One of my chiclids died and no clue why

C

clown04

AC Members
Oct 18, 2009
27
0
0
i have a 30gal long tank with a full size angle, juvy slavini, baby yellow african and a baby texas chiclid, a sail fin pleco, 2 apple snails and a fiddler crab.
last weekend i went to my local petstore and got a baby haplochronis, not sure which one, was white/blue with a black stripe from head to tail with orange tips on its fins.
the hap was doing fine, getting along with the other chiclids, but i noticed it had stopped eating and was resting on the tank decorations. within 2 hours it had started swimming erratically and had black patches all over its body.
the next morning the fish wasnt even floating. it was laying on the gravel, didnt have any eyes. really skinny. some of its colour looked like it had come back but there was some sort of lump on the side of its body.

all of my other fish in the tank are doing fine.
i checked out the haplochronis's in the same tank at the petstore today and they were doing fine. my girlfriend works there and said that they havnt had any problems with those fish.

my water temp is around 80f. water conditions are all spot on. the tank has been setup for a few months now.

none of its fins were nipped and i didnt notice any aggression towards it from the other fish.

so any ideas on why my fish died and why it died the way it did?
the only guess i came up with was a toxin or parasite, but none of the other fish are ill.
 
I'm not sure what happened, but African cichlids require totally different ph, GH and KH than Texas and Angels, also the pleco. Africans should be in a tank with other Africans in really hard water, as opposed to the soft, slightly acidic needs of the SA cichlids and even the Texas require water that is not so hard and alkaline.

There are African experts in the Cichlid forum I'd check with there. It's possible the fish in your tank had adjusted to your conditions and the new one from the petstore was in much harder water with high ph. Really, it's not so much the difference in the ph as it is the TDS, total dissolved solids, that are in hard water

Did you quarantine the fish before adding to the tank? Also, how did you acclimate.

What are those parameters in your tank, please.
 
Depending on what species of haplochromines, they dont all required high pH/GH water. Although Haps seemed to tolerate wide range of pH beter than others when acclimated over long period.
Dont know where you keep your pH at or at lfs. That should be the first thing you should check.
Dont know the size of your salvinii, they can get pretty agressive and Texas can be equally tough if not more.

With an assumption your water was with in ideal/acceptable range and no major difference b/n yours and lfs, how about isolating new one for few days inside the tank. At least this will give a new fish a better fighting chance, regardless of howe well or how long you acclimated new fish.
The way I see it, regardless of duration of acclimation, letting new fish adjust to new water and surroundings without any harrassment by tankmates which may think new fish as intruder on their turf will yield less chance of losses.
Make a DIY contraption: Simple clear plastic carbon jar with massive amount of holes in it for circulation. Use hot screwdriveer tip to make holes. You may hold it down with the rock/gravel or you can simply let jar float around. Tie fishing line around the rim so you can retrieve the jar for feeding without sticking you hand int the tank.

Always Check the difference in water conditions b/n your tank and lfs when buying new fish which would give some idea how acclimation procedure/duration should be applied.
 
the fishes are all baby's right now, so defiantly not over stocked at this moment.

the only thing that changed in the tank was the new hap fish and a big piece of fake wood that i got. i had the fake wood in boiling hot water for a couple of hours but my guess now is that there must've been something on it that's effecting the fish, parasite, toxin, ect. i took it out once i realized.
I also have a large piece of drift wood that i have had in this tank since day 1.

From what i've seen the past couple of days, the yellow african seems very stressed out and swims erratically around the tank, and dosnt look to be eating either. Its been hanging behind the filters intake tube at the waters surface sometimes too.
The texas and the yellow have been rubbing themselves against the rocks.
All my other fish are eating and the salvini is doing fine.

the filter = biowheel 150, running 2 filter pads in it right now in case of toxins.
i also have an air stone in the tank too, so no lack of o2.
ammonia = 0. nitrite = 0. nitrate is around 0.
i tested the ph of my tap water today and it has gone up from 7ph (tested it in august) to 8.8ph.
i changed about 20% of the tank water today. tested the ph and it was just under 8ph. i put some ph upper in and a couple hours later the ph is at 7.4!
ive never tested kh or gh.

My angel is in my other tank and doing fine.

i bought some anti-parasite medicated fish food today too in case of parasites. i bought the food instead of the tabs or drops because i dont want to take the carbon out in case it is toxins and not parasites. dont want the fish dieing.
dosage = feed for 3 consecutive days a week, for 4 weeks, with no other fish food.
ive started feeding them this today, they havnt eaten much of it.

the pellets float on the surface and for some reason my fish will not come to the surface to eat the food. i have the floating cichlid pellets too which they wont eat until they start sinking.

could ph swings be causing my problems??
my fish dont look to be loosing any colour, just lethargic at times and only the yellow isnt eating.
the colour on the salvini and texas goes really dark sometimes for a couple of mins.

i will attach some pics too.
 
heres the pics.....
the texas is only a baby. (is that "clamped fin"? its tail fin is like that alot)
in one pic you can see the yellow behind the intake tube and the other its underneath the turtle dock with the bubbles (which i use for the crab).
the blue is also an african, eats fine but kicks its tail on the rocks.
the pics dont give any justice to my salvini, the colours on in are awesome but hes camera shy. as soon as i put the camera down he comes out from hiding.
the salvini is the biggest fish in the tank but its still small right now. it has alot of neon blue and red coloration to it.

neither the texas or the salvini are aggressive.

2hg8ryx.jpg

(the tank. the yellow is behind the intake tube)

24odfll.jpg

(crab and blue african)

2i8epo8.jpg

(the texas)

16iayr.jpg

(texas)

2afn8mh.jpg

(the blue)

29d7ac2.jpg

(pleco and salvini)

nxub0k.jpg

(the yellow)

15mjwvd.jpg

(salvini)

2vtduex.jpg

(salvini and pleco)
 
How long has the tank be set up? You have 0 nitrate so I'm wondering if the tank if fully cycled.

Are you using srips or a liquid test kit to test your parameters. Strips are unreliable and give inaccurate results, most often. API Master is a good liquid test kit.

It does sound like the new fish is stressed. He may be on the receiving end of some aggression, as Cerianthus mentioned. The Hap is the new kid on the block and he is in their space. The Texas and the Salvini may be pestering him at night when you don't see it, and that may be scaring him to death.

It's best to avoid the use of chemical adusters, such as; PH UP, or PH Down. It's better to let you ph settle down and adjust naturally. For harder, more alkaline water a lot of folks use some crushed coral in the filter, or limestone rocks. Driftwood, bogwood, or peat can help your water be more soft and acidic.

I would try to get the GH and KH testing kits. Lets see what going on with your water. You need to do baseline testing on your tap water, and then monitor your tank water to see what those params, as well as the ph, are doing in your tank.

Rubbing, or flashing, can be a sign of external parasites, such as Ich. I would watch for any specks that look like grains of salt on the fish. Sometimes fish may just have an itch, but if it's more often than an occasional rub on rocks or decor they may have Ich.

Stress can take a hit on the immune system of your fish, and often this is what precipitates an outbreak of Ich. It's always best to quarantine new fish, some say for about a month, before adding them to your tank. I'm not meaning to step on any toes... we've all been there. I just want to help.

More information about your tank would be helpful. The pics you've provided are very nice. More pics when you can. We all love to look at other folks tanks, and closeup photos, if they'll sit still and pose for
you, :D are always helpful.

The answers to the questions found at this link will help:

http://www.aquariacentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=180877

Some of these questions have already been answered, but it would help if you could give us the other information detailed in the link.

AC is a great forum with very helpful, very knowledgeable fishkeepers that want to help. You've come to the right place to get help. I know they've helped me through some rough patches. :)
 
my camera is a cannon point and shoot, gonna get a cannon DSLR for xmas. the camera i have now dosnt like shooting pics through the glass lol.

the scratching/rubbing isnt ich though, they've been doing this since ive had them. the africans do this more often then the texas and the salvini. ive had ich in my 20gal tank twice, theres no white spots on any of the fish in my 30gal.

i dont use the test strips. i have api droplet kits, ammonia, ph, high range ph and nitrite.

answers to the link..
1) its a 30gal long.

2) water specs:
ammonia = 0
ph = between 7.4ph and 8ph (tap water is 8.8ph). it seems to be dropping quite fast.
nitrite = 0
nitrate = (i dont have a test kit at home for this one, but i am going to the store tomorrow and getting it all tested).
kh = no idea, never tested, will do at the store tomorrow.
gh = never tested.

3) freshwater, not brackish.

4) the tank has been setup for around 4 or so months now.

5) sailfin pleco, about 4", had since mid-summer.
rubber lip pleco, 2", had for around 2 weeks now.
salvini, about 2-3"(?), had a little over a month.
texas, 1-2", had a little over a month.
yellow african, 2", had for about 2 weeks.
blue african, 2" had for about a week.
the haplochronis, 2", had for 3 days, the only that has died.
fiddler crab, 2"(?), had for little over a month.
and 2 small apple snails.

6) none of the fish were quarantined, but properly acclimated.

7) the water temp is at 81*F with no fluctuations. the heater is a 200w Hydor Theo heater.

8) there is 1 live plant in the tank. i dont remember the name off hand until i search for the card tomorrow, but its a basic fresh water plant that i used to have in my 20gal tank and its been in this 30gal tank since day 1.

9) filter is a bio-wheel 150. (running 2 carbon filter pads in it right now).

10) only 1 extra piece of equipment that is an air pump running an air stone in the tank.

11) the tank dosnt receive any natural sunlight. the tank light comes on at 8am, goes off at 11pm.

12) today was the last time i changed the water. i took out around 20%. i do a water change on both tanks once a week, taking out around 20% of water, cleaning the filter pads in the old water and cleaning the intake tubes. also vacuuming part of the gravel each time.

13) foods...
Hikari tropical algae wafers for the plecos (every other day).
hikari cichlid gold (once a day).
tetramin tropical crisps (once a day along with the cichlid pellets since my fish wont come to the surface to eat the food).

14) the hap died a couple of days after having him. the yellow, texas and the blue are all rubbing and flicking their tails on the gravel (theres no sign of ich). the salvini rarely rubs on the decorations.
the yellow is swimming erratically all the time now and is either hiding behind the filter intake tube at the waters surface looking up, or under the turtle dock swimming weird with the bubbles.

15) I have pulled out the fake wood which might have had parasites or a toxin on it. and i am now using Anti-Parasite medicated fish food to rule out parasites.
 
Well I have to say you have a pretty bad mix in your tank and are going to have to split fish up or rehome them eventually. Plus the crab would be happier with brackish water.

That being said your africans seem very stressed. I'll ID your africans for you. The yellow one is a yellow lab ( Labidochromis caeruleus)or a yellow lab cross, most of the time yellow labs have black on their fins but yours looks all yellow. The blue one is a washed out Pseudotropheus socolofi. Both of these afrcian cichlids are known as mbuna.
Mbuna really prefer to be housed with other mbuna. They typically don't mix well with SA cichlids. They prefer different water conditions and stocking rules. Also they have totally different dietery needs.Mbuna are herbavores and need a low protien diet. They will eat your plant of at least tear it up. Make sure the food you are feeding has less that %40 protien. It should say on the label. They can get sick and die from having a diet too highin protien. The hap would not have had this problem. I think he was either sick when you got him or died from stress and bullying.

Yellow labs are pretty mellow for mbuna (all mbuna are aggressive). The one you have is most likely very stressed. He's most likely getting picked on by the other fish. Labs also prefer to be in groups to feel more secure. The socolfi is a little more of an aggressive species and most likely is holding his own a bit better. He still looks a little pale but it may just be genetics.

The scrtaching you are seeing is pretty normal for mbuna. They tend to do it more than other fish. As long as they are not doing it all the time and as long as no other sign of disease shows up, they are fine. Just make sure they are still eating. I'm not sure what you mean by kicking their tail on the rocks. Do they shiver? This is also normal behavior. It's a way of showing off for a mate or saying "Hey I'm the boss"

Now stop adding chemicals to your tank. All you need is dechlorinator. Something is causing your Ph to fall and you need to figure out what. Is that driftwood real? Driftwood can cause your Ph to drop if your Kh and Gh are not very high. You'll need to add somekind of buffer to help keep the Ph more stable. I think baking soda can be used but I don't know the exact messurements. Many people use some crushed coral in the tank to buffer a higher Ph.

I really doubt the fake driftwood is the problem unless it wasn't approved for aquarium use. Some reptile fake driftwood will have an antibacterial coating on it that can leach into the water. If you boiled it I doubt any parasite could have survived.

Your temp is pretty high. I would lower it back down to around 78 degrees. I also think the unstable Ph could be stressing your fish more.
 
You have been given some good info so far... making mistakes is not uncommon in this hobby.

Spend some time looking through the different forums and species...you will find bits of helpful info everywhere. There are GREAT people here and you will find there is no question they afraid to answer...from brutally honest to subtlety, all a person need do is keep an open mind they will be rewarded..
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
AquariaCentral.com
Top Bottom