View Full Version : Tropic Marin Bio-Calcium
fsn77
12-07-2009, 11:06 AM
While I regularly use Seachem Reef Advantage Calcium, Kent Turbo Calcium, or Reef Smart Calcium (a TB Aquatics product), this morning I decided to give Tropic Marin Bio-Calcium a try as I've run out of those brands that I normally use. Despite what the directions say, I am not comfortable just sprinkling any dry powder directly into my tank. So, I mixed one teaspoonful at a time into a 10 oz cup of RO/DI water and added it to my overflow. Before I even reached 1/2 of the recommended dose, I noticed that the water coming out of the return was starting to get cloudy. I stopped my dosing right there, as none of the other brands have ever clouded my tank, even when I dosed above the recommended levels on the label. Shortly afterward and even an hour later, the whole tank was still cloudy.
Is this typical when using Tropic Marin Bio-Calcium?
If so, how long before the tank usually clears up again?
Amphiprion
12-07-2009, 11:41 AM
I've never seen or heard of it clouding things up. It's calcium gluconate, so it will be biologically metabolized by bacteria but nowhere close to that fast. Even then, it still shouldn't have done that. Have you tested calcium and alkalinity levels to make sure nothing happened as far as precipitation is concerned?
Edit: are you using anything else with it?
fsn77
12-07-2009, 11:48 AM
On Saturday, alkalinity was 10 dKH and Ca was 380 ppm. No addition of either (or anything else except a light feeding of pellet food) since Saturday morning until the Tropic Marin Bio-Calcium this morning. Saturday's addition was the last of the Kent Turbo Calcium I had, which was not enough to make up what I would normally add as a full dose. When I added the Bio-Calcium this morning, it was only the Bio-Calcium mixed in RO/DI water.
Amphiprion
12-07-2009, 11:52 AM
That's still odd. It is a balanced calcium/alkalinity additive, so I wonder if it pushed anything over the edge. But at the recommended dosage, it should not raise it that substantially. The only thing that I can think of that would have tipped it is if the magnesium was pretty low, thus having lower solubility from the start. Have you tested the parameters since you added the bio calcium this morning? What about magnesium?
fsn77
12-07-2009, 12:01 PM
No, I haven't tested since this morning. I can this evening after work though. I'll check the Mg, too, while I'm at it. I wouldn't imagine Mg to be low, but then again I wouldn't imagine that the Bio-Calcium would cloud the tank either.
I should know better than to mess with one of the tanks in the morning before work... I'm never going to be around long enough to diagnose / fix anything before I have to leave for the day.
Amphiprion
12-07-2009, 12:05 PM
I wish I could say I haven't done the same. I've done things before a prolonged trip, knowing it would could be an issue while I'm gone. Probably OK, though. Bio Calcium is a relatively safe product.
Ok, I checked the tank when I got home and it had cleared up. I tested the levels and here's what I get:
Alkalinity: 10 dKH
Calcium: 360 ppm
Magnesium: 1520 ppm
I had been dosing Mg somewhat regularly until a couple of weeks ago, since the Reef Smart Calcium and Kent Turbo Calcium do not contain a Mg component like the Seachem Reef Advantage Calcium does. I hadn't been watching the level very closely, which is why it is a little higher than it normally would be.
I'm trying to get the levels back on track, as I'm about to hook up a calcium reactor to this tank, hoping it will simplify things for me once I get it dialed in.
Amphiprion
12-07-2009, 8:24 PM
The calcium level is lower, but that is within the range of error for most kits, so it is likely unchanged. What's more of an indicator is your alkalinity which didn't rise at all. Maybe there was some precipitation and it bumped it back to the previous level. Did it clear up for you (should have)?
Yep, it's cleared up. As for the test results, keep in mind that this morning when it clouded up that I had only dosed a little less than half of the recommended dose, so I wouldn't think there would be a noticable change in the numbers since the last tests were on Saturday. Is my thinking incorrect? (presuming there was some consumption since then)
Any thoughts about continuing to use the Bio-Calcium? Is the clouding the formation of an insoluble precipitate, or something less of a concern and just more of an annoyance?
Amphiprion
12-07-2009, 9:33 PM
Yep, it's cleared up. As for the test results, keep in mind that this morning when it clouded up that I had only dosed a little less than half of the recommended dose, so I wouldn't think there would be a noticable change in the numbers since the last tests were on Saturday. Is my thinking incorrect? (presuming there was some consumption since then)
Any thoughts about continuing to use the Bio-Calcium? Is the clouding the formation of an insoluble precipitate, or something less of a concern and just more of an annoyance?
Difficult to say, unfortunately. One way to find out is to continually dose it at full strength for a few days and note any changes. If you see things drop or not move at all, you can conclude precipitation. If it does rise, you can conclude that it is an annoyance in your particular instance. I've just never had an issue with clouding with this product. It's not one that I've used often or even recently, but it still dissolved relatively clear and didn't result in a noticeable clouding of the tank. Of course, if you decide to try the experiment, have some calcium chloride and sodium bicarbonate/carbonate on hand to boost any levels that fall. It should be safe enough to at least attempt to get to the bottom of what is going on.
When I went to dose last night (attempting to complete the dose I started in the morning), I noticed something that may be important. When I mix the Bio-Calcium in the RO/DI water it clouds the water (the other brands of calcium I've used tend to stay clear when mixed). After adding only 3 teaspoons (each mixed into a cupful of RO/DI water), the entire 250g tank began to mildly cloud. Again, at this point I stopped dosing and had an idea. I walked away from the tank for roughly 30 minutes and came back to the tank having cleared most of the way. I decided to go against what my typical thinking is and tried adding a single teaspoon to the overflow to see what would happen. One teaspoon in, no clouding of any of the water in the overflow... Two teaspoons in, no clouding... Three, four, five teaspoons in, no couding. I added a total of 7 teaspoons (with less than 30 seconds between each teaspoon) to the overflow and there wasn't a single bit of clouding of any of the water in the overflow, the sump, or the tank itself. The powder is so fine that none of it settled to the bottom of the overflow.
It would seem that trying to dissolve the Bio-Calcium in RO/DI water first might be counterproductive? Is the fact that the RO/DI water is so poorly buffered that creates the cloudiness and/or precipitate, and the buffered state of the tank water itself prevents this from happening?
Amphiprion
12-08-2009, 3:05 PM
It would seem, chemically speaking, more likely to precipitate in your tank, not the RO/DI water. It may be more reactive in RO/DI water, though, but still not exactly sure what would cause the clouding. At this point, I guess just dose it in your tank to avoid the clouding and see if that still works :D.
Thanks, Amphi... For whatever reason and regardless of how against my thinking it goes to add it that way, adding it dry to the overflow seems to work. I guess not all label directions are bad. :D