150 gal saltwater setup

[eceon]

Hi. First post.. however, been reading these boards for a while now. I am glad to be among such knowlegeable posters, and hopefully I will be able to contribute my help in the near future. Anyways, here is my situation...

I just recently acquired a used 150 gal Oceanic tank and stand. My filtration consists of a CPR wet/dry (200 gal), Lifesystems prefilter, and a Eheim 2228 canister filter to assist in water flow. In addition, I am using a Lifegard UV sterilizer and a external heater (don't know brand), all of which is being used in conjunction with the Eheim filter. Also, in the near future I intend on using LR and crushed coral/sand as another source of biofiltration.

Currently, I have only just begun by doing a basic wet run testing for leaks and studying the water movement in the equipment I am using. The CPR is working like a champ, although a bit on the noisy side. I have read that a ball valve could help me reduce the noise significantly, so I may do something like that. However, last night I wasn't able to get the Eheim to move water, and in effect was not able to observe the operation of both my UV and heater. ...But, I think the solution is obvious enough thinking about it now, in that I have to siphon water to get the movement going. I hope the solution is as simple as that. :p

Basically, my intentions are to begin with fish only setup with LR, crushed coral a hermit or two for cleanliness, an eel (maybe) and some anemonies (perhaps? ..you tell me). Tonight, I will go home and try and get the canister flowing. By tomorrow morning, I would like to start pouring in the salt and get my salinity and temp at the proper levels. Now, for cycling, I have been advised by a few ppl that there is something I can by to speed up the process. It is called Bio-"something", I forget. But, everyone tells me this is an excellent product that wont make my levels as extreme as they potentially could be. I think I may use this product (if i could remember the **** name).

Well, that's my situation. These boards are a great source of information and I would appreciate any words or advise from any of the members on here. Again, I'm glad to be aboard. And with hope, my new hobby will excel with your help and contributions.

e

[Gealcath]

Dont use crushed coral for the bottom, use sand, or else you will kick yourself later once you learn that sand (even normal silica playsand) is better then crushed coral.


Anemones require and well matured aquarium, so they are not something you can start off with.


Dont fall for any produvts you may find or hear people suggest, like bio-spira or Cycle. The best methode is to get 2 cocktail shrimp and let them decay in the aquarium as it cycles (this will cause ammonia and nitrite to be off the scale, once both are at 0 your good to go)

[eceon]

thanks for responding, gealcath.

1. so, regular sand is better than a crushed coral solution? how many inches of sand should i use? do ppl use both crushed coral and sand together, and if so, what are the dis/advantages?

2. bio-spira. that's the product i was trying to think of. so you do not approve of using this method in place of a normal cycling process? i've had a few ppl tell me that this works like a charm. again, what are the advantages or disadvantages of using this product versus using cocktail shrimp? you are the first person i spoke with who does not like this product. is there anyone else out there who has had experience with bio-spira and have anything to say about me using it?

thanks again...

[Gealcath]

The bacteria you want in the aquarium which is Anerobic require a oxygen low envoirnment. Crushed Coral doesnt promote the growth of this bacteria because water flows through it easily, which is usually oxygen rich. Also Crushed Coral has sharp edges that will damage or kill many of the tiny and microscopic organisims that eventually appear in a matured sandbed (which is why mixing crushed coral and sand is not a good idea). 3-4" sand bed will do for nitrate reduction, also the smaller the grain size of the sand the more surface area the bacteria have to grow on, you want sand with a grain size similar to sugar. If you can find any south-down Arogonite playsand (only certain Home-Depos carry it), that is the holy grail of sand, a 50lb bag costs $4 while getting a 10lb bag of live sand (which is Arogonite sand, and usually nothing is still alive) will cost around $24.


Products like Bio-Spira may work, but its liek asking what the shelf life of live sand is, its hard for anything to stay alive in those conditions. Thats not to say it doesnt have any benefit, any bacteria thats alive will help the cycle, but you would have wasted money while doing a fishless, cocktail shrimp cycle will do it more effeciantly and naturally.

[eceon]

great information! :) thanks

do you have any suggestions on my eheim plumbing setup? basically, the canister draws the water, passes thru the UV sterilizer, through the heater and out into the tank. i have been having some leakage trouble with the canister filter and am so discouraged that i am thinking of abandoning the thing altogether. i figure the cpr trickle down will be more than enough filtration.

in place of the canister, i was thinking of using a powerhead to distribute the flow of water better throughout the tank. and, like i said before, i am definitely considering live rock.

how would YOU go about setting up the UV and heater if you were to abandon the canister in this situation? do you think a powerhead would be a better solution as a means for water flow?

here's some additional questions for ya...

- the pump connected to my protein skimmer resting in my trickle down does not appear to be working. i am not observing any action whatsoever. am i missing something here? shouldn't the water be pushed up more if it were working?

- my prefilter seems to be a bit loud, in addition to making the random gugling noise. what can i do to prevent this?

thanks again... i know i will have some more questions as soon as i hit the "submit reply" button, but i will go with these for now.

e

[OrionGirl]

Cycle with some raw cocktail shrimp. They will provide ample food for the bacteria, and not harm any fish. Once the tank is cycled, you can start adding fish. While the tank is cycling, I strongly recommend you research the fish you are interested in. For example, eels are not a good mix with inverts. In some cases, the invert may become a meal, in others, the eel may inadvertently knock the invert over and damage it. Not a great mix. Some eels are piscivores, meaning they will eat other fish--just a caution.

You can run the canister without any media, inline with the heater and UV. I would not use the UV, though--they kill much of the beneficial free floating organisms, and can contribute to nitrates.

[eceon]

hi oriongirl.. do you mean that i should not run the UV during the cycling phase or just in general? how many pieces of shrimp would be sufficient for the size of my tank (150g)? do you also disagree with me using media such as bio-spira to quicken the cycling? what are the potential dangers of using the "bacteria in a bottle" method?

also, i've noticed that the pre-filter action can be a bit loud. would noise be a factor in the health of any fish attained later on? does anyone have any designs or plans of a device to silence it? i just feel that the water movement is a bit much on the side of the tank where the prefilter hangs.

here are some more questions... hehe

why does my water continue to have a strong odor? i have already used dechlorinator in hopes that it would remove that smell.

what would YOU ppl reccomend for livestock in my tank? i am a beginner, however i have done a little research and i believed there were some eel that were less agressivethan others.

what are your opinons on submersible heaters and the placement of powerheads? any tips? personal experiences?

i know i am asking a lot of questions, but i am eager to learn. i hope my questions don't sound to dumb, because i know i am going to have more. ;) thanks again for taking the time... :)

e

[OrionGirl]

I would not run the UV at all. I think UV's are great for quarantine and hospital tanks, but not main tanks.

The jury is still out on marine Bio-Spira. I don't know of any other product that has any benefits. None of these products are a replacement for testing, and since SW in such an investment, trying to speed things up with a bottled product and potentially killing live stock is a risk I'd rather not take. The risks are: the tank doesn't actually cycle, and your new specimens are injured or killed by the resulting ammonia/nitrite spike.

The ocean is not a quiet place--the noise won't bother your fish. Ditto for water movement. 6-8 shrimp should be adequate for your tank.

I'm not sure what odor you're talking about? Cycling tanks will have a noticable odor of decomposition, but a healthy tank will just have a faint, slightly green, earthy smell. If it smells of chlorine, a) make sure you do not have chloramines and b) make sure your treatment method was adequate for the volume of water.

In a 150 FOWLR I would go with a volitan lion, a snowflake eel, and an angel--not sure what type. I did not mean to imply that you shouldn't get an eel, just that you need to research it. Many eels will turn hermit crabs and other crustaceans into canapes.

My submersible heater is in the sump. Where ever you put it, make sure you can get to it easily, and can see it to make sure it's working without tearing anything apart.

Powerheads--I like lots of current. I'm in favor of having one powerhead for every 30 gallons--so you'll want to have 4-6 of them. Place them so there are not any stagnant areas--which will depend on where and how much rock you have. Don't feel that once you put a powerhead in place, it's stuck there. Move them around, especially if you notice areas where algae grows.

[eceon]

orion - so no UV then.. i thought this was a necessary instrument for ckeeping the water clear. but, you seem very knowledgeable and I trust your suggestion. :)

do you think my trickle down filter is more than enough for my tank? it is afterall 200gal capable in my 150gal tank. do i need to hook up the canisters at all, or am i just wasting my time? (i dont care either way, the canisters were free)

the smell is that of chlorine, i believe. i did use proper amounts of dechlorinator, so that leaves me confused...

also, how can i tell if my protein skimmer is working in a tank with nothing but water in it? i have a feeling it's not, since i do not notice any pumping action.


as for the heater, i would like to simplify my current plumbing. and, i do have a submersible heater as well. are they all practically the same? should the one be good for my entire tank? where should it be plaed in the sump?

and livestock. i am assuming those are just a few suggestions. i can have more than that, right? hehe

thanks. you rawk

e

[OrionGirl]

UV light kills organisms that are free floating in the water. While this does include parasites and algae, it also includes lots of good things--pods, beneficial bacteria, etc. All this dead stuff then decays--and can compromise water quality. Also, since many parasites are not free-swimming, they are unaffected by the UV. So, quarantining new arrivals is better for disease prevention, and water changes and the skimmer help more in terms of water quality.

The wet-dry should be sufficient, but maybe a problem for a reef tank. If you run a pre-filter that prevents solid waste from getting stuck in the media, you can prevent a lot of problems. Otherwise, you will need to occassionally flush the media to remove trapped solids.

The skimmer--you should be able to see bubbles going through the middle, and foam at the collection area. If not, you're right, it's not working. I probably can't offer much more help--I'm not the gadget guru.

There are lots of types of heaters. How they run is similar for all of them, and you'll want 3-5 watts per gallon in most cases. A reliable brand name, like the Ebo Jagers, or the ProHeats, is your best bet. I like the submersibles in the sump--YMMV.

I wouldn't add more than the 3 I mentioned, no. If you go with smaller fish, you could have more, but SW tanks have lower carrying capacity than FW tanks. You could also go with this tocking list: a snowflake eel, a dwarf lion fish, a larger dwarf angel like a bicolor, and a pair of maroon clowns. Or, nix the lion, and add a trio of basslets and a jawhead goby. Or, the eel, a yellow tang, and a pair of clowns, along with a scooter dragonette down the line.

Lots of possibilities, but the lighter you stock, the better the water quality and the healthier the fish.

[eceon]

awesome.. i appreciate all the advice. :) i will keep you all posted on the progress of my tank, and post pics once there's something worth posting.

e

[eceon]

does anyone else agree with the UV issue discussed above? not that i dont trust yr advice, orion. i really want to simplify my plumbing to simply having my wet/dry and submersible heaters in the sump, using a few powerheads in the tank. so, before i start disassembling the UV and current external heater, i would like some more voices on this matter. thanks again, aquariacentral! :)

[hman]

Check out this thread its a plethora of info.

http://www.aquariacentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=11232