View Full Version : under gravel jet
mr.cichlid
10-10-2009, 9:34 AM
hi all,
i just came across under gravel jet system in some threads and websites...its really a very cool idea...actually i could install it in both of my tanks (FW and SW). I wanted some more ideas and reviews on this before i head that way...
also can anyone post some pics that could guide me with the installation if i decide to go that way....
ibr3ak
10-10-2009, 11:48 AM
Read here:
http://cichlid-forum.com/articles/ug_jets.php
Here's mine:
http://www.aquariacentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=195238
mr.cichlid
10-10-2009, 12:46 PM
how much do these pumps cost??? what size pump is suitable for a 120g??? pls advise?
ibr3ak
10-10-2009, 1:42 PM
I'd go by how many jets/flow is necessary, and instead of using small powerheads I'd use either 2 small pumps or 1 large one.
Check here for quietone pumps and their output:
http://www.petsolutions.com/Quiet-One-Pumps+I88350151+C49.aspx
mr.cichlid
10-10-2009, 11:32 PM
bought Rio1700 from the LFS and installed everything...with 5 outlets...seems like flow is not sufficient enough...i do see particles thrown away near the outlets but i think i need to add some more outlets to keep particles afloat and if i add more outlets flow is gonna go down at other outlets...
how much flow do you think is needed to serve the purpose of keeping the gravel clean...
Thanks!
mr.cichlid
10-11-2009, 11:14 AM
guys, could anyone advise me on flow rate for UGJ? the rio1700 has 642@0ft, 620@1ft, 531@2ft,442@3ft,352@4ft. i guess these gph values are for various heads the flow should be max when all the outlets are in the same level as the pump.
pls advise
RDTigger
10-11-2009, 11:35 AM
all kinds of physical factors affect the flow...
pics of the setup will make determining the right amount of force needed from a pump.
mr.cichlid
10-11-2009, 12:41 PM
here are some pics...
mr.cichlid
10-11-2009, 12:43 PM
i think replacing the elbow with 45degree angle connection at the pump wud help increase flow..what do u think? or should i consider getting another pump???
i always have trouble getting waste from pleco to float...
mr.cichlid
10-11-2009, 1:15 PM
i wanna see if it possible to take out my koralia power head#3 from the tank so i can use it in my SW tank if the flow from the UGJ is good enough to keep water circulating and at the same time lifting off the waste from gravel...
ibr3ak
10-11-2009, 2:55 PM
I would either try to move the pump to the middle, and I'd definitely close the loop as you'll be reducing the flow to the jets on the other side of the pump when having it open, as well as eliminate the 90 elbow from pump to the plumbing and just set the pump upside down:
ibr3ak
10-11-2009, 2:56 PM
Or close the loop and install a second pump on the other side to kick up the flow more:
mr.cichlid
10-11-2009, 3:00 PM
i will work on it rite now...will keep ya posted...figured this is the right time to install egg crate on the bottom...also think about changing the substrate to silica sand that home depot sells...what do u say????
thanks for all the guidance my friends...
mr.cichlid
10-11-2009, 3:02 PM
seems like we both posted almost the same time :) ...i will try the first method without buying the second pump and see if it works...if it doesn't i will buy another pump...
mr.cichlid
10-11-2009, 9:43 PM
alrite!!! here r the latest pics...installed egg crates, changed the substrate, and installed UGJ (7 outlets, layout pic attached)...
the flow is good...but having hard time figuring out how to get all the waste to float up...currently waste is settling down in spots where there is low flow...so running koralia 3 powerhead too...my pleco is giving me a hard time...waste allover...
am thinking about increasing the depth of substrate so all the outlets are totally inside...
guys who have UGF: please let me know how you are able to get all the waste to float???
i am also looking for a used canister filter...will add second one if i find a nice deal...
comments please :cool:
Pittbull
10-11-2009, 11:44 PM
Any one up for some ping pong.. :evil_lol:
mr.cichlid
10-12-2009, 12:30 AM
:) may be billiards...
Rbishop
10-12-2009, 4:28 AM
Nice looking tank.
mr.cichlid
10-12-2009, 11:43 AM
thanks!
already poop allover the sand...the outlets just push the poop out of their way...pls advice
mr.cichlid
10-12-2009, 7:05 PM
guys...are you using any kind of filter media around the pump inlet for filtration??? i think if we use filter media in the pump and direct outlets to the pump that would help...
also, how do we deal with poop settling near rocks or in caves???
Rbishop
10-12-2009, 7:32 PM
rearrange the decor so the jet flow directs it towards a filter suction..?
mr.cichlid
10-13-2009, 11:53 AM
guys i bought mag model 7 - 700gph pump and installed everything. the flow is good i think...but really need to get all the outlets positioned properly...i will post the new layout pic soon...i tried to position the mag pump in an inverted position so i dont have to use any pipes for the connection but when i do that it is producing lot of noise...is this normal??? currently i just placed it in its standard position and connected it using pipes...no noise at all...do you think there is some problem with the pump???
mr.cichlid
10-13-2009, 12:00 PM
also i will give my pleco to LFS and see if they can trade him for a cichlid or two...and i am thinking about trading off or donate misc peacocks/haps (3 in #)...
is there any other pleco type algae eating fish that doesn't poop as much as mine...
ibr3ak
10-13-2009, 12:31 PM
Yeah I would just redirect the jets where most of your deadspots are, that's how I made mine, as I pretty much knew beforehand where all the poop was collecting, directing the flow to the back of the tank behind the rock work, the majority of the caves, as well as the back corners, blowing the poop to the front of the tank, where one of the outtakes (sweeping from one side of the back corner to the other side and the front corner) and the spraybar (usually set at 45 degrees, blowing to the bottom front of the tank) kick it up and keep it suspended until it is finally caught by the intakes.
As far as I know, most if not all plecos are poop producing factories, so I guess you're either stuck with one and can successfully filter the crap out or just don't keep one at all.
mr.cichlid
10-13-2009, 12:42 PM
ibr3ak, that is exactly what i am trying to accomplish...i have all the waste pushed to the back and to the right side then lifting the waste via 3 outlets in back-right corner...currently i only have one canister running in the back-right corner...
i am running short on sand to fill to the level where it covers all the outlets with only little bit of the outlet exposed...i will be adding more sand today...hopefully i can rescape and direct outlets right..will keep ya posted...
i cant handle the pleco i have so i will be donating or trading him...
mr.cichlid
10-13-2009, 1:22 PM
ibr3ak, could you share some of you tank pics that illustrate the UGJ system? Thanks!
ibr3ak
10-13-2009, 1:55 PM
The pics from the link I posted earlier are the only ones of the ugj I have, I'll draw up a diagram in a min and post it.
mr.cichlid
10-13-2009, 2:05 PM
here is my current layout...
down: outlet directed downward to push the waste
up: outlet directed to lift the waste
i am actually thinking to add another outlet on the middle pipe facing to the right...is it recommended? also, is MAG model 7 with 700gph and RIO 1700 with 692 gph enough for a 125 g tank with all the outlets i have??? i think the next model (model 9.5 with 950 gph) in the MAG is only little over model 7 in pricing.
mr.cichlid
10-13-2009, 2:10 PM
here is the one with the current rockscape...
ibr3ak
10-13-2009, 2:15 PM
I don't think there's any set way of doing this, whatever you feel works is what you should do, so if you feel like it's gonna improve if you add another jet in the middle, go for it, it's all just trial and error. Which is why I think you should try different pump setups and see what works, as there are different variables that'll change the flow (number of jets, fitting types, etc..). I've tested mine in a tub a few times, just to adjust the jets and flow, before making everything final.
Here's what mine looks like:
mr.cichlid
10-13-2009, 2:17 PM
what kind of filtratio do you use???
ibr3ak
10-13-2009, 2:25 PM
2 fluval 404's.
mr.cichlid
10-13-2009, 2:31 PM
that a good amount of filtration...probably instead of upgrading the pump i should just add another canister...
ibr3ak
10-13-2009, 2:36 PM
Yeah having 2 intakes on either side really does help.
mr.cichlid
10-13-2009, 2:43 PM
hmmm...searching for some used filters...hopefully i find one...new ones cost too much
mr.cichlid
10-13-2009, 11:23 PM
alrite...updates:
pics attached....added some new sand today so water is still not clear...
final layout of the outlets...
rescaped tank...:dance:
what do you think??? :feedback:
mr.cichlid
10-19-2009, 12:31 PM
alrite!!! the eureka reds spawned today...this is her second one...first ones didn't make it...i will get her our into her own tank this time after a couple of weeks...
Pittbull
10-20-2009, 12:41 AM
wow make sure you really get in there and disturb that sand when you water clean aye thats a lot of sand..
Istanbul_Kop
10-20-2009, 4:49 AM
I used Uunder Gravel Jets too.
When I did my rescape, I put all my rocks on eggcrate with legs. ie all the rocks are raised off the bottom so there is a load of flow going beneath them. Basically, everything falls through the rocks to the sand, then the UGJ blows them into my filter. It's great, I love UGJ systems, they are worth doing for sure.
Your tank looks amazing, apart from the turtles. The jets looks superb, I only went for less in my tank as I wanted them to be more powerful.
This is it with all the front rock stripped away:
http://i27.tinypic.com/an0cvn.jpg
http://i25.tinypic.com/2r6ipgp.jpg
http://i29.tinypic.com/2wdshs0.jpg
Video of jets during a rescape: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F8ltEHFalWQ
Pittbull
10-20-2009, 4:30 PM
That tank is just cool Kop..
mr.cichlid
10-21-2009, 2:33 AM
pitt, i had to add a lot of sand to cover the piping underneath...good thing about sand the waste can't go under...jets r doing good job...what is the reason behind disturbing the sand???
kop, ur rockwork looks stunning and great job on the UGJ...
Istanbul_Kop
10-21-2009, 7:13 AM
Cheers.
If you sand bed is too deep you can get a build up of anaerobic bacteria which will eventually release a gas that is harmful to your fish. It can come out when you disturb the sand after you have left it for a while or it can even bubble out on its own. It happens where there is no oxygen in compacted, deep sand beds.
Someone who knows better will be able to tell you more (or correct me, haha). Either way, deep sand can be tricky, and it is better going for a lesser depth.
But there lies the problem, in that the one bad thing with these UGJs in a Malawi tank - ENDLESS DIGGING exposing the jets.
ps. Malaysian Trumpet Snails do a fine job of sifting through deeper sand. They are cheap, breed like rabbits, only come out at night and won't be touched by the fish.
mr.cichlid
10-21-2009, 11:08 AM
kop, thanks for the info...i will checkout our lfs to see if they got any Malaysian Trumpet Snails...
mr.cichlid
10-23-2009, 4:58 PM
hey guys, i am having trouble keeping temp around 80...currently the temp in the tank is around 84...i am running two water pumps, two 54w t5ho lights, and a canister filter...
how can i get the temp down??? :1zhelp:
mr.cichlid
10-23-2009, 5:10 PM
kop, how r u able to place rocks that tall??? did u use any glue?? are those rocks heavy?? and final question: are those real plans??? :)
hey guys, i am having trouble keeping temp around 80...currently the temp in the tank is around 84...i am running two water pumps, two 54w t5ho lights, and a canister filter...
how can i get the temp down??? :1zhelp:
That's a common problem here in Puerto Rico. From June to October, water temp can reach 87; so don't worry too much. What I do during these months is to substitute the hood for a piece of egg crate and then I put a fan to blow from above, the whole tank area.
mr.cichlid
10-23-2009, 5:22 PM
hey guys, just got this thought...do you think poking in a small hole (very very tiny hole) in the piping at locations where sand bed is deep could help solve the anaerobic bacteria issue? thoughts???
mr.cichlid
10-23-2009, 9:14 PM
can any anyone help on the temperature issue???
Thanks!
mr.cichlid
10-24-2009, 10:02 AM
efors, i missed your post...sorry about that...thanks that helps...i was so worried...but the amazing thing is eureka reds and yellow labs spawned...
efors, i missed your post...sorry about that...thanks that helps...i was so worried...but the amazing thing is eureka reds and yellow labs spawned...
No problem, my friend! And congrats for those spawns.
mr.cichlid
10-24-2009, 11:17 PM
thanks....i hope the eureka red is successful this time...
Istanbul_Kop
10-27-2009, 5:04 AM
kop, how r u able to place rocks that tall??? did u use any glue?? are those rocks heavy?? and final question: are those real plans??? :)
It's ocean/reef/dead coral rock so it all locks together as it is has nice, unusual, jagged shapes. Very secure. Plants are real - Java fern and some type of sword (the only two ever to survive with my Cichlids). The Java fern is superb in this stype of setup as it does not have to be planted, and simply latches on to the rocks after a while.
mr.cichlid
10-28-2009, 12:50 PM
hey guys, just got this thought...do you think poking in a small hole (very very tiny hole) in the piping at locations where sand bed is deep could help solve the anaerobic bacteria issue? thoughts???
guys pls share your thoughts on this one???
mr.cichlid
10-28-2009, 12:55 PM
Cheers.
If you sand bed is too deep you can get a build up of anaerobic bacteria which will eventually release a gas that is harmful to your fish. It can come out when you disturb the sand after you have left it for a while or it can even bubble out on its own. It happens where there is no oxygen in compacted, deep sand beds.
Someone who knows better will be able to tell you more (or correct me, haha). Either way, deep sand can be tricky, and it is better going for a lesser depth.
But there lies the problem, in that the one bad thing with these UGJs in a Malawi tank - ENDLESS DIGGING exposing the jets.
ps. Malaysian Trumpet Snails do a fine job of sifting through deeper sand. They are cheap, breed like rabbits, only come out at night and won't be touched by the fish.
i just read some articles about malaysian trumpet snails...they are cool..but hopefully their population remains in control...how many do you think should i add in first??? its a 120g.
mr.cichlid
10-29-2009, 1:03 PM
hey i went to the LFS yesterday...the guy told me that these snails reproduce at a very fast rate...so now i am back to the starting point...do you think it would be better off to do regular vaccum and not add these snails to the tank??? pls advice
ibr3ak
10-29-2009, 2:33 PM
I've never had any trumpet snails personally, but from what I've gathered, if you don't overfeed, their population will remain in control, also I hear cichlids like eating the young (or freshly hatched) snails if they can find them.
mr.cichlid
10-29-2009, 2:45 PM
hmmm...but once we add them there is no way to get rid of 'em as i understand...cause they cud be anywhere hiding in the sand...
one time i saw petsmart guys put gold fish in one of their tanks to control snails population...do you know of any fish that can go live with cichlds and at the same time control population of the snails...and that don't grow huge (max like 4-6inches)... :)
ibr3ak
10-29-2009, 6:41 PM
I would imagine loaches, but as I've never kept them I'm not sure which won't be on mbuna's target list.