates are best used as a general pollution indicator, and whatever your particular baseline, the nitrate test can still give you plenty of information on build-up of undesirables in your tank.

On a slightly related topic, any LFS that said not to test nitrate I would mentally re-name as the First Church of Aquarium Mythology, and take all future pulpit remarks for what they are worth. They are either sadly misinformed or dumb, perhaps even stupid. But it is not your job to retrain or convert them. Discretion will make for a better relationship, you can simply agree to disagree on test proceedures and resulting practices. You can also be assured that your fish will be heathier than theirs, but you do not have to point that out to them either. :p

[Grassguy]

We do have Nitrazorb here in Georgia, and I have tried it. Never really noticed any difference though. Maybe I didn't put enough bags in my filter.:confused:

[adblair]

You're probably right about not getting too upset about my nitrates. Those fish have been in there about a year and a half and until recently I didn't even know I was SUPPOSED to test for anything other than ammonia. They are growing and their color is fine, so I guess they like it here. I'll relax a little and just keep my eye on it.

[aquariumfishguy]

Well I guess you could say that about many testers...for instance, Ammonia tests isn't as important after the tank itself has cycled however they should be kept around just in case. ;)

Nitrates in your case are an issue just because you have 20 ppm coming out of your tap. I would watch this, but wouldn't overly stress out over it.