I really need some advice.

[NorthcoastGirl]

I've been doing a bit of research on snakes lately, since we're getting my daughter one for Christmas. She's almost 11, but she's very responsible for her age when it comes to animals. What we're looking for is a good beginner's snake, that doesn't get too large, is native to the United States, and doesn't require rodents. So far, I've compiled a short list of snakes that fit into at least of those requirements:

Garter snake- that would be the most obvious choice, but I was surprised that common garter or ribbon snakes aren't too available.

corn snakes- gorgeous, docile, native- but they need rodents.

rough green snakes- the biggest con to this snake seems to be that many are wild-caught in the trade and therefore not the easiest snake to keep. Not recommended for beginners.


Does anybody have any experience with these snakes? I'm a rank beginner to keeping reptiles, and everything just seems really complicated! Does "gradient temperature" mean one temp on one side, a slightly cooler temp on the other? I know that snakes needs thermoregulation to stay healthy.

Also- what manner of enclosure would be recommended? Can you keep snakes in aquariums as long as they have a tight-fitting lid? If I decided to go with a rough green snake, would I place a heatlamp on just one side of the tank? I'm just so confused! LOL

Any advise would be welcome. Snakekeeping is a whole new world to me (and my daughter) and I want to do things right the first time!

[Lycanthropic]

IMHO, I would go with a corn snake. Yes they need rodents, but the rodents dont have to be live. Any snake tank needs to be a tight lid tank. A few of my friends stack things on top of the tank so they definitely dont get out. You put the het lamp on one side of the tank and then not on the other side IMO. I would go with a 20-40 gallon aquarium for a starter tank and take it from there. Make sure there are paces to hide, climb etc etc.

[cam191919]

id go with the corn snake

[LaFilleClochett]

i would also go with a corn, but im a bit biased- i have 7 :D

garter snakes seem interesting, but yes hard to get. Corns are very easy to take care of, friendly with enough attention and like someone already has said- can eat frozen rodents ( which, trust me is a LOT different then feeding live. I LOVE mice and used to have some as pets, so it was hard feeding some of my other non corn snakes live prey, where as there is not "cuteness" attachment with frozen rodents at all.)
- cornsnake babies can be a bit nippy, just like all baby snakes, but with enough attention they will calm down after a while. :D

a 10 or 20 gallon tank is a good size and get either overhead heat (heat bulb) and an under tank heater. Only problem then would be humidity, but conrs don't need as much humidity as some other snakes. If you want to learn more about corns, check out either ball-pythons.net the people are very knowledgeable there and there are a few people working with garter and other native to US snakes who would know where you can get some :) a good cornsnake site would be www.cornsnakes.com (http://www.cornsnakes.com). lots of good info to be found there!

hope that helps a bit :D

[BoJangles]

what is your definition of big? corn snakes can reach up to 4ft in length by my standards that not big my hypo red tail will reach 8 to 10 feet in length to me thats big

[NorthcoastGirl]

what is your definition of big? corn snakes can reach up to 4ft in length by my standards that not big my hypo red tail will reach 8 to 10 feet in length to me thats big


4 feet is a bit bigger then what I'd prefer. But they have a ton of pros going for them. I'll be checking on the price of the arctic mice this week. Haha- no 8 to 10 long monsters... I have 3 cats and two pet rats, I wouldn't want a mishap!

As far as heating goes- are the heating lamps preferable to the kind you put on the base? And what type of lighting should I get? They have these all-in-one reptile enclosures that include everthing but the light. I'm trying to figure if it would be cheaper to buy the ready made cages or to just get an aquarium, then get everything else separately.


Aside from the rodent requirement and the size- corn snakes are looking like the top candidate. They're available in the stores around here, so no worries with the shipping.


thank you for all the replies! my daughter is uber-excited! (there's no way we could keep this from her, with all the preliminary planning) She's a budding herp girl, I tell ya!

[BoJangles]

Think about this a fully grown adult corn at around 4ft wont be very wide(guessing here might weigh 1500 grams) as for cats i would kick them out of the room when you are going to handle the corn. My cats are WAAAYY more interested in our corn snakes than in my boas(wonder why.....).. basically a fully grown corn snake looks like a rope(and we had a small incident the snake was not hurt)

played the Google game this might be helpful
http://ball-pythons.net/modules/Sections/index.php?op=viewarticle&id=12

[Squawkbert]

Does not meet your criteria, but I can't think of a better beginner snake than a captive bred/raised Ball Python.

They're generally mellower than any Colubrid species I have experience with. Despite their bulk, they do not get as long as Corn snakes can, will often eat frozen mice or young rats, and are far less likely to bite than any other snake common to the trade (afaik).

Garter snakes on the other hand, are much higher maint. more likely to bite than many other species, are prone to smell issues w/ their preferred diet etc. etc.

[Vicious_Fish]

Kenyan Sand Boas and African House Snakes are another good choice. Both stay under 4 feet, are easy to handle and are good beginner snakes as well. But, they both need live or pre-killed mice for food. Still, if this is your first snake then you can't go wrong with a Corn or Ball Python.

[BoJangles]

Does not meet your criteria, but I can't think of a better beginner snake than a captive bred/raised Ball Python.

They're generally mellower than any Colubrid species I have experience with. Despite their bulk, they do not get as long as Corn snakes can, will often eat frozen mice or young rats, and are far less likely to bite than any other snake common to the trade (afaik).

Garter snakes on the other hand, are much higher maint. more likely to bite than many other species, are prone to smell issues w/ their preferred diet etc. etc.

Ball pythons are good but dont forget they can go off feed for months at a time and it can be worry some

[NorthcoastGirl]

Thanks for all the recommendations. =) My daughter voted for the corn snake because she thinks they're the prettiest, lol.


Ok for the basics- a 20 gallon terrarium with a tight fitting lid, reptile substrate, a heater (not a heat rock), lighting, a hide, some decor, a water bowl... is there anything else I'm missing? Oh, and a thermometer.

[LaFilleClochett]

make sure you have some hides for the snake and get either an undertank heater or heat tape. also you need something to control the heater, a rheostat at the least.

check out BHB for cool corns and garters (if yur stilll thinking about them :p)

http://www.bhbreptiles.com/

[tricksterpup]

Thanks for all the recommendations. =) My daughter voted for the corn snake because she thinks they're the prettiest, lol.


Ok for the basics- a 20 gallon terrarium with a tight fitting lid, reptile substrate, a heater (not a heat rock), lighting, a hide, some decor, a water bowl... is there anything else I'm missing? Oh, and a thermometer.

Good choice on the snake. You can get corns relatively cheap, you just need to find the right place or the right breeders. And there are tons of colors. I keep and breed corns but not shipping right now. As for mice, stay away from Artic mice unless you have no alternative. You can shoot me a pm or atleast let me know what state you live in and maybe I can find you a local breeder. This way you can one cheaper than going to petco or petsmart. Seriously, I give away normal corns to friends.

But for food, you can look around locally, there should be a mouse breeder that sells frozen mice. And if you get a baby, then you will need pinkies.

Here is a friend's feeding plan that I swear by.

The Munson Plan (Sample Feeding Chart): Revised 06/08/08
-When they're on single pinks (2-3g), I feed every 5-6 days. (Snake = 4-15g)
-Double pinks (3g x 2) every 5-6 days. (Snake = 16-23g)
-Small fuzzies (5-7g) every 6-7 days. (Snake = 24-30g)
-Regular fuzzies (7-9g) every 6-7 days (Snake = 30-50g)
-Hoppers (9-12g) every 6-7 days (Snake = 51-90g)
-Weaned (14-20g) every 7 days (Snake = 91-170g)
-Adult (20-30g) every 7-x days (Snake = 170+) See below.

Note: Adult females are fed more frequently than adult males (especially following brumation). Adult females are fed every 7-12 days; adult males are fed every 11-14 days.

This is by no means scientific, and not all corns will cooperate 100% with the schedule. The weight ranges I gave for the prey and snakes are approximate.


I also recommend this book by Kathy Love.
http://cornutopia.com/Corn%20Utopia%20on%20the%20Web/Image%20Stockpile%20-%20NEW%20June%202004/Corn%20Snakes%20-%20The%20Comprehensive%20Owner%27s%20Manual,%20COV ER.jpg

You can get it from her website where she also sells Corn Snakes.
http://www.corn-utopia.com/

Also I recommend another site as well for Forums and questions.
A great group of people. http://www.cornsnakes.com

[tricksterpup]

i would also go with a corn, but im a bit biased- i have 7 :D

Only 7? Amateur.. lol

[tricksterpup]

Oh here are some of my corns.
http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j82/iguanajim/snape4.jpg

http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j82/iguanajim/starlight2.jpg

http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j82/iguanajim/wyldfyre-1.jpg

[NorthcoastGirl]

Wow, those're pretty! I'm in Ohio, and the only stores that have snakes are Petsmart and PetSuppliesPlus.

It would be cool to find a local corn snake breeder, though, plus frozen mice. Is there anything wrong with Arctic Mice?

I think I'm as excited as my daughter is!

[Felidae]

In my exprience smaller snakes, garter, corn are more skittish, they dont really grasp and hold onto you they kinda wiggle thru your fingers. Any snake ya get is gunna need rodents. But you dont have to buy live.

I have ball pythons, and they are great. If handled alot and properly they will get very used to touch. I had one ball with me at my dorm and got handled all the time. He's great. he just chills and likes to feel your warmth. Wraps around your wrist. My top choice

[tricksterpup]

In my exprience smaller snakes, garter, corn are more skittish, they dont really grasp and hold onto you they kinda wiggle thru your fingers. Any snake ya get is gunna need rodents. But you dont have to buy live.

I have ball pythons, and they are great. If handled alot and properly they will get very used to touch. I had one ball with me at my dorm and got handled all the time. He's great. he just chills and likes to feel your warmth. Wraps around your wrist. My top choice

What are you talking about Corns being skittish?? They are one of the top snakes as pets and easier to care for than Ball pythons and a bit more forgiving in care.

Ball pythons are great pets, dont get me wrong but not as a first snake due to their ability to go off feed. The best snake for a newb is the corn. They will readily take frozen thawed and will eat almost every time offered. Some balls will go off feed for months and I have known 1 to be off feed for almost a year and still thrive. But it drove its owner crazy and a rarity in the hobby. IT was a wild caught and the owner had it for about 20 years.

Just not that, the Corn is a cheaper snake that comes in all different colors that are affordable.

As the owner does gain experience with snakes, then I recommend a Ball as a second snake but not until they gain some experience with a corn.

As a side note, if Senate bill 2811 goes through getting a nice Ball python is going to be hard to find due the law is going to make them illegal to transport over state lines.

[LaFilleClochett]

What are you talking about Corns being skittish?? They are one of the top snakes as pets and easier to care for than Ball pythons and a bit more forgiving in care.




k im gonna disagree with you there- corns can be VERY skittish- i have 7 and of the 7 i think 2 are fairly tame, one a juvie and one baby. they are more likely to bite you rather than a ball just balling up. granted their bites don't actually hurt but for a first time snake owner they can still be pretty agressive lilke. A lot of baby corns also don't eat (many are sold as "non feeders" so theres a problem there.

I agree that perhaps ball pythons arent the best first time snakes- my first snake was a ball python and hes going on almost 6 months of not eating, and yes it worries me a lot, but hes still a total sweetie pie and it is normal for ball pythons.

A small boa could be a great starter snake- they are very calm animals and with handling remain calm. They are wiked easy to care for and pretty much NEVER refuse a meal. Although they look somewhat mean, they are usually total sweet hearts and great snakes to grow with. Personally, I was scared of boas, even when y bf and i got our first one, but shes pretty much one of my fav snakes here, and her being almost as long as i am tall is not scary at all, I've handled her with my BF since she was pretty much a hatchling, and we know when shes not in a good mood and when she is- and we learned that from her.

just my 2cents :D

[BoJangles]

I am going to kindly disagree with you and go out on a limb and say a male boa BCI would be a fantastic starter snake, yes they can get 6-9 feet in length but males generally are smaller than females and even then there are exceptions. My GF started with a BP i started with a female hypo-red tail the hypo red tail has been so much more forgiving even more so than a corn, she is a blast to take out our corns try to go everywhere

I'm not trying to dissuade the OP from corns because..my GF and i have 7(we don't have space for anymore) they are great don't get me wrong they are a blast cheap, they always eat for us. But i feel that boas get a bad rep because they are different and generally (at least with my hypo red tail look like they are gonna kill you)..I'm not trying to offend you tricksterpup and if i have I'm sorry just advocating for the boa

[Reframer]

I've had corn and garter snakes. I liked the western hognose snake best because they don't bite at all.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heterodon_nasicus
A very nice looking snake that doesn't get too big and is very safe with kids. Will eat a variety, including dead mice.
And an even more interesting albino version http://www.scales-tails.co.uk/albinohognose.php

[NorthcoastGirl]

I am going to kindly disagree with you and go out on a limb and say a male boa BCI would be a fantastic starter snake, yes they can get 6-9 feet in length but males generally are smaller than females and even then there are exceptions. My GF started with a BP i started with a female hypo-red tail the hypo red tail has been so much more forgiving even more so than a corn, she is a blast to take out our corns try to go everywhere

I'm not trying to dissuade the OP from corns because..my GF and i have 7(we don't have space for anymore) they are great don't get me wrong they are a blast cheap, they always eat for us. But i feel that boas get a bad rep because they are different and generally (at least with my hypo red tail look like they are gonna kill you)..I'm not trying to offend you tricksterpup and if i have I'm sorry just advocating for the boa

If it were a snake for me, I might look into a boa. =) But this will be a snake for tiny little ten year old girl who'll be doing the vast majority of the caretaking. ( she actually insists on it). So any snake needs to be manageable when it's full size. Oh, and have pretty colors.

But hey- this one corn snake might spark a huge interest in snakes in her a few years down the road so I might be posting in this section in the future: "Help! My Daughter saved up and bought an 8 foot python!!!"

[NorthcoastGirl]

I've had corn and garter snakes. I liked the western hognose snake best because they don't bite at all.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heterodon_nasicus
A very nice looking snake that doesn't get too big and is very safe with kids. Will eat a variety, including dead mice.
And an even more interesting albino version http://www.scales-tails.co.uk/albinohognose.php


Yeah, I did look into those- very cool looking animals. But I think the corn snake has it. My daughter was just super-enthralled with all the reds and oranges that are available. Thanks for the info, though, and like I mentioned before, she might want more snakes later on- the western hognose will be a definite contender.

[tricksterpup]

Yeah, I did look into those- very cool looking animals. But I think the corn snake has it. My daughter was just super-enthralled with all the reds and oranges that are available. Thanks for the info, though, and like I mentioned before, she might want more snakes later on- the western hognose will be a definite contender.

They are nice. I own one as well but I think as a Second Snake.
As for being safe for kids. I do have to give this disclaimer, they do have a slight venom and can cause Swelling in the Arm if allowed to Chew on you.
Here is a link to someone who subjected himself to a nasty bite. http://www.herpnet.net/bite/

[Reframer]

Yeah, I did look into those- very cool looking animals. But I think the corn snake has it. My daughter was just super-enthralled with all the reds and oranges that are available. Thanks for the info, though, and like I mentioned before, she might want more snakes later on- the western hognose will be a definite contender.
They do have red and orange varieties now just to let you know :)

[NorthcoastGirl]

Okaysie- we'll be getting the habitat kit today. We found one of those "snake habitat kits" at PetSuppliesPlus, that comes with the 20 gallon tank, lighting, substrate, a hide, a water dish, a humidity/temp gauge, and some decor. We need a heater don't we? I saw a heater by exo-terra that goes under the substrate, I think. The habitat comes with a hood with a place to put the lights.