Newbie Needs Reality Check - Buying First Tank (Acrylic)

[Naught]

Hi,

I'd like to buy a 20-30 gallon for our living room. I think I have researched this as far as I can without actually having a tank or even a fish yet. Now it's time to ask experienced users for a reality check of where I am heading.

My priorities (in order of priority):

1. SAFETY for kids (3 and 5 years old)
2. Safety for home (no leaks)
3. Safety/health of fish
4. Looks good in living room
4. Minimum upkeep/skill
5. Costs ($500-$1,000 budget)

I have read about 1,000 articles on glass vs. acrylic. I know each type has diehard fans. I decided on acrylic because of my first two priorities. However, no stores near me have acrylic tanks on display... my main question is how they look on top without a traditional hood, and how do I know if a filter I pick will fit, etc.

I have also decided that I am fine with the simplest freshwater tank w/artificial plants, and not bio-loaded to the max. I'd like to get a lot of smaller fish that are hardy and school with a couple bottom dwellers.

I decided 30 gallons maximum because I know if I get 55+ range it gets awfully heavy on the floor. Also, we don't have a sink in the living room! I decided on at least 20 because everything I read says larger tanks are easier for a newbie to control the environment. Also, I think I need at least 20 to look good in the living room.

Here is what I am considering (maybe or maybe not from these vendors):

Tank:

Cobolt Blue background:

http://www.meijer.com/catalog/product.jsp?productId=133558&productVariantId=163141&quantity=1&itemGUID=0b37cf9bc0a8877b59063fad8557535d

I like that it is not too tall (I read that gives fish more oxygen), the lower center of gravity, and long display)



Stand:

The Red Oak one:

http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+3732+16781&pcatid=16781

http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/swatch_image.cfm?window=1&prod=16781&ranknum=2&thumbid=4241&thumbpage=1&list=4240,4241&breeds=1

I have sent the vendor an e-mail asking if this stand is suitable for acrylic tanks (support across entire bottom).

Questions:

1. Is the canopy worthwhile? Or would it look wierd without one (I cannot find any pictures of acrylic tanks set up with top showing)
2. 14" depth seems skinny to me, but virtually all tanks I see for tanks this size are like that. It'll be really heavy... how easy could it tip?!! (remember Priority #1).
3. I read acrylic tanks are less sensitive to being off-level than glass... just how level do I need to get it? It'll be on carpet.
4. Filter/heater kit recommendations etc. that would fit without modifying or cutting the tank.
5. Am I missing anything?

Thanks!!

ps - I have a net.

[WeedCali]

you might not want a show tank simply because its only 12" deep. It might just be my personal preference but i dont generally recommend them.

I also vote against artificial plants. You can get low-light/maintenance plants like anubias, java fern/moss and amazon swords. looks ages better than fake.

Dont think im trying to bash your setup, just stating my opinion. do what you feel is right :)

[katana1200]

Welcome to Aquaria Central! Sounds like you have done a great deal of research and are well on your way to having an awsome tank. I can not speak on the acrylic specific questions you have as I do not have one myself. I do know that you do need to be careful on the implements you use to clean them as they are prone to scratching.

I can, however, answer a question about safety in reguards to little ones. Being a father of 3 myself (7, 4, and 20months) I can relate to your concern. You can count on the tank with all gravel and decor in place weighing in at apx 10lbs per gallon. You are talking about roughly 300 lbs sitting on a sturdy stand with a generous foot print. I myself have a 29 gallon tall (24" tall x 24" long x 12" deep) on a rather tall stand on hardwood and have not had reason to fear the little ones pulling it over. It is quite heavy and firmly planted.

The carpet is not an ideal surface. Many suggest removing the portion of carpet and pad under the tank, putting down a small section of lanolium (sp?) floor with carpet bars finishing the look. On the other hand, I'm sure that not every tank in history has failed on carpet. That is a rather big step to take for a fishtank.

As far as plants vs. no plants its up to you. I can tell you that I am able to grow several types of plants with no special lighting, fertalizers, or mechanical gadgets. I, personally, feel it makes for a better habitat. If you reconsider please check out the planted forum for low tech/ low light set ups. They can be beautiful and easy to maintain. Or ask further questions within this thread. We will be more than happy to answer.

Hope someone chimes in on the acrylic specific concerns. Please post pictures of your new setup as it comes along. We love pictures here.

[Reframer]

Ok, I have 3 kids (1, 4, and 6 year old). They have bumped into my glass 55 dozens of times and has never been a problem. Galss tanks are pretty durable as long as they are professionally made and the seals at the corners are still flexible. The other thing is that even a 30 gallon tank will be 300 pounds, which is way too heavy to be moved by a small child. As long as they are not climbing on top of it or hitting it with a baseball bat, it should be fine. I have had acrylic in the past and scrathces really became a problem.
I would reccomend getting a used tank from someone local, and giving it a good look over. Go for the biggest tank you can get and care for, it will be easiest in the long run. A 40 gallon breeder tank would be nice. Almost all tanks look nice in your home as long as they are stocked approriately and well kept.
If you go acrylic, just make sure you know how to clean it without scratching it, and stay away from sand or gravel that scratches.

[kj5kb]

ditto ^^^ I have a 40 breeder that sits on top of a dresser in the guest room. It's very sturdy, lots of room for plants and things. A 30 breeder is the same footprint, just a little shorter.

[bluekrissyspike]

i have to agree with the people saying that acrylic gets scratched up. my kids(1, 3, 5 and 9) have put a few nice scratches on my acrylic 29g but it still looks pretty good. so far my glass 10g tanks are good, no scratches and none have ever been knocked over. i'd definately go for a canopy as opposed to glass top. it's way less interesting to the little ones and it seems more 'off limits' to mine anyways. i don't see the tank being too shallow. i'd go for plants if possible. they look good(way better than plastic), help keep the water balanced between water changes, the fish seem to like them and they make maintenance easier if you go with lots of lowlight plants. if you get a python it won't matter how big your tank is or that you have no sink in the livingroom. i can also strongly suggest that you get some nice natural looking gravel and avoid florescent colors. kids may like them but in a year or so, you'll wish you'd have put something natural and if you get up the steam to switch it, it's a lot of hassle. good luck and welcome to the hobby.

[Naught]

Thanks for the great replies!

As far as live plants, I like that idea. I'll need to research it more... I always thought they needed special lights, substrate etc. I'll look into it more if they are not too hard.

As far as the carpet, I have no handyman skills. My wife will nix the project if I start tearing out carpet (or paying a handyman to). Would going to a smaller size help? I'll need to research this more.

WeedCali, I am still flexible on tank shape/dimensions. Why do you not recommend 12" deep? Look funny, not stable, hard to clean or poor water circulation/thermal control?

[katana1200]

12" deep, front to back is a pretty common deminson in aquarium footprints. Here is a link to a website with glass aquarium tank deminsions. http://www.thekrib.com/TankHardware/size-chart.html
Even your common 55gal tank is 12.5" deep.

The python water change system is a hefty inital cost, however, it is well worth it.

I do not believe that a smaller tank would make a difference as far as carpet goes. Actually quite the contrary. I believe that a heavier tank will stand a better chance of compressing carpet and foam. With a glass aquarium you would probably want to stay within 1/8" of level. Use Cedar shims across the front and/or sides untill level. Try to make sure you shim more than just the corners, you'll need support across the whole of the base. Also, use a playing card to measure the gap between the stand and the tank. This is a step alot of people forget. If you can slide the playing card between the tank and the stand you're asking for the tank to bear the load in that spot, not the wood. Alot of people use a very thin layer of styrofoam between tank and stand to hep offset this problem. They make a styrofoam that is near paper thin available at home depot, or lowes or any home improvement store for that matter.

Common low light plants that I grow with standard aquarium lighting include:
Anubias Lanceolata
Anubias Nana narrow leaf
Amazon sword "ruby melon"
Crypt Lutea
African Water Fern
Guppy grass

Here is a link to an aquatic plant profile page you may find usefull:
http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/myplants/All_Plants/0/0

Here is a link to other common low light plants:
http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/low-tech-forum/56042-excellent-list-low-light-plants.html

Hope this helps in your search.

[Knoxx]

Even though I don't rent I would never cut a patch out of my carpet to put a tank on. If your tank stand footprint is 24"x12" I would get a piece of 1" plywood at 36"x24" to put it on. You can stain/paint it to match your decor of the room. If you stain remember to seal it with 3 coats of polyurethane so the smell of the stain won't choke you off. I think this would help a lot for stability on carpet.

I know I'm going to do this for my 65 gal that I'm setting up in Feb. Of course my footprint will be different. This will distribute the weight of the stand evenly over the carpet rather than letting the frame work of the stand to settle and crush down the carpet unevenly.

[67chevelle]

Just put your stand and tank on whatever flooring you have.Carpet,tile,wood.It will be fine.Never heard not to put tanks on carpet before.

Unless you are looking to get a large tank,get glass.Acrylic is so much more expensive,and is so easy to scratch.So unless it is more than a 220,get glass.

I would not get anything smaller than a 30.A 30 would be perfect for what it sounds like you want.A 3 foot tank will look big,and allow you too keep some schoolers,and have enough water to make maintaining it easy.
I would not stick to a 30 if you are worried about the weight though.A 55 or 75 will be fine in any home,on any floor.If the floor will support furniture with people sitting on it,it will support a tank.

Canister filters need to be cleaned less often,and just work better IMO.There are lots of different brands to choose from.Marineland stealth heaters are also good.If you get a canister filter,you could put a in-line heater on it and have less equipment in your tank.

Like the others have said and suggested,go with live plants.There are lots that are low light and easy to maintain.

Acrylic is more likely to burst a seam if not perfectly level than a glass tank.But having either level is important.I have a 55 on carpet that I used plastic shims to get it level.It's easy to do.

Get yourself a python for water changes.You won't regret it.
http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=3910
Depending on how much hose you will need,they are not that much money,and worth every penny.

The canopy is up to you.I personally don't care for them.But they look fine with or without them.Acrylic or glass.

Don't forget to cycle your tank before adding fish,and good luck!

[Conski]

wow 500 to 1000 dollars? read about SW with the money your talking you got enough to start a nice SW tank ;) plus your kids will go crazy when they see "nemo"

but you seem to have your knowledge on FW at the moment so id stick with your original plan. i dk im just a salty guy and with a price range like that it would be well worth it to read about saltwater and start it up and i wouldn't necessarily say you need to start with fresh to go into salt either.. i completely impulse bought a saltwater tank one day and its doing very good. JUST A THOUGHT! (let the bashing begin)

good luck though

[Naught]

I just wanted to give everyone an update and thank everyone again for their comments.

Tank

I just ordered the 30 Gallon Show Acrylic SeaClear aquarium. It is 36 Long" X 12 Deep" X 16 High with Blue background. List at Petco.com was $199, but was on sale for $173. Petco had sent me two promotions, so was $138.40 +tax, with free shipping. There is a local store by me if I have any problems.

http://www.petco.com/product/109955/SeaClear-Rectangular-30-Gallon-Show-Aquarium-Combos.aspx?CoreCat=OnSiteSearch

Stand/Canopy

I am still leaning toward this stand, but have not yet bought it. It is the Red Oak 30L stand:

http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+3731+16781&pcatid=16781

The retailer responded to an e-mail I sent and told me it is rated for both glass and acrylic tanks.

I decided not to get the canopy. If I decide the tank doesn't look good enough, I can always buy it later for a little more. Evaporation should not be a problem, or fish jumping.

Carpet Concern

I wrote the SeaClear manufacturer with some questions about putting it on carpet, but got no reply and could find no on-line documentation addressing carpet. I checked 3 other acrylic manufacturers' on-line documents and got mixed recommendations.

I'll make sure it is level, and may be asking shimmy questions if it is not.

Live Plants/Substrate

As far as substrate and live plants, I am still researching that. I have 25 pounds of blue gravel I bought before I realized what I was getting into. I also have some plastic plants and small caves. I will decide if to try to re-use them or if I should just start from scratch based on comments here. I will stick with freshwater.

Floor Strength

I am noy worried about my floor anymore being striong enough after what other posters here wrote and reading this:

http://badmanstropicalfish.com/articles/article28.html

"Aquariums up to 55 gallons can be placed almost anywhere without much worry at all."

My aquarium will be by the main internal load-bearing wall of my house on the first floor, perpendicular to the joists. So I see no worries here at all.

Filter/Heater/Etc

I decided to worry about the filter and heater after the aquarium arrives. I am getting too overloaded mentally otherwise. I'll then know the dimensions of the openings. I'll buy locally to make sure it'll fit before buying, and will re-read the comments here. I will buy one of those python things.

Fish/Cycling

Oh yeah, I plan on getting fish as well eventually! That'll be the fun part. My wife doesn't like them, but am thinking of starting with 2 Zebra Danios, then add one every few weeks. I plan to seriuosly under-stock the tank until I am better at this and know I can keep a maintenance schedule.

I've read five methods of cycling the tank:

1. Put one or two zebra danios in tank, but change frequently until cycled.

2. Use a dead shrimp. But I heard this gets smelly, especially for a living room tank.

3. Use amonia before fish, and let it cycle.

4. Use a agent with the bacteria people can buy.

5. Get bacteria from existing tanks. I don't kniow anyone locally.

Still deciding... but won't do #2, and will do #1 only if I can do it without overstressing the fish. Still researching.... for a 30 gallon tank, would 2 danios handle it reasonably well? or would I be cruel?

[Jspigs]

It is my opinion that using fish to cycle a tank is cruel. I would vote for number 3.

Also be sure to get a good liquid test kit that measures ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate (test strips are VERY unreliable and often give a false reading).

[odinthejd]

I would look on your craigslist and find a tank because you can get good tanks with everything for cheap!

[odinthejd]

oh you already bought.......check out this site for good fish stuff: www.kensfish.com

[Tonalea]

Fish/Cycling

Oh yeah, I plan on getting fish as well eventually! That'll be the fun part. My wife doesn't like them, but am thinking of starting with 2 Zebra Danios, then add one every few weeks. I plan to seriuosly under-stock the tank until I am better at this and know I can keep a maintenance schedule.

I've read five methods of cycling the tank:

1. Put one or two zebra danios in tank, but change frequently until cycled.

2. Use a dead shrimp. But I heard this gets smelly, especially for a living room tank.

3. Use amonia before fish, and let it cycle.

4. Use a agent with the bacteria people can buy.

5. Get bacteria from existing tanks. I don't kniow anyone locally.

Still deciding... but won't do #2, and will do #1 only if I can do it without overstressing the fish. Still researching.... for a 30 gallon tank, would 2 danios handle it reasonably well? or would I be cruel?

I did the dead shrimp in my 29 gall in my living room with absolutely no smell problems. And I live in a tiny house.

[RodInCALIFORNIA]

sounds great so far WELCOME to the addiction that will soon follow 1 tank leads to 17 LOL

[Michwol42795]

No need to buy a Python, you can spend a lot less money by buying a hose and a faucet adapter. It works the same way for about $30 less. I would also do live plants. I definitely wouldn't worry about the weight. I have a 75 on floor with no help and have had no problems to speak of. For filter I would just get a HOB, canisters are typically more expensive and even though it may say to change out the cartridges you really don't have too unless they're falling apart, you just need to clean them (with tank water). As for cycling, I would do method #3. I agree that Kensfish is a GREAT place to buy supplies.

[Naught]

Thanks everyone.

I just ordered the stand. So here is hoping it is as good as the picture looks! This is one thing I would have preferred to see in person.

[Michwol42795]

Good luck!

[Cluunox]

:welcome: Just a reminder up if you go with option 3 ammonia to cycle tank make sure the ammonia has no perfumes, surfactants or other additives. And don't forget a good water conditioner such as prime.

[Srenaeb]

Hi there,
you may also want to join a local fish keeping community and buy a sponge/get a bucket of cycled water/and old filter pad/etc from someone to help cycle =) I heard they need to be within a 30 minute drive if you're borrowing germs

With cycling fish, I personally would be traumatized if the first fishie that I bought home died from the stress, and I'm (technically) a "grown up", so...just saying, your kids may fall in love with Mr Cycles.
On the other hand fish death may be inevitable even with the best of care =P And it might be a good introductory point for life discussions too....

[Naught]

Thanks.

I've warned my 5 year old that we are new at this, and the fish may die. I won't use option #1 for cycling, so hopefully that'll increase our odds.

We talk back and forth:

"What happens if the fish get too hot or too cold?".. they die
"What happens if we overfeed them?" ... they die
"What happens if we underfeed them?" ... they die
"what happens if Daddy gets the chemicals wrong? ... they die
etc.

At this point, I think she'll be amazed if we actually keep one alive for more than a day!:dance2:

[Srenaeb]

LoL you're an awesome dad =)

I'm sure your fish will do fine, you've done way way way more homework than most beginning fish keepers =D remember to put up pictures as you put it all together!

[Turbosaurus]

I would post here and ask for media from established tanks from someone local to you. Go to the swap and stop section and put up a WTB -established media and your location, see if anyone within a couple miles of you will let you come pick some up. Its soooo much easier.

Bacteria colonies will survive MUCH longer than 1/2 hour. Just put in a bag so it doesn't dry out- its actually better if its not submerged in standing water.

I would also suggest getting a python (or DIY one at home depot- they sell faucet adapters and hose, probably ~ $15-$20 if price is an issue, just make sure you have the right parts to attach to your faucet)

With kids, I would def get some sort of top or cover. All kinds of stuff will end up in that tank. Kids like to "help". They like to help "feed" the fish, I've seen everything from fruity pebbles to m&ms. They like to help "decorate". They like to "share their toys" with the fish. My bosses 4 year old actually put his blackberry in the tank one day- I have no idea what her reasoning was.... but I am sure she had one.

As for safety- a tank is heavy and not easy to knock over or break. I have two 80 lb pitbulls who go tear-assing through the house chasing each other and playing. Many times they have knocked me right off my feet, but they have yet to knock over or damage a tank- though they have knocked into the 90 hard enough to slosh water out of the top (SCARRRRY). If the kids like to play baseball in the house- that's a different story....

[BadFishPa]

I have a 30 long in our living room and have a 3 and 6 yr old boys and 2 large dogs and they have yet to come close to knocking it over..We have even had rubber balls bounced off the glass,and toy arrows with those suction cups shot at it lol ..So far were doing good with it,tanks are pretty tough..So have fun and hope you really get enjoyment outta the new venture..

[Michwol42795]

I agree that you should get some established media, I would recommend you ask an LFS first, they're likely to let you (at least mine does) and it will probably be faster than looking around.

[Turbosaurus]

You want to be careful picking up media from the LFS... You never know what else might be in it as far as pathogens. Would def try to get from a fellow hobbiest with a clean healthy tanks first.

Also, if you seed the filter with established media, don't forget that bacteria needs to eat- it should go in at or near the same time as the fish.

[Naught]

Thanks everyone!

Gravel


i can also strongly suggest that you get some nice natural looking gravel and avoid florescent colors. kids may like them but in a year or so, you'll wish you'd have put something natural and if you get up the steam to switch it, it's a lot of hassle


This got me thinking, and my latest research tangent went in the direction of gravel.

Santa had bought my kids a 14 gallon glass tank for Christmas, with the plan to put it on an old TV stand. Once I started researching things, I decided to scrap it all and do it right from scratch. The TV stand wasn't safe, and a 14 gallon tank just did not have enough presence to look good in the living room. So I never actually had any fish yet, but I did mention in my original post I had a net!

I also have 25 pounds of blue gravel (see link below), a 50 watt heater, a back of tank filter for a 15 gallon tank, some 7 plastic plants and 2 small caves, and some food/chemicals.

http://www.petco.com/product/107325/PETCO-Blue-Jean-Mix-Aquarium-Gravel.aspx?CoreCat=OnSiteSearch

As I read more, it seems blue gravel is universally hated by serious hobbyists, even though it fills shelves in the fishstore. I guess it's all the newbies like me buying it.

So my question is if this just a style preference, or are there functional reasons as well? I am not trying to replicate nature (if I were, I wouldn't mix fish from different parts of the world and I'd let the fish eat each other). My kids liked the gaudy glow-in-the-dark plastic plants and fluorescent caves. I have to admit I did too.

So some specific questions:

1. Will the low light plants mentioned above in this thread survive in this gravel (will any plant)?

2. I read bottom dwelling cory catfish could hurt themselves on some gravels... would this be one of them?

I only have $14 invested in the gravel and I know it is very hard to change later...but I kinda liked it.

Stand

The stand is already shipped and should be here Wednesday! That was much faster than they promised.

I noticed the carpet where I planned to place it has a seam where the padding meets... the carpet is continuous but I can feel the padding is not. At first I was disappointed the stand did not continously touch the floor, but now it seems a good thing... I can straddle the seam. Once I get the stand, if it is not level still, I can move it to all on one side of the seam, but that would not be my prefered location for aesthetic reasons.

Lighting

It was very hard to get info on the acrylic aquariums, It seems SeaClear does not have good lighting. See the pictures and comments halfway down:

http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/tank-journals-photo-album/98935-46-bowfront-goldfish-grazing-project.html

I'll wait and see how mine looks, and if I will try plants or not.

[Michwol42795]

1. Those plants will be fine in the gravel you mentioned.
2. Cory Cats should be fine, they hurt themselves on sharp gravels, from the picture it doesn't look like it's too sharp in my opinion.
3. If you like blue gravel/glow in the dark decor and it works for you no reason not to use it. I agree though that eventually you'll probably wish you had gone for something else.
4. For lighting, if you go for the plants mentioned you shouldn't really have a problem with lighting, almost any light will work. You could try some CFLs.

[Naught]

Thanks. That is good news.

So it isn't my potential as a f i s h - keeper folks are worried about, but instead simply my artistic tastes. :):):):)

I asked my wife her opinion and she says the people here make a good point... can folks make some recommendations and then we'll decide. I have a local PetCo and WalMart and one local fish store.

[Naught]

This is really strange... whenever I type the word "***********", it shows up as all asterisks. See!?

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[Srenaeb]

Hi there,
I've beed told that one reason to use "natural" or any colour gravel is depending upon what kind of fish you have.
For example, some sites say neon tetras prefer dark gravel because that's what's in their native homes and the tiny, vulnerable fishies are wired to feel safer in it. And then some plecos are darker in "skin colour", and being bottom creatures they will want to "blend in" and camoflague a bit, so darker gravel may again make them feel safer. and here (http://www.tropicalfishandaquariums.com/tetras/CardinalTetra.asp) it says cardinal tetras also like a dark subtrate to "bring out their colour"; whether that means incontrast, or if it does something to them on a biological level, I don't know.

I had my first fishie, a betta, with neon green gravel for about 2 years before the colour started to burn my retina, so go ahead and put blue in =) It'll get everyone all excited for a good long while. Also marbles, beach pebbles, whatever you guys find on holiday trips can go in. Here's an excellent article on what kinds of rocks and shells can safely go in : http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/aquascaping/rocks.shtml

I've secretly always wanted a full pirate ship/treasure chest tank a la Finding Nemo. LOL

in summary, see what kind of subtrate your potential tank mates prefer, if they don't care, then pick whatever you like =D

[Michwol42795]

Really? ***********. I wonder why that is. Some fish may like different colors of gravel better, but I still don't think it's necessary. In my experience, they'd be fine.

[Naught]

Thanks. My wife and I have a few weeks to think about the gravel... I've been looking at a lot of photos for ideas.

Ammonia

I do have one question about ammonia and tank cycling. I was looking at the idea of buying 100% pure ammonia. It looks like 5 drops per ten gallons to start.

But according to the SeaClear website (and any site discussing anything acrylic):

"Do not use scouring powders on the aquarium or cleaners that have ammonia or solvents."

I am assuming 15 drops is such a small amount it will not impact the aquarium? After all, ammonia is naturally occuring.

[Michwol42795]

They might have been talking about for cleaning, as in after the fish are in the tank and you clean the glass with those substances. Which wouldn't be a good idea.

[ducatigirl]

I posted some threads on what substrate to use too, and I have decided on using 3 types. I am into planted tanks so i want my plants to grow and be beautiful like this tank that full on inspires me...
http://www.aquariacentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=214603&page=4

I am setting up a 310 ltr tank now, and have put river sand, natural gravel and pool filter sand in(but blended it in and decided it will go in next tank-as its white.
My fry live in bright green gravel, cos thats what I had first.
My other 150ltr community tank has natural gravel in it, look at my gallery.

I have not any complaints from any of my fish-lol

I was reading up on getting the sand bed to be a biological filter in itself, so am going deep sand bed with layers of sand and gravel.
Means less water changes etc, as it will work as a filter.
If you are not adding plants, disregard all that. :)

When you are new you want a fun tank with bright colours etc. I have not read anything on fish preferences for gravel, nor has any shop mentioned it, was just a customers own preference.
Anyone else?

[Srenaeb]

re: substrate --> I read on the internet, so obviously "it must be true" [/sarcasm]. =) Heck I'd be happy to know that they simply don't care, and then I can just buy them industrial silica sand for dirt cheap too ($5/80bs).

If I ever run an experiment putting patch of light gravel on one side and dark on the other, and see where the fish hang out, i'll let you know =P

[Naught]

The stand should arrive today. Now, I starting to think more about the fish...

OK, for a 30 gallon (36" long, 12" deep, 16" high) freshwater tank, initially without live plants but hopefully some low-light types later, what would be a good mix in the long run? I'd like to stock it on the light side to make maintenance easier.

Priorities:

1. Easy for beginner
2. Look good
3. Nothing too expensive until I know what I am doing, and I can buy locally

I'd like at least one schooling fish because I think they look cool all swimming together. I'd want at least some that hang out on the bottom. In general, I'd prefer a lot of smaller fish to a few large ones. And at the end I'd like at least 1 showpiece fish that really stands out.

My original plan was to start with 5 zebra danios (added very gradually after cycling), but my wife overuled that..she says they look boring to her. Maybe 3 cory catfish for the bottom?

This is my long term goal... short term, I plan to fo it very slowly over time, so I also have to think about when i add what fish.

[jaredc]

My original plan was to start with 5 zebra danios (added very gradually after cycling), but my wife overuled that..she says they look boring to her. Maybe 3 cory catfish for the bottom?

I wouldn't necessarily say the zebras are boring. More so hyperactive than anything. :) I have six zebras in my tank and they are constantly moving and swimming all over the tank. Plus they are a pretty hardy fish and I think a good choice to start off with (after properly cycling the tank of course).

[Michwol42795]

You could do
-5 Panda Cory Cats
-1 Dwarf Gourami (or betta)
-2 schools of 5 tetra of your choice
-5 Kuhli Loaches
-1 Bristlenose Pleco

[blue2fyre]

With that size tank you have a lot of options. Gouramis make a nice centerpiece. Also a single angelfish can be very elegant. With an angel you would have to get slightly bigger tetras.
1 angel
6-8 congo tetras
6 panda cories

I like above stocking except instead of doing 2 schools of fish I would do one large school.

Say
1 dwarf gourami
10 ember tetras
6 cories of some type

If you are feeling adventurous then you could have a pair of rams or apistos instead of the gourami. Both are very nice looking cichlids.

If not some fancy guppies in place of the gourami would be nice.

[Michwol42795]

The problem with the rams is that if you get Blue Rams then you would have to do a lot more maintenance than what it sounded like you wanted to do.

[blue2fyre]

There are other rams out there. I know blue rams are not very hardy. I just figured I would throw it out there. They are nice looking.

I also forgot to mention the ever hardy mollies, and platies. They are nice fish that get along with everyone and seem to be able to survive anything.

[Michwol42795]

Yah, I know I was just saying if he gets a ram it'd be better to stay away from the GBRs. If you're going to get livebearers I'd leave Mollies to be my last choice. There are a lot of opinions out there about them, personally I think they're a lot more sensitive than platies, guppies, swordtails, etc. They're still pretty hardy though if you provide good conditions.

[blue2fyre]

Really?

Wow I've always considered mollies to be the hardiest fish out there. I swear they could live in sewage.

[Michwol42795]

Yah, I've heard everything from extremely sensitive to ridiculously hardy on mollies! From what I've seen, I've seen more disease and deaths from mollies, who knows.

[blue2fyre]

Huh

Mollies were the fish that always survived all my newbie mistakes. :)

[Naught]

I agree about zebra danios. I may need to over-rule my wife on that one.

Oh, I got the stand today. It had some minor damage, but otherwise looks fantastic... the best looking stand I have seen so far. The aquarium will be just the right size for the spot. The base does continuously touch the floor in the back, and most of the front, so it'll spread the load. I'll keep it away from that seam in the carpet. I put that 14 gallon tank on it just to see, and it is at least right now perfectly level length-wise, and 1/16" off over ~8" depthwise. How close will I need to get it when I go final?

But one thing is disturbing me that I am trying to contact the manufacturer about. There is a slight gap between most points where it connects to the base and where it connects to the top surface. I think the pre-assembled side parts were not alligned correctly by the manufacturer. So no single vertical piece touches both the base and the top... so all the force seems to be shear force through some hinges. I took some photos and will ask them about it.

[Naught]

Thanks for the stocking suggestions... that's the fun part.

I'll research them some more. I've got plenty of time, but it's nice to think about.

Our family's been Googling the suggestions above.. the Kuhli Loach sure got a reaction! Looks like bottom feeders are going to be the tough ones to win my wife's heart.

I'd be all psyched right now because my new stand looks so good, except for the way there are gaps after I assembled it. The tank will be a perfect size for the place it will be.

[blue2fyre]

The thing about kuhli loaches is they need an established tank. I would suggest that they be the last thing you add if you choose to get some :)

[Srenaeb]

kuhli loaches have always kind of freaked me out

bettas are really nice and super pretty and not actually aggressive little guys =)
your wife may find one of them + danios a good compromise?
Also super easy to keep alive.

[Michwol42795]

Well most bettas are nice, some are mean though! Make sure you get a nice one and it should be fine. With kuhlis you also want to make sure they can burrow in the substrate pretty good (their favorite is sand).

[grav]

Okay some of you are scaring me on the acrylic tanks. I'm ready to plunk down 250.00 on a Sea Clear 46g Bow front. My kids are out of the house and I don't have any pets except for my fish in my 55g tank, so no worries there. Could someone maybe define "easy to scratch." I mean am I going to scratch it simply by putting sand or gravel in the tank? How do the dedicated acrylic cleaners do?

[whyzee250]

I would definitely get that stand issue taken care of. If it is a defect you are putting your first rule (kids safety) at a possible risk.
As always, keep us updated.

[Michwol42795]

I agree, you can never be too safe. I would check that out.

[Naught]

Here is someone's experience with that 46 bowfront tank:

http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/tank-journals-photo-album/98935-46-bowfront-goldfish-grazing-project.html

Other than the light, he seemed to like it. I did not get my 30 gallon yet.

I e-mailed the manufacturer about the stand, but no reply yet. I sent them a photo with a bunch of playing cards in the gaps so they can tell what I was talking about. The right-front corner has a gap 4 playing cards deep between the top wood platform and the vertical corner support, so I don't see how it could help support weight.

I hope they respond soon because I don't want the project delayed...my work is going to get busy soon.

[Naught]

I just wanted to give everyone here an update on the stand....

It looks like I am dealing with some top-notch companies here.

Drs Foster & smith got the stand to me in less than 3 days, and offered me compensation right away when they heard it had some minor damage. I told them to wait until I heard from United Pet Group (Marineland) about my safety concern.

United Pet Group had me send them some photos of my concern. They responded they would test a new stand there and then send it to me. It'll take a few weeks, but I'd rather wait and do it right. I like that they will test it there first so I will be assured I won't get another stand with the same problem. Wow!

(By the way, I did a reality check with my wife and she had the same concern)

[Naught]

Hi there,
you may also want to join a local fish keeping community and buy a sponge/get a bucket of cycled water/and old filter pad/etc from someone to help cycle =) I heard they need to be within a 30 minute drive if you're borrowing germs


I found out two of my neighbors have fish tanks.

[Michwol42795]

It's great that the companies responded so positively! Are you going to get some established media from your neighbors?

[67chevelle]

Looks like bottom feeders are going to be the tough ones to win my wife's heart.

Get some panda corydora.Great bottom feeders and they are cute.

Not sure if you made your final decision on the substrate,but if you want natural gravel,go to a home improvement store and get a bag or 2 of pea gravel.It's the same thing as the stuff in any pet store,and cost about $5 for 25 pounds.You just need to rinse it A LOT before putting it in your tank.

BTW,I'm not sure if anyone else will admit it,but I had a blue gravel 30 gallon for a couple years and loved it.I recently changed it to black gravel and am thinking of switching back. I bet most of us have had blue gravel at one time ;)

[Michwol42795]

Get some panda corydora.Great bottom feeders and they are cute.

Not sure if you made your final decision on the substrate,but if you want natural gravel,go to a home improvement store and get a bag or 2 of pea gravel.It's the same thing as the stuff in any pet store,and cost about $5 for 25 pounds.You just need to rinse it A LOT before putting it in your tank.

BTW,I'm not sure if anyone else will admit it,but I had a blue gravel 30 gallon for a couple years and loved it.I recently changed it to black gravel and am thinking of switching back. I bet most of us have had blue gravel at one time ;)

Believe it or not I've never had blue gravel, but substrate depends on personal preference :).

[Naught]

We googled panda corydora, and my wife liked how they looked.

[Naught]

My new stand arrived today! This one assembled perfectly with no gaps. The top also seems level. For the old stand, if I put a marble on it, it would roll right off, no matter how the stand was oriented on the floor. For the new stand, the marble does not roll, or hardly rolls. I give Marineland and Dr F&S 100 percent each on customer service.

They never asked for the old stand back, so think I have a nice matching house plant holder now. It looks nice, but I will never allow it to hold an aquarium.

So now, I just need to get my tank. No news on shipment date yet... it should have arrived by now.

I did take a trip to Petco and my LFS. Those panda cory that people recommended really are cute in person.

OK, brace yourself... After looking at about 50+ tanks, I decided I am going to stick with the "blue jean" gravel. The white gravel with black background looks the best, but with the blue background like mine will be i do like the blue jean gravel.

[BubbleE1]

my 29g is on carpet and its just fine.

[USMC2171]

Ive had a 25, 30, 55, 60 hex, 75, 90, and a 110 on carpet and never had a problem. My kids are 12, 2.5, and 6 mo., old never had any worries of pulling over or pushing them. The rug and foam will compress, and not ever really come back so make sure you place it in a good spot. Good luck

[Naught]

Thanks. I think the carpet will be fine.. it's not plush. I am making sure the stand does not sit where there is a seam in the padding, and level right now (but no tank yet).

*** *** ***

I was at PETCO last night, and it was a very slow night because of the weather. The manager and I had a 30 minute chat. One thing he brought up as a possibility are Red Wag Platies... I think they looked nice and he said they are good for beginners. He suggested they breed easily, and eventually the tank will start to stock itself. :) Anyone ever have those?

[Michwol42795]

Red Wag Platies are nice, they'd be a cool aquarium addition. If you want the fry to survive you need a lot of hiding places though, but fish are really a preference. If you like them then they'd be good.

[Naught]

Red Wag Platies are nice, they'd be a cool aquarium addition. If you want the fry to survive you need a lot of hiding places though, but fish are really a preference. If you like them then they'd be good.

I like how they look. Guppies also caught my eye... Guppies seem very similar from what I have been reading (livebearers, males hound the females for sex so need more females, hardy, a bit high on waste producing side).

I observed guppies at the PETCO... they REALLY liked to just go to the top and swim against the filter current.

The family is going to a LFS tonight that is a bit further away but has more types of fish... just to see what everyone likes.

[Naught]

Just an update...

No aquarium yet or any news at all on delivery date, 25 days after ordering. PETCO.COM has miserable customer service.... ignored 3 e-mails and did not follow-up on a phone call as promised. I just called again. They blamed the manufacturer.

The kids refuse to go to fish stores to look at fish anymore, considering we have nothing to put them in.

The local PETCO store is great... the on-line store, not so much.

[Michwol42795]

Sorry :(, I had the same problem with ordering a tank from petco.com, I had to talk to the manager at a local Petco a couple times but eventually they got it in. I told the manager about it in person, she got it all straightened out for me.

[Naught]

Good news! The tank arrives Tuesday! I'll be in New Orleans until Thursday though.

I made a decision about stocking the tank, once it's cycled (I bought the 2 bacteria liquid.. but cannot find pure no-additive ammonia yet).


Drum roll please......


I decided to make it a guppy tank! I have been researching them like crazy, and have a friend who used to really be into them. I think they are one of the prettiest fish, and are good for beginners.




I know the downsides of guppies:
Many other fish pick on them, so will be limitted on other fish
They like a little salt some other fish don't (my friend says they'll do OK with no salt though)
They easily over-populate (saw some funny YouTube videos on this). Still researching how to best control it (assuming my fish live).
I will research bottom dwellers more down the line. But to me, guppies seem to have so much variety I am fine with almost all guppies.

I'll try to post a photo once I get things set up. And yes, I decided to stick with the blue jean gravel. I bought a hang-on-tank filter rated for 30-60 gallons, so as long as it fits in the acrylic slots I should be OK. If not, I bought it locally in case a return is needed. It holds two carbon filters (one on each side) so I think I'll replace them on an alternating schedule.

One thing that really bothered me about the acrylic tank was the lack of information on them when I researched it... so I plan to post a lot of photos showing opening sizes, etc.

[Jspigs]

Try Ace Hardware if there is one near you.

Ace Hardware sells a 10% ammonia solution with no harmful additives.

EDIT: The ammonia is called "Ace janitorial strength" or something like that.

[Michwol42795]

Yes, Ace Hardware is where I found mine. By they way, Guppys should be fine without salt unless your water is really really soft. You could easily have some Cory Cats, as well as a pair of Honey Gourami (or something similar). Unless you have a lot of fry hiding spots, your tank shouldn't overpopulate with this setup.

[WeedCali]

yeah i have my guppies without salt and theyre fine. my sister does too and they are healthy as could be :)

[Naught]

The aquarium came when I was on my business trip! I got home last night at 12:30 AM but was so excited I literally stayed up most of the night starting to set it up.

I'll post pictures later.

The acrylic sure does look a lot nicer than glass tank. The back slot was just the right size for the 30-60 gallon hang-on-back filter I bought (but I did have to cut the water intake tube, which was hitting the bottom).

One corner is 3/16" higher that the opposite corner, so I think that is pretty close to level. Sound close enough? The two corners are 38" apart. The paperwork that came with it had a lot of warnings, but none said the tank had to be level (like the glass aquarium's did).

As far as the ammonia, Google says there is an Ace Hardware is 8 miles away.. I'll call first.

My water looks a bit blue... I hope it isn't because I didn't rinse the last 5 pound bag of gravel enough...

[Troycool]

cant wait to see the pics of the long awaited tank

[Naught]

One thing that really bugged me was the lack of pictures... didn't even know the size of the openings, light length, etc. So here they are:

http://img109.imageshack.us/img109/5020/p1080655k.jpg (http://img109.imageshack.us/i/p1080655k.jpg/)

[Naught]

http://img715.imageshack.us/img715/1957/p1080656.jpg (http://img715.imageshack.us/i/p1080656.jpg/)

[Naught]

I was surprised.. the light fixture just slides along the top anywhere you want it. It's kindof nice actually... assume that's where I'll feed the fish.

[Naught]

Here is the stand with the doors open. Notice the top doors open down, not pulled out.

http://img715.imageshack.us/img715/918/p1080658.jpg (http://img715.imageshack.us/i/p1080658.jpg/)

[Troycool]

nice, well now that you have your tank, what about its inhabitants? have you decided what to get?

[Naught]

nice, well now that you have your tank, what about its inhabitants? have you decided what to get?

Yes, it's going to be a guppy tank with cory cats or cory panda, and some centerpiece fish I am still deciding. I plan to build it up slowly.

[Naught]

Oh, the fixture holds one 20W flourescent bulb. The intructions do not say what length it is supposed to be, but the supports are 23 1/2 inches apart, so I assume that it holds 24" bulbs?

[Michwol42795]

The blue hue might be because of the unwashed gravel, but it's nothing a few water changes can't fix.

[Naught]

The light works... it took a 24" "T-8'" bulb. The store had a buy one, get one sale, so I have a spare. One of the two won't stop flickering, so I'll get a replacement.

The blue seems to have settled some already.

I got a Aqueon 150 Watt heater that seems to be working fine, and a thermometer.

Here it was last night. The decorations are temporary.

http://img130.imageshack.us/img130/16/seaclear30gallon.jpg (http://img130.imageshack.us/i/seaclear30gallon.jpg/)

[Troycool]

a cory panda? nice choice

[Naught]

I think I made my first two newbie mistakes already.

I used this stuff thinking it was to remove the chlorine... I didn't notice that it also neutralizes ammonia...

http://www.petco.com/product/102599/Aqueon-Water-Conditioner.aspx

I also misread the instructions and put 5X the amount I supposed to put in.

I have had fish flakes in the tank decaying for 1.5 days now.... I guess any ammonia they make isn't going to be feeding the bacteria. Can the bacteria still feed on "neutralized" ammonia, whatever that means?

What now?

[Jspigs]

I think I made my first two newbie mistakes already.

I used this stuff thinking it was to remove the chlorine... I didn't notice that it also neutralizes ammonia...

http://www.petco.com/product/102599/Aqueon-Water-Conditioner.aspx

I also misread the instructions and put 5X the amount I supposed to put in.

I have had fish flakes in the tank decaying for 1.5 days now.... I guess any ammonia they make isn't going to be feeding the bacteria. Can the bacteria still feed on "neutralized" ammonia, whatever that means?

What now?

Most products that neutralize ammonia transform ammonia into a less toxic form.

This less toxic form of ammonia can still be fed on by bacteria.

EDIT: Once that water conditioner runs out I would get a bottle of Prime. Prime neutralizes chlorine and chloramine and detoxifies ammonia and nitrite while still allowing them to be fed on by bacteria. Prime also neutralizes nitrate.
Prime also is very concentrated, one 250 ml bottle treats 2500 gallons.

But I am getting off topic.

[Naught]

That's good news!

After I posted my questions, I was Googling and saw that Prime was OK for the initial cycling. So that gave me hope the Aqueon I used would be OK as well.

(it's not off topic...I was very interested)

About the using 5X as much by accident... any harm, or just wasted money? or should I start changing some water to dilute it? I don't have any fish yet (but my 3 year old likes us "pretending" to feed the fish when I put the flakes in).

Oh, I did buy two live plants.. they were only $1.24 each, so no loss if they die.

[Michwol42795]

The bacteria should be fine, I recommend Prime as well by the way. Using that much shouldn't harm anything, you should be fine to carry on as normal (but use less water conditioner in the future).

[Naught]

Thanks for the great advice. How did people survive before the Internet?

[Naught]

The light works... it took a 24" "T-8'" bulb. The store had a buy one, get one sale, so I have a spare. One of the two won't stop flickering, so I'll get a replacement.





CASCO just called me (I called them last week) and told me it takes a 24" T-12 20 watt bulb. A T-8 bulb voids the warranty.

I am really mad! I did hours and hours of research, and am now out $13 because they cannot even tell the customer something as simple as what lightbulb it takes. They must think customers are psychic. Their documentation only says "20 watt", nothing else.

ABSOLUTELY DISGRACEFUL!

On a plus side, the rep said 3/16" off level corner to corner is no problem at all.