Any advice or ideas for my tank?

[jb_lyndon]

Ok so the plan for our 25G is to eventually have:

12 Neons
10 Harlequin Rasboras
2 Dwarf Gouramis
4 Otos
1 Weather Loach
and Maybe a few Algae Eating Shrimp.

My girlfriend REALLY wants a weather loach and I think they're cool too, but I don't know if he will look right with the other relatively small fish. I'm afraid he'll "steal the spotlight" from the others. I believe the adult size in most aquariums is about 5 - 8" so I'm thinking he might throw off the aesthetic balance of the tank. What do you think?

Oh and please, does anybody have any suggestions for a peaceful (centerpiece) fish that is bigger than the 2" Dwarf Gouramis and will be compatible with them and the others?

I'd really appreciate any suggestions at all, so if anybody could help me out I'd be very thankful.

[~*LuvMyKribs*~]

Way too many fish! it will cause problems if you overstock.

I think the selection is good, i would do maybe 5 tetras and 7 harlequins or vice versa. 2 dwarf gouramies- fine. 4 ottos- maybe try 2 or 3 i don't know how big they get. You shouldn't have a fish that gets much bigger than 3-4" in a 25g.

I dont know what a weather loach is and you would have to research it. Don't get anything else- a fish that will get larger than the gouramies will be too big for the tank.

Start of with that, and maybe in the future add something else if everything works out.

I'm sure your going to research cycling the tank and not just dump all the fish in, right? :)

[LMOUTHBASS]

rams (gold or blue) woul be an awesome centerpiece and stay small and are gorgeous!!!

[jb_lyndon]

LuvMyKribs here's a link to check out some Weather Loaches, they are pretty wicked fish (wicked awesome, not wicked evil ;) )but hideously ugly, so ugly in fact that they are kind of endearing:

http://www.loaches.com/species_pages/wloach.html

Oh and by the way otos are tiny little guys reaching a size of 1 - 1.5" Max.
I've heard that they have loads of character and are "a very curious and unafraid fish."

I'm not sure what I've listed is "Way too many fish!", maybe a few too many?, but I'm not going to argue as I'm grateful for the advice and have little to no experience, just relying on some other advice and what I've researched is all. Here's a neat little stocking density calculator:
http://www.practicalfishkeeping.co.uk/pfk/pages/stocking_density_calculator.php
I don't know how acurate this is and I know it's just a guideline and depends on fish girth and overall size and waste production etc, but according to it I'm limited to 43" of fish built up gradually over time. That's probably too many but I desperatley want to believe the results.

I'm not thinking about some GIANT centerpiece fish, just looking for advice on something a little bigger than the dwarf gouramis, maybe a 3 - 4" fish is all. And of course I'll slim down my expectations a little and sacrifice some prospective acquisitions to make room for a slightly larger centerpiece to accompany the dwarf gouramis.

Any suggestions, ideas, advice, opinions?

[kveeti]

Try this site for figuring out your fish capacity. It's not as easy as just being able to plug in numbers, but I think it's pretty good:
http://www.vsrsystems.com/kdodds/fish/beginnersFW.htm

[adblair]

43" of fish in a 25 g?!?!?! I think I'll faint... :shake:

I don't know about that calculator, for beginners, like me and you, try to stick to the old 1" of fish per gallon rule. And keep in mind how big the fish will be when they mature which is usually a good bit larger than when you buy them.....

And please cycle the tank....:)

[OrionGirl]

43 inches of fish in a 29 is ridiculously overstocked, sorry. Even with the awful and false myth of one inch per gallon, it's too much. I have less than that in my fully stocked 55.

I would eliminate one of the schools completely. They will compete for the same area of the water column, and mix--you won't get 2 distinct schools. A 29 is almost too small to be able to appreciate the schooling activity--better than a 10, but still on the small side. With 2 schools, you'd lose it completely.

For the weather loach--I would not keep one in a 29. Mine is incredibly active--always swimming around, pacing the 55. Frequently surfaces, then dives, blows bubbles; very, very active fish. In a small tank, I think it would be the equivalent of freaked out canary in a bitty box.

[jb_lyndon]

Originally posted by OrionGirl
ridiculously overstocked

Well I guess I'm just a freakin' idiot then.
Thanks a Bunch :sick:

[TKOS]

Why not try a set of 3-4 khulie loaches instead of the weather loach. Same cool eel like look but they stay small and slim.

The dwraf gouramis will probably get closer to 3 inches in size. I thought they would stay smaller but mine are quite big. Make sure there are lots of hiding spots as these guys can get territorial. If you liek the look of rams I would not add the gouramis as well.

For now I woulds suggest sticking with the idea of 1 schooling fish and making that school as large as is possible for that tank size. You will find that the rasboras are a much hardier fish than the neons which tend to die very easy. And it is quite true that tetras and rasboras and even barbs are known to school together so you end up with a mixture of fish. Plus after a while fish stop school anyway when they learn how safe the environment is so it just becomes a bunch of tiny groups.

I suggest getting a ammonia and nitrite test kit at the very least. And in the beginning test every day. If either of these levels start to get near 1ppm then do a water change to bring levels back down (and use dechlorinator of course).

[OrionGirl]

I made no mention of anyone being an idiot. Nor would I, thank you.

[adblair]

I don't think you are an idiot. You were only going on advice that you thought you could trust because it came from an "expert" - I would have done the same thing if I had been wise enough to check on the computer before starting my tank. BUT since I wasn't, I put a ridiculous amount of fish in to start just because they all fit and I couldn't make up my mind... I also didn't cycle.:eeek: Needless to say everything died except a few neons.:sad You should feel great because you knew enough to ask for advice and by doing so saved yourself time, money, and lots of headaches from trying to keep up with an overstocked aquarium - not to mention the little fishy casualties. We're all here to help, and no one will think you are an idiot for asking questions, because most of us have all made the same mistakes at one time or another. :)

[Uncle Bete]

hi jb_lyndon,
I'm assumeing the 25gal. is 24" long, right?
with that here's my thought's...

I'd say maybe 7 neon's, 5 or 6 Rasbora's, the 2 gouramis (which I think will turn into the center peice your looking for) 4 Oto's sounds fine[but might wait till you see some algae(food) growing], And I'd probably save the weather loach for a diff. (larger) tank, and instead add a few cory's. or khulis that were mentioned.

I like to look not only at the inches the fish will get, but more of the "MASS".

Lets take for example, 2 people with 25 gal. tank's.

Person A has 10 neons. We can look at that as 1 1/4" per fish. That comes out to around 12 1/2" of fish.

Person B has an Oscar. We can look at this as 12 1/2".

Who's got problems?
A.
B.
or C. no one, they both have only 1/2" per gal of fish!

ya'all have a nice day,
Uncle Bete

[jb_lyndon]

Actually my 25G is 30"(L) X 13"(W) X 16"(H).
Uncle Bete... of course B... but that's my whole point, all of the fish that we had planned to aquire (although possibly too many) are small slender fish without a lot of girth or "MASS" even the Gouramis although "tall" are relatively thin. We're pretty disappointed about the weather loach, I read somewhere that the minimum tank size for them is 20g and since ours is 25g and 30" long I'm still hoping that you guys will tell me that although you might not recommend it that one wouldn't be a cruel and catastrophic disaster, because unfortunately I don't see us getting a bigger tank anytime soon :(

Adblair... I was convinced that I was a complete moron. Thanks for the reasurance that in in fact I'm only partially retarded ;) Just Kidding, I really do appreciate it.

I just feel a little disappointed with the prospect of a tank with just neons, dwarf gouramis, otos, and elusive kuhlis. And to top it all off, the other day I saw a 55g kit for $50 more than we paid for our 25g and now I'm kicking myself in the ***!!! :mad: By the way, can anybody tell me about the behaviour differences between weather loaches and kuhlis? I understand that kuhlis are pretty inactive and hide a lot.

Sencerely,
Lobotomized and Loving everybody.

[jb_lyndon]

OrionGirl

Ooops...I almost forgot...
sorry OG I didn't mean to suggest that you were directly calling me an idiot. Just realising by everyone's advice that unfortunately it seems that I am :(
And I'm just so disappointed and frustrated that all our ideas which at the time seemed sensable and well researched are just plain stupid. Hope you understand the frustration I'm feeling in our unexpected limitations. Should have researched before impulsively buying a 25g... thought the size was adequate when LFS guy said "about 2 inches of fish per gallon" but now find out that 25g can't live up to our expectations :(

[Aquarius0015]

Did you save your receipt?

[OrionGirl]

NP, just wanted to make sure you knew I did not think you were an idiot. There are lots of myths and bad advice out there, it's easy to believe them.

For the weather loach--you will need to have a very secure lid, that fully covers the tank. Weather loaches are well known jumpers, and in a small tank that would be my primary concern. They do get big! Mine is about 8 inches right now. They are much different the kuhli loaches, but kuhli's are not all hiders. I have a plethora of them, and I see them all the time. They all have hiding places, and feel secure enough that they will come out and swim around any time of day. A group of them--4-5--is much more active and social than just a pair, or even three. I really like them. Another fish you may like are gold dojos--an albino version of the weather loach. I'm not sure if they get to the same size as the weather loaches--and can't find anything that indicates normal adult size for these fish.

[Uncle Bete]

After further review! And more surface area than was figured in on my first post.

Here's a couple of option's I'd like to throw out, using the fish you'd like to have.

1.
1 - Weather Loach
7 - Rasboras
2 - Dwarf Gouramis
4 - Oto's (save for last as stated before)
O - Neons - Because they do hang out around the bottom where the Loach will be. Just doen't look like a good senario? But you can always try it. I don't have much experience with weather loaches, so I don't know if it would eat'em or just scare'em to death?

2.
8 (give or take 1) - Neons
7 - Rasboras ( I have seen then one time in a store somewhere around 2 1/2" but mine never got close to that big in a 75 gal.)
2 - Dwarf Gouramis
4 - Oto's (save for last)
6 - Khuli Loaches or 3 - 4 Cory's

This will be what I'd consider maxed out!
If your consistent/diligent with maintenance you should be ok.

Hummm looking back through the post's real quick I didn't notice what you have for filtration?

Uhhhhh, What do you have?

[~*LuvMyKribs*~]

I wouldn't at all get frustrated. Yeah, you can't fill up your tank like you thought you could, but its not the end of the world. There are many many fish you can keep happily in a 25g, that are beautiful and entertaining.

I have a 20 gal and its gorgeous. I have danios, rasboars, an angel, a bolivian ram, cories, a clown loach, and a snail. (Also 2 kribs that are temporary at the moment).

My tank is brinking on being overstocked. But i keep up with water changes and have it heavily planted. Everyone is happy and has lived long so far.

It not only depends on how many inches of fish, but what type of fish these are and what level of the aquarium they inhabit. Getting good at this takes time and practice and for a beginner i think you are on the right track.

You've done the right thing by asking first. Now, what i would be most concerned with first is setting up your tank and cycling it before thinking of adding any fish. Get this done- it will give you a month to ponder over exactly what fish you'd like to see calling this thier home, then decide at the time what fish you want to add. Add one type at a time maybe- if you really want neons add 7 neons and see what they look like the in tank. Then try to envision some other fishes swimming with them and get next what you think will go best.

That's the way i've always done it- and it will avoid the 'adding too much too fast' routine.

:)
Diana

[MelJr]

Back when I was a kid (many moons ago). I used to buy black and yellow striped loaches that swam more like a snake. I haven't seen any of these since I got the aquarium bug again. They didn't get very big. I remember they liked to hide most of the time. They were neat fish to have.

[~*LuvMyKribs*~]

Khuli loaches. :p

[MelJr]

Thanks Luv. Yep that was what they were, I looked under that name on fishbase.org. Will have to ask for them next time I'm in a lfs.

[TKOS]

If you like being active with your tank then another option for making it seem full is getting live plants. This can require some extra work depending on the plants chosen but it really fills out a tank.