acclimation drip method table?

[CWO4GUNNER]

Anybody know or use a specific formula or set of for tables for PH acclimation using the drip method over a given time period for a specific amount of water? This of course for new fish coming to a home tank or QT tank where the PH is significantly different from the bag or origination tank?

Im asking becasue I'm tired of guessing and getting different numbers depending on who you talk to can be anywhere from 1 to 5 hours using the drip method. Their has got to be a table somebody has come up with right?

[Chrisinator]

What I do is I float the bag first, while getting everything read for abotu 15 minutes. Then, I put the fish in a container. I use one of those critter keepers so I can look in and watch them while they're acclimating. I use one of those things for airline tubings which control how much air goes out and I use that to put the amount of drips per second. I usually do this for about an hour. But most of the fish I have have the same range of pH or will be fine in neutral water.

If it's going from like a 7.4 to a 6.2, then you should consider slowing down the flow more and doing the acclimation for 2-3 hours. Unless your keeping some sensitive fish, I'd just do it for an hour. You can always extend it if your not feeling comptable. Also, checking the water would help while acclimating.

[CWO4GUNNER]

Appreciate the reply. I already have the equipment and been involved in trying various drip acclimation methods. but what I'm looking for are documented formulated procedures. So Im still looking.

In my search I found some very surprising information from research groups that work for the aquatic pet industry in methods of successfully shipping ornamental fish from suppliers to retailers and maintain a low loss of product (fish) due to stress related death. What I found out completely surprised me but made perfect sense. Now suddenly for me a QT tank has taken on a much more important aspect then just to QT a new fish becasue it may or may not have disease that can or cannot be detected right away. The need for a QT with respect to acclimation is suddenly so clear and makes perfect sense IMO.

The recommendations for low mortality from the supplier to shipper had to do allot with method of shipping, types of gas exchange bags used, temperature control in packing and antibiotics and chemicals needed in the bag to help the fish survive the journey by fending off both toxins and infections. all of which was not as important to me as a customer as the recommendations and methods given to retailers once the fish arrive. Something that can also apply to the buyer when you get your fish home or receive them by mail.

The recommendations for retailers had allot to do with what NOT to do that has been shown through research to be detrimental to new fish.

Never float a fish bag as the increase in temperature change causes both loss of oxygen and increase in NH3 toxicity. and never allow any part of the bag, bag water, and especially the outside of the bag to contact a community tank as studies have found as much if not more harmful contaminants and pathogens on the outside.

Time is of the essence and no time should be wasted with drip acclimation or floating both of which do more harm then good. Drip acclimation is a very poor method of acclimating fish to PH and temperature differences between the bag water and tank water and only further increases their stress unless done over the span of days (5) rather then hours.

The new fish need to immediately be netted from the bag and placed inside a quarantined aquatic environment that both matched temperature and PH of the bag water for the best possible chance of survival and then slowly over a period of 5 days matching both temperature and PH to community tank parameters.

New bagged fish should be fed immediately after being placed in the QT tanks which matches both PH and temperature of the bag water.

Anyway I'm going to try these recommended solutions for retailers by this research group that develop solutions to these problems for businesses, and organizations in the aquatic pet trade around the world.

[Pearl]

In my opinion, there is no rule when it comes to introducing critters into a new habitat, be they goats, dogs, cats or fish. The only thing any of us can do is observe how the critters are reacting, then do what we can to ease their stress.

[jbradt]

In my opinion, there is no rule when it comes to introducing critters into a new habitat, be they goats, dogs, cats or fish. The only thing any of us can do is observe how the critters are reacting, then do what we can to ease their stress.

Agreed. I think it depends a lot upon the type of fish and ammount of variation from bag water to tank water. I've never drip acclamated (I float the bag and add tank water to it slowly over about 1.5 hours), and have never lost a fish due to poor acclimation. I think if you find a method that works for you and your fish, that's the rule.

... except ottos, but I don't count them becuase they are reputedly so fragile anyway.

[CWO4GUNNER]

Well I don't think we are in disagreement as I wouldn't be researching this if I didn't have the need and since Im having limited success with drip acclimation loosing 1 out of 4 fish to shock. Probubly becasue most of the LFS around here allow their nitrate to run as high as 80 and as a result runs PH levels as low as 6.4.

My tanks are always clean and low in nitrates so they run at a constant 8-8.3 PH which is tap, that is a huge difference almost 2 points in acclimation needed.

So I need a better method then drip alone and I think the method mentioned in Aqua Science Research Group is just what might give me better success. And like you said I should find out and know becasue I'm the one having to deal with such hard and high PH water. For you this all might seem moot but for me its a real not speculated concern.

So the findings on this method are not wrong as you allude, just provide less risk and more effective method for those that need it and cannot afford to cut corners.:D

[Rbishop]

I wouldn't think pH would be the issue..that is a relatively short (minutes) acclimation time. The real issue would be GH/KH, which can take hours.

[SubRosa]

Tropical fish are very tolerant of rapid changes in pH, GH and KH as long as the changes are in the right direction. Otherwise they'd all die when the rainy season came along.

[CWO4GUNNER]

Well no matter which way the direction or whether it is GH/KH vs PH, a debate that runs in all directions with hobbiest depending on who you speak with, this method by ARG laboratory researchers deserves a chance and I will try it with my next fish buy.

Im going to call it the Match & Dunk method where I spend 30 minutes preparing a 2.5 gallon QT tank and match all the 3 parameters from bag reading PH, Temp, and TDS. TDS should also be easy by using a combination of RO and tap water and TDS incorporates the more important aspect of GH/KH.

Ill let you all know how it goes.

[fishorama]

I use a TDS meter since my water is fairly low in KH, GH, & tds. I don't worry much about pH. I adjust the quarantine tank to the new fish's water as much as possible & drip acclimate for the difference. Then over several weeks I gradually lower tds through small water changes.

Some places use salt or naturally hard water & can have very high tds. That can lead to osmotic shock (often called pH shock but it's not really). It's much harder on fish to go from high to low tds than low to high but either can cause shock.

I bought a HM TDS3 on ebay for under $20 shipped.

[SubRosa]

Rapidly lowering TDS and temp is what stimulates many tropicals to spawn.

[rocker92]

i have a simple rule of thumb, the more expensive the fish, the longer the acclamation time..... lol

[fishorama]

Rapidly lowering TDS and temp is what stimulates many tropicals to spawn.

Most new fish are too stressed to be in the breeding mood. Besides, the rains that can trigger breeding are nature's drip acclimation ;)

[SubRosa]

Ever seen when the rainy season moves in to a tropical zone? It's akin to us drip acclimating with a full on garden hose.

[CWO4GUNNER]

Well in the interim of my next expensive fish (anything over $5), I have been experimenting with comet feeders and think I found a method that works very well. Perhaps this is something you are already doing but no one mentioned the details when I asked and it was what I was looking for, a specific measured rule that can be followed.

It does seem that PH is the predominant factor here and affects the new fish proportional to the degree of difference between the bag PH and new tank PH. Also another factor was the difference in temperature after being drip acclimated which need to be equalized since a bucket can drop in temp even with a drip from the new tank. OK here it is in a simple rule.

Drip Bucket acclimation.
(1) Ask your LFS to place your new 1 inch fish in at least a quart size bag 75% full. Obviously the bigger the fish the bigger the bag.
(2) At home immediately get a 2.5 gallon bucket ready with an air stone/pump and air line with valve for adjustable drip. Again obviously the bigger the bag the bigger the bucket or container.
(3) Take a liquid PH test of both the bag water and new tank water and make a note of the difference. The greater the difference the longer it will take to equalize the bag water to tank PH.
(4) Empty the quart of bag water with fish gently into the 2.5 gallon bucket or larger container and start the siphon of water from the new tank to the bucket adjusting the rate of flow using the airline valve at the bucket end to a rate of no more than 4 drips per second.
(5) Take a PH test reading of the bucket every doubling of volume of water. When the PH in the bucket matches the first reading taken of the new tank water, stop the drip and immediately re-bag the fish. I started with a quart and it took 5 hours to reach 2.5 gallons becasue of the PH difference 7.4 (bag) and 8.2 (tank) PH .
(6) Float the re-bagged fish so that the temperature difference can equalize, about 15 minutes, then release or net the new fish into the new tank.

That's it, the key for me was actually knowing the difference in PH and dripping at a rate no greater then 4 drips per second until the PH equalized. The time it takes will depend on the difference in PH. The greater the difference the longer it will take. I highly recommend liquid PH testing for this.

Anyway after trying different formulas, this one worked for me and is a measured method I can remember for the future.

[Cerianthus]

Gunner,

I am glad that you pointed out the importance of accilmating in ref to pH.

Yes , fish can adapt to wider range of pH but it may be true when such takes place over long period of time (slow changes, evolution). Personally, I would stick to so called "Ideal COndition" for specific fish.

I am also glad to see someone who is trying various methods in order to improve survival rate of newly arrived fish.

What I used to do was that I made Acclimating Table(AT) higher than what most would use. 12" or higher but I devised drainage using PVC so I can control the dept of the water. Maybe you dont have to do this since most of fish are obtained locally, but when receiving and acclimating fish which may have been in the box for days, dept of acclimating table is one of critical factors.
I would always have water from bag tested and prepared table water (1") or so duplicating pH of bag water. Also make sure no Ammonia present (very important issue for transhipped fish) in the bag.
I would drip water from one end and would have drain on the opposite end so most of bag water will be washed away during accliamtion.
As far as volume of water being added to AT, I even used peristaltic pump so dosing can be automated but could achieve same using IV line (medical supply) with control valve.

Only thing I did different was I would have prepared the Reserve which would match pH of bag water. Once all the toxic waste have been washed away, would alter the water condition in reserve (very gradually) until matched the condition of that of main display tank. During these acclimation process, i would raise water dept by raising heigh of pvc drain pipe/strainer to desired level..

You method seems fine for most fish obtained locally. Only thing I would be concerend is when and if ammonia is present in lower ph of the bag water than tank's pH.
In such case, you should not use you tank water if pH is above 7.6. you should dilute/eradicate any toxic waste in the bag water using same pH water as bag water until waste is no longer registering (sometimes I even lower the pH of new water to detox some ammonia) . Then you can begin acclimating to main display. In any method, ability to drain during acclimation process is one of important factor.

For example, let's assume bag water pH is 7 and shown 1PPM Ammonia, and your tank pH is 7.6 or higher, I would not add tank water to the bag water with fish where as pH rises in the bag, ammonia becomes more toxic. Such process is exposing fish to toxic environment during acclimation process. A REASON why so many have problems with newly arrived fish. Well! one of the reasons.
One need to remove/dilute toxin in the bag during acclimationI hear lately that GBR is very hard fish to keep. RUBBISH! I would received 200 or more fish indivisually packed in nickel and dime bag with drops of water just enough to keep them moist, and kept in that conditions for days. No problem keeping them alive when properly acclimated.
GBR was easier and sturdier than other common rams. No problem breeding locally either. Had so many hobbyists breeding and raising their offsprings. I believe in proper acclimations and Ideal Conditions. This is the KEY!, IMO.
I could walk over to my lfs today where they receive 100 or more GBR at a time. I sometimes will stand there and pick out many mated pairs for someone who just walked in. Sometimes I would strike up a conversation in front of GBR tank and assist in picking out mated pairs.
I wish more hobbyists understands the imporance of proper acclimation and ideal condiions.

Just a thought to share!

[CWO4GUNNER]

Wow that's great info, its good to have a stepped method that one can build on and improve. before I was just guessing and never seemed to get the results I wanted and now I know why. I did test the bag water for toxins which only had 10 PPM Nitrate.

Ill take what you said into consideration but most importantly will take additional precautions with my new Blood Parrots using a QT tank, heater and even pre-matching the QT tank water to the bag water in both PH, GH, and TDS using this water to drip acclimate for a few hours before adding them to the QT and then to the tank after an additional 24 hours PH acclimation to my standard 8.2 PH water.

I don't know what these local LFS are doing to maintain 6.5 to 7.2 PH as they say they only use tap, but it is well known that the entire town is a water softener town due to the high PH and 600 PPM GH well water off these mountains.

[Cerianthus]

Wow that's great info, its good to have a stepped method that one can build on and improve. before I was just guessing and never seemed to get the results I wanted and now I know why. I did test the bag water for toxins which only had 10 PPM Nitrate.

Ill take what you said into consideration but most importantly will take additional precautions with my new Blood Parrots using a QT tank, heater and even pre-matching the QT tank water to the bag water in both PH, GH, and TDS using this water to drip acclimate for a few hours before adding them to the QT and then to the tank after an additional 24 hours PH acclimation to my standard 8.2 PH water.

I don't know what these local LFS are doing to maintain 6.5 to 7.2 PH as they say they only use tap, but it is well known that the entire town is a water softener town due to the high PH and 600 PPM GH well water off these mountains.


As far as lfs water is concerned, I am sure they are on central system.
I dont think they are hiding any water treatment equipments since such can bring in more sales.
Only thing I can see is that their system(s) have been running for long time. As you probably know, their system hold lot more fish than most hobbyist tank thus by having more fish, pH are bound to drop with time. They may had waited until ph dopped to low and Perhaps they have figured out the amt and frequency of water changes to maintain stable pH of system within range you mentioned, provided that they are using same water from same resource.

I dont know if this method is possible but have yu ever considered Rain Water.
why dont you collect some in inert container and run some test. If rain water is close to or even acid water, perferct water to be used during pwc.
What I've done with rain water was to run filter with high quality carbon and heater before using. Even ran UV sterilzer, Ozonizer to see if I can improve water condition. But found not necessary to use high-tech Eq.
I even baked those used carbon in broiler chamber when Mom was using oven. No need to waste energy when I dont have to. lol!.
Trying various alternatives to save or should I say not to waste any! Even to a point recirculating dirty water from tank via diy water treament contraptions. Hey it worked and will work when properly maintain as long as one build good ventilation within such system room (I calle it Mech Room)
Ive been following your original posting on other forum (I am barred from that forum, lol) and I was intrigued by all the attempts and trial/errors performed by you since it reminded me of me some 40 yrs ago and still continuing. LOL

Good Luck with all the experiments and lmk if you opt for alternatives plus your results so other can utilized such info provided they keep their mind open.