Mortality rate?

[onebyone]

I don't know if this is an answerable question, but I wonder if anyone can tell me their experience. I was wondering what your success rate is with adding neons/cardinals. I know it mostly depends on your water parameters and the quality of the stock, but I'd love to have some sort of rough estimate.

My 10 hex finally cycled after about 7 weeks. I did a big water change, gave it a few days, and still observed 0ppm ammonia, 0ppm nitrite, and 10-15 nitrate (my plants are very hungry). My pH is around 6.5, filtered with peat. I have an air stone running to make sure the water is well oxygenated.

Yesterday I added my first fish. The LFS had quality looking cardinals so I thought I would chance it with them. Both neons and cardinals were schooling and well colored in the tanks. I bought 5 neons and 5 cardinals, acclimating them slowly. I added about 1/3 a cup of water every 5-10 minutes for 45 minutes and then fished them out of the bags and released them.

Overnight, one cardinal (they are juvenile and fairly small) got stuck to the filter intake. I rescued him, but he still died about 30 minutes later. I adjusted the strength of the filter to prevent this from happening again. Several hours later, I had another death, a neon this time. I'm curious because my parameters are still normal, and they were all eating well when I fed them (only a little) this morning. I know people have trouble sometimes with these particular fish but I just want to know that I'm not doing anything wrong. None seem to have any abrasions or discolorations, except for one cardinal that had a missing tail when I purchased him (surprisingly he is doing quite well).

Thanks in advance!

[froglover007]

I believe that cardinals and neons will school together but this is an anomily (not sure how to spell that) and it is best to stick to one species. it sounds like your stock is not that great. I have 8 neons that I rescued which are currently in my five gallon (will be moving them) and they are doing just fine. No water problems and the tank is very clean all the time.

[froglover007]

Oh yes, if you ever get a fish without a tail you should probably return it. Additionally, it is fairly common for very small fish to get sucked onto powerful filter intakes.

[onebyone]

My mistake, I meant to say that the neons and cardinals were schooling with their own species in separate tanks at the LFS, looking and behaving healthily. They schooled together in the very beginning in my tank and again when I went to remove the dead fish but not so much when they are left alone. I didn't realize that it was not optimal to get both- hopefully that won't affect them too much. :(

The only problem is that the fish with no tail was 2.99 and the amount of gas it would take to go back to the not so local LFS is probably more than 2.99. If I get more deaths I suppose I should go to another fish store in the future? I'm surprised though, because this is the best stock I've seen so far from any store in the area (I visited 4 before making a purchase).

[tanker]

Not much room to school in a 10Hex. Even if they will not school--they not far apart.

My Neons and Cardinals school together in my 100.


Both Cardinals and Neons are known to have a "higher" mortality rate when first put into tank===but again this depends on stock too. I have had both kinds live for many years, but have had time when they are difficult to keep alive after intro to tank.

[onebyone]

I'm jealous, I'd love to see your big school in the 100gal. :) You're right, you can't see all that much schooling behavior because of the tank's size. I'm hoping that the 2 poor fishies died from the initial shock of the move, and hopefully the others will make it.

I had forgotten how much I like watching fish. One of the tiny cardinals is hilarious - he thinks he's the boss and has staked out a "corner" (if you can call them that in a hex) and swims at the bigger neons if they come too close. I guess he's a loner!

[Reframer]

You would probably do better if you drip acclimate instead. but neons are not that robust. They are quite active though and I'm afraid a 10 hex doesn't give them much swimming room.

[onebyone]

Oh I'd never thought of using the drip method- I will keep that in mind next time. I lost the missing tail cardinal last night, which isn't surprising. We were rooting for him. The rest though are active and eating well.

[KarlTh]

Mind you, if the trip from the shop is long the drip method can do more harm than good. The time it's usually done over is nothing like enough for a fish to adapt to different TDS (total dissolved solids) anyway - IMO it's overrated.

IME, the cause of "small fish dieoff" is nitrate. Levels which are harmless to established fish I have found are associated with this sort of 10-30% attrition rate. In other cases, not specifically related to small fish, early dieoff is related to osmotic shock; it can take several hours for a fish to acclimate to big differences in TDS, although pH changes are easily accommodated and nothing like as dangerous as often thought.

[onebyone]

My nitrates are considerably low, so I'm fairly sure that wasn't the cause of the deaths in this case. In my understanding, my nitrates are surprisingly low for an established tank (10-15ppm) because my plants take care of most of them. I'm (obviously!) no expert, but TDS adaptation problems make sense. The water in my area is extremely hard from the tap: 300+ppm GH, pH 8, high KH. I've taken various procedures to soften the water and it's at probably 100-150 now, with pH around 6.5. I think my overzealous attempt to give them a better habitat may have led to the initial fish deaths, if the water at my semi-LFS is anything like the tap water here. The remaining fish now are highly active though and I'm hoping that the softened water will at least allow them to thrive if they do survive the initial shock.

[StripesAndFins]

ive never kept neons, but i have cardinals and one is not very from the rest, if away at all. good luck

[KarlTh]

My nitrates are considerably low, so I'm fairly sure that wasn't the cause of the deaths in this case. In my understanding, my nitrates are surprisingly low for an established tank (10-15ppm) because my plants take care of most of them. I'm (obviously!) no expert, but TDS adaptation problems make sense. The water in my area is extremely hard from the tap: 300+ppm GH, pH 8, high KH. I've taken various procedures to soften the water and it's at probably 100-150 now, with pH around 6.5. I think my overzealous attempt to give them a better habitat may have led to the initial fish deaths, if the water at my semi-LFS is anything like the tap water here. The remaining fish now are highly active though and I'm hoping that the softened water will at least allow them to thrive if they do survive the initial shock.

How have you softened the water? If it's ion exchange, then you've made the water even higher in TDS.

[onebyone]

No, I heard bad things about that. I just mix tap with distilled water at about a 50-50 ratio to cut down on the GH, pH, and KH. The levels are still a bit high, but if I add more distilled water than that the KH gets too low, so I use a small amount of peat moss in a stocking in the filter too. I switch the peat maybe every 1.5-2 weeks. As you can see I had a lot of fun with this while cycling.... Thankfully it's a small tank so the distilled water doesn't get too expensive.

The remaining 7 are going strong still. I have hope for them! :)

[tanker]

I'm jealous, I'd love to see your big school in the 100gal.


Here. Old pic, but same idea.

[bushwhacker]

i want that pile a crypts in the center of that tank jess.... lol

[petluvr]

I ordered 30 neons from liveaquaria about a year ago and they have slowly died off to about 18. They IMO just aren't hardy fish.

[robertscott]

My experiance is about the same......had 6, lost three. Replaced with five more. All died but the initial three. After 3 months, the 3 are still kicking.

[onebyone]

Here. Old pic, but same idea.

Awesome tank! :)

So far so good and my remaining 7 are still alive and doing great. That's horrible to hear about so many deaths... I guess they really are extra sensitive.

I had one more question- I've been feeding them a very small amount twice a day (the eat it all in about 1 minute) so I can make sure they are all eating and looking healthy. Is this overfeeding?