Another attempt at Blood Parrots in QT

For reasons having to do I believe with my high PH water I have had poor success in the past with Parrots and gold fish. After much trial and error I have finally been having good success keeping gold fish using new acclimation methods by trial and error using feeder fish as test subjects to get it right.

Anyway with my new success keeping goldies I got bold last night and bought 3 juvenile basic orange BP's and acclimated them with a bucket and drip for a few hours taking them from a PH of 7.4 to 8.2. Part pf the concern was that the bag water had an ammonia content of .5 PPM so I had to also add a drop or two of Prime to the bag water becasue taking them to a higher PH would make the ammonia in the bag more toxic. Im worried now that this may have been a mistake as 2 drops of prime in a quart of bag water is pretty strong.

After acclimation I bagged them again in the bucket water to acclimate the temperature which had dropped to 76 and the aquarium was 80 so I floated them. I realize now that for long drip acclimation drip water from the QT aquarium does not provide enough heat and I should have use a heater to match the QT aquarium.

I decided that this time the QT aquarium would have no ornaments to hide in just like the LFS so that I could monitor their initial health, eating and progress and to prevent injury as I notice that new PB's would rather bury themselves under a rock and die then show themselves. Once established and stable I will add ornaments and hiding places one at a time but what I don't want to do is be digging them out if they don't make it and sending survivors into more stress tearing up the tank.

So far 12 hours into the QT 2 are fine but one has red gills and is swimming funny. So even if If two only make it, it will be progress. My water parameters are all OK PH 8.2, Ammo 0, Nitri 0 Nitra 10 PPM, GH 34 PPM, KH 125 PPM, TDS 980 PPM (Cal/Mag 134 PPM; Potassium 845 PPM).

Question does anyone else think that mutation Parrots are more susceptible then other normal strain American Cichlids? Has anyone noticed a susceptibility or weakness in comparison? None of my other Americans, Africans, or tropicals seem so sensitive as BP's and Gold fish to my water.

Well unfortunately all that didn't work either 2 of 3 DOS but at least Walsmart has a 48 hour return policy. Think Ill get get my $14 back and stick with PerSmart fish minus any BP's. I now accept the fact that for some reason I just cant keep them. The only question now is do I wait for the 3rd which looks so-so or just return the two. Better do the two now and hope the third makes it I guess.

I have never had a problem except for goldies and BP's. But I can now say that I have figured out goldies, for goldies I just can no longer add pure RO for evaporate replacement on a biweekly basis and have to mix tap with RO for them. Also for my goldies on water change day I have to refill their 30% empty tanks the slowest, about 20% of refill with 30 minute water rest periods in between until full, this while refilling my other 4 tanks much faster. Since then no more unexplained deaths.

I suspect that the same thing that goldies are sensitive to in my water, is even more impacting on BPs. But im not willing to go beyound reasonable efforts if they are that sensitive to my water. Better to just leave those mutated and deformed fish alone.

MotionInSilver said:

okay- what is the parameters straight out of tap water when it sits for at least 12-24 hours?

I have several really fragile SA cichlids myself and I do not use R/O water - my PH is around 7 straight out of the tap- its really the water changes that really keeps them happy but I know my TDS is around 145 though.

I know of several fish keepers that do the same thing so its really not the PH in some cases.

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When I first started keeping fish here in bullhead AZ our city well water was and is the hardest water in the US. Out of the well 600-800 PPM GH, PH 8.2, Amm 0, Nitra 5. My fish would just die from suffocation as O2 levels could not consistently be maintained above 4 PPM. Fish life requiring 5-9 PPM O2. I started using 50% RO and 50% which worked wonders initially well but would cause great fluctuation in PH during water changes again killing a few fish after water changes even pleco's.

This became cost prohibitive so I decided to try removing the toxic levels of Cal/Mag and other heavy metals such as copper which was the original casue killing my fish with the use of a water softener. The change was remarkable as measured GH fell from 600-800 PPM down to 18-34 PPM, and my PH down to 7.6 and while my TDS did not chnage because heavy metal ions were merly exchanged for salt (later potassium), the effect of salt ions compared to Cal/Mag ions at those high levels far less damaging to fish osmoregulatrory function.

This small amount of salt ions which water floods into a fish and reduces the regulatory workload on the fishes kidneys is the same when fish keepers add a small amount of salt to a pond or aquarium. Also the added negative of Cal/Mag at those high levels displacing O2 in the water dose not occur with salt on the same scale. In fact 02 remains at life sustaining levels (5-7 PPM O2) in water with salt ion levels as high as 50,000 PPM (salt water fish). According to the EPA fish life cannot be sustained in GH levels higher then 500 PPM and not healthy for human consumption above 800 PPM but that is the water we have.

While opponents to water softening strenuously oppose their use on the predication that hard by definition 200-300 PPM GH is not harmful to fish, I totally agree. They have no answer for hard water a lethal levels at 600-800 PPM GH except for something like:

"Oh well ah, that's impossible, uh maybe you should move, use RO, maybe your tank is cycling, all I know and hear is that softeners are bad period!"

So to answer your question my water from the recharged softener is Amm 0, Nitri 0, Nitra 5, GH 18, KH 125, PH 7.6, TDS 800. It works very well but extar care has to be taken for my goldies. As far as BP's they are probubly predisposed becasue of their mutation deformities which are probubly internal as well as external.

Well I got my $24 refunded at Walsmart for the lost BP's. Normally if its my fault like the case I mistakenly placed two juvenile Convicts in my A. Cichlid tank I will not ask for a refund even thou no one would know its enough that I know.

but in this case I did everything right and the BPs died 24 hours later so I took the bag a frozen fish to the CS office and they diden't even want to look at the fish. Pretty easy compared to chain LFS that want to know the details.

Anyway I took some of the money and stopped by PetSmrt and picked up two 1.5" Red zebras for my A. cichlid tank. I have no doubt they will have no problems acclimating after 1 hour on the drippier and refloated for temp. They also had some new BP's in stock but I told the girl I learned my lesson, no more comic book fish.

Hay Thanks Giving & God Bless everyone.

I just wanted to add for my earlier comments the EPA TDS Chart that establishes safe levels of hard and heavy metal minerals, none of which are representative of salt or potassium which do not affect water the same way. Why for example my tanks are averaging 1200 TDS but only 10% is Cal/Mag the rest is potassium. However to strike a better balance Im currently in the process of adjusting my softener recharge so that Cal/Mag is between 100-200 PPM and Potassium is 400 PPM. So that the benefits of both can be realized without the higher doses of either one.