Would like to bounce my plan by ya

[AthagaMor]

Hi! Just some quick stuff about me... I've had several smaller 10-15g community tanks in the past with much success - mostly with live bearers (swords, platies, gupps, etc.) and cory cats - and would like to step up to a more intermediate/larger tank... still a community tank though.

What I have:
-38g regular tank (sorry no exact demensions. It's not a tall or extra long one though)
-appropriate power filter, heater
-coarse gravel (natural w/ a bit of white mixed for flavor)
-a large piece of walabi wood and a chunk of grapevine
-several large pieces of granite (various tones: red, dark, greenish)
-plants: 4 green & 4 red crypt, 1 wystiria, (2 more plants, names escape me (hydro or something??? - taller one - and a small mat of grass (shorter))
-3.5-4" spotted raphael/talking catfish
-1 cute bumblebee goby (may become a snack for the catfish from what I've been reading - I can move him if need be)
-catfish (carnvirous) tablets for the spotted cat - doesn't seem to be eating them
-flakes & dried shrimp for the goby - doesn't seem to be eating them
-fertilizer tablets for plants, as well as a liquid iron slurry that gets added once a month.
-full hood with a crappy 20w bulb in it (I can get a better bulb, but can't swing a dual-bulb hood atm... will try to fix this asap).
-no experience with live food

The few fish have been in there about a week. The plants/wood were added last night.

...I'm expected some comments/suggestions about the above as I know it's not quite perfect.

Okay, so here's what I've think for fish additions. (I'm still waiting for my tank to finish cycling - excepting it done in about 2-2.5 weeks). I'd like to remedy the above, if needed, and have it under control for the fish below.

---A small school of brightly colored angelfish (likely the yellow/golden ones) 6-8 would be great, not sure if I'm going to be pushing the # of fish limit (guessing so).
---A trio (1m/2f) of bright blue gouramis or dwarf gouramis
---Do I need a scavenger? What type?
---I'm also wondering if I can squeak in a pair of Blue Eye Cichlids??? (What is the coloration on these? I've been looking at them all morning and I've seen blue ones, red ones, and some very pale ones. If I can get the blue ones, which look like the solid blue and barred African cichlids, that would be great! But I don't know how well the other colorations fit the tank-hopes I mention in the paragraph after the next.)

I know the angels and the blue eyes would eventually out grow the tank, but I've been told that most pet stores will happily buy them from you (in good health). I also plan to buy all my fish realtively small, medium-size at largest.

I'm not looking at try to breed to maintain this hobby tank, but I wouldn't mind letting breeding taking its natural course. I'm shooting for an extremely lush scape, with some wood and rock, and would like some very bright (primary or secondary color) fish around to really make the tank pop.

So I'm looking for some advice, "OMG, don't do that!!!"s, and other helpful comments.

Thanks in advance!

Alex

[ryan]

I dont know much about plants, but that doesnt seem like much light....but then again i dont know much about plants.

make sure the goby has plenty of caves and such to hide in and he should be alright. it will help his survival chances that he will be established in the tank before any new commers (cichlids). I'd be more worried about them eating him than the other cat. As for feeding the raphael will eat anything, but from what i have heard bumblebee gobys almost solely eat live food. I have however never had them so i cant be sure of this.

Angels get large enough that 6-8 would not work in that tank. They generally dont seem to need quite as much room as other cichlids, but they do have some of the inherent cichlid aggresion and territorial tendencies. I would try three, its a lot easier to get more later than to get rid of fish you already have. Plus, so long as you dont get a very protective pair, three may work long term.

Assuming you are talking about the blue eyed cichlid in the aquaria central database I would use caution. first of all the WILL dig up plants, and while they may be peaceful for cichlids they will still be territorial with each other and will, in my opinion terrorize the angels.

Im not sure if you meant that you wanted african cichlids or not. So i'll just say this. They will not work in that tank. They need extremely hard high pH water, will kill most anything else you put them with, and generally speaking, are too large to have the nessesary number of them needed to maintain a "peaceful" tank.

If it were my tank I would get a few interesting bottom feeders (corys or small loaches), an interesing looking dwarf pleco (there are tons to choose from), a small school of rummy nose or other colorful tetra, the two or three angels, and one or two colorful oddballs, such as a dwarf gourami/blue gourami and a blue ram.

Having said this I must confess I stock my tanks heavily, and as a result I heavily filtrate. You may need to up your filtration depending on what you decide. Keep in mind that a filter that says "up to twenty gallons" may only be sufficient for a well stocked ten gallon tank.

my 55 gallon tank has two penguin 330's and a HOT magnum, which is a total of 925 "Rated" gph. I also do large weekely water changes. just an example. But it is stocked with four dwarf plecos (all full grown), two yoyo loaches(full grown), two lace cats (full grown), a green severum(6in), a salvini(3in), a breeding pair of firemouths (full grown) three silver dollars (3in) and 10-15 salvini fry from.5-1 inch.

which brings my to another point. Some may disagree with me here, but your chances of keeping aggression down in a heavily stocked tank are best if you buy all the fish young, and let them grow to maturity together. You may still have to weed out a few bad arses; in my case it was a male salvini, and in time it may be the other salvini, or the severum, but if you plan well in the beginning it is possible to have a peaceful tank.

Good luck :cool:

ryan

[~*LuvMyKribs*~]

Of course I would suggest you get some kribs (kribensis or pelvachromis pulcher). They are wonderful cichlids that can get along with angels in a 38 gal, as long as the kribs have a little cave to spawn in and lots of territory markers.

I would say 3 angels max, because you don't want to start your tank with the idea in your head that you are going to just get rid of most of your fish when they get too big. Its mean to the fish and they are hard to part with. :sad

Lets see. The crypts are low light plants so the lighting you have now should be ok. I would upgrade later though.

There are lots of routes to go for scavengers. I would suggest some cory cats and ottos for the algae(which you wont have any yet but it will come).

Some tetras or danios or rasboras as 'dither' fish would be nice, as well as some nice centerpiece fish. Angels would serve as this. You can try rams suchs as blue or gold german, bolivian rams. My angel and bolivian ram fight a lot so i don't know how a few of them would get along. Gouramies are nice. I never keep them though.

Thats my 2 cents, hope it helps. Again, get some kribs! :D

[AthagaMor]

Much thanks!

I'm pretty unfamiliar with some of the fish Luv. mentioned, but I'm confident I can find them and dig up some info on them.

I'll drop the angels down to three when I get them.

I have NO idea what a 'dither fish' is... but I do know what danios and tetras are.

ryan, I'll watched the filtration and get something extra if needed.

also, I added a 'stress coat' when I added the forementioned fish. I noticed, when I got home about an hour ago, that there was a thin mucus-y, almost clear film that had collected on ONLY the lightest part of my grapevine chunk/branch... is that from the stress coat, the wood, or from something else??? It came off extremely easy and I cleaned it up already, but I don't recall ever seeing anything quite like it before.

[~*LuvMyKribs*~]

The white stuff could be many things. I notice it when I add cycle or other stress coats to my tanks, and it usually goes away. So thats probebly what it is.
It also could be a form of fungus. See this thread for some more info:

http://www.aquariacentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=20803

Dither fish are fish that distract agressive terretorial fish (such as angels or other cichlids) from harassing just one fish. Usually fast moving and schooling fish.

My avatar (picture under my name) is of a male kribensis. These are one of the fish i suggested, and as you can see they are very pretty. Take a look at the aquaria central freshwater fish database and scan around for fish that catch your attention.

:)

[AthagaMor]

LuvMyKribs, Thank you for the help. I'll go check out that thread.

I just read an article a bit ago and it was saying that kribs can be slightly aggressive too (being a cichlid I guess that isn't unusual...) I'm just curious if kirbs and angels would get along. I'd think (and I'm purely guessing) that angels' big fins are like carrying big, waving "bite me" signs/flags.

Admittedly, I DO love the color in the kribs! So I'm very interested in them. They sound like a nice fun fish and one that can be bred easily if you are trying.

I originally wanted to do an African cichlid tank (I'm not familiar with species names atm, but I was going to get a small assortment of the "assorted African cichlids" that seem to be at every pet store these days. After doing a bit of reading I found out that you can't really put anything else in with them. Also, those types of cichlids tend to be in unplanted tanks. So I'm trying to get away from the livebearers, have an extremely brightly colored community tank, and have lots of plants.

What I'm finding is there's a big step in the aquarium hobby (as far as knowledge and involvement) after you decide to go pass guppies, platies, and a few swords.

Thanks again! I'll be sure to ask questions as I get better at this.

Alex

[PumaWard]

My pair of kribs leave my angels well enough alone, though this is the first time that I have ever head kribs so I can't say that this is 'normail' behavior. Even when my kribs layed eggs, the angels were the only fish that the didn't nip at. The angels don't bother the kribs either.

[~*LuvMyKribs*~]

Eeee! Everytime someone posts about setting up a new tank I WANT TO TOOO!!!
:OT:
Sorry you are making me jealous hehehe.


Oh and one more thing- you can only keep one male and one female krib. You may want to try to keep two male and two females, but i think its more challenging. As with many fish, once a pair forms they can be overly agressive towards others of the same species. You may need to do some exchanging if you end up with 2 males or 2 females. :D

[AthagaMor]

Nice.

A pair of kribs sounds good.

I also did some reading before going to bed last night about those Rams. I've some good sites bookmarked on the blue rams so I'll dig into them a bit more today.

Should I do two angels or three??? I've read they pair off... so that would leave one lonely....? Is it possible to sex them early so i can get a m&f or is it kind of "luck of the draw?"