Got plants, still getting algae...

[kreesdqban]

I recently updated my lighting from a single 15w fluorescent fixture to two 50w cfl's on my 44 gal tank so that I could start with real plants. Right now I have 1 wideliv java fern, 3 sags, and 2 anubias nana and am still having problem with algae...

I'm thinking about adding CO2 but don't want to rush into it after hearing of planted tanks that have success not using it... I just started dosing with Flourish and will be buying KNO3 and KH2SO4 soon.

For the most part its green carpet algae with some brow algae on rocks and glass.

[tanker]

You need more then those "slow growers" to get rid of algae. You need fast growers---Stem plants are good ideas (Hygro, ect).

[ferrettim]

I actually never had algae until i started dosing with excel and i've used mostly "slow growers" in my tanks. i recently added hygros to my gourami tank and that cleared up the buildup of algae in my canister tubing, but the hair algae is getting out of control. I will be adding more CO2 to see if that does the trick and may get away from the excel for a while.

[kreesdqban]

So what are more fast growers that are good with no CO2 and my lighting??

[tanker]

Water Wisteria, Ludwigia, Hygro, Water Sprite, ect.

[dundadundun]

with your light... almost anything.

you'll want to pack the tank full of plants and provide some shade for those slower growers before they become algae ridden. definitely dose everything you can, may need to or can't measure. ei helps and knowing your gh can help avoid some issues also.

the diatoms are probably unavoidable but should go away with time.

get yourself some floaters if you can. they'll help tune down that light and utilize co2 from the atmosphere so they won't be limited to what's in the tank. that should buy you some time while deciding what else to put in the tank. an amazon sword might be something to consider.

you may want to root feed those sags too.

[kreesdqban]

I'll buy some NPK soon and start dosing but for now I'll probably look into getting some hygros or swords. I just ordered some christmas moss for really cheap also.

Flourish tabs are also under consideration.

Thanks!

[kreesdqban]

How do I know if a plant is fast growing? Is moss??

[timwag2001]

no moss isn't. you want a stem plant. like mentioned up above HYGRO! stuff grows like crazy. remember that most algae issues are from lack of nutrients so you need to make sure you have enough of them all.

also... certain fish will eat that stuff up like crazy. brown algae (diatoms ) will be eaten by ottos, which are all around good algae eaters..

do you have any pics? green carpet algae sounds more like bga (blue green algae which isn't algae, its bacteria). if it's bga you might want to consider using maracyn

[dundadundun]

if it's bga (cyanobacteria) you might want to consider dosing nitrates first. then you can run the gambit doing blackouts, cleaning filters, gravel vac'ing, increasing circulation and last resort medicating with either direct excel doses, direct dosing h2o2 and finally hitting it with erythromycin. the antibiotics are a last resort though. it doesn't address the underlying issue, can kill off beneficial bacteria, is unnecessarily medicating your fish...

look up the root tab recipe by riiz in the sticky in the planted section. they're a lot better and cheaper than anything else i've tried.

www.aquariumfertilizer.com ... dry ferts work better and last longer.

[tekonus]

How long do you leave your lights on?

[kreesdqban]

no moss isn't. you want a stem plant. like mentioned up above HYGRO! stuff grows like crazy. remember that most algae issues are from lack of nutrients so you need to make sure you have enough of them all.

also... certain fish will eat that stuff up like crazy. brown algae (diatoms ) will be eaten by ottos, which are all around good algae eaters..

do you have any pics? green carpet algae sounds more like bga (blue green algae which isn't algae, its bacteria). if it's bga you might want to consider using maracyn

I'll look into getting some ottos and maybe a hygro or 2 next time i go to the LFS. I'll put pics up as soon as i can.


if it's bga (cyanobacteria) you might want to consider dosing nitrates first. then you can run the gambit doing blackouts, cleaning filters, gravel vac'ing, increasing circulation and last resort medicating with either direct excel doses, direct dosing h2o2 and finally hitting it with erythromycin. the antibiotics are a last resort though. it doesn't address the underlying issue, can kill off beneficial bacteria, is unnecessarily medicating your fish...

look up the root tab recipe by riiz in the sticky in the planted section. they're a lot better and cheaper than anything else i've tried.

www.aquariumfertilizer.com (http://www.aquariumfertilizer.com) ... dry ferts work better and last longer.

Yeah, I want to avoid medicating unless I really have to... and I'll definitely check out that root tab recipe, I was planning on buying dry ferts from aquariumfertilizer.com in the near future. For now I just dosing with Flourish.

EDIT: I have my lights on for 10 hours

[tekonus]

I have my lights on for 10 hours

That's why you have algae, IMO. There is no reason to have that much light on for that long. Think about it, in the wild do you think those plants get that intense light all day long? No, the sun isn't always in the same spot in the sky. (well, technically yes it is... but you get my point.)

[kreesdqban]

Will do!

[dundadundun]

my lights stay on for up to 15 hours. no algae! not saying it can't help... but something to think about.

do not depend on fish to solve a problem... more waste = more problems.

[ghengis]

With that sort of lighting (particularly with such a sudden, dramatic leap from 15w) and no CO2, you are almost guarenteed to have issues with algae. You need to more closely match the CO2 content in your tank to the light you are providing...having 15w and no CO2 (aside from that which the fish give off) would work great, and obviously has done for you, but if you boost one area, you need to boost the other areas...CO2, fertz, etc.

To put it another way...you can't put a massive motor in your car, without beefing the clutch, gearbox, diff etc. It all needs to equal out, or something is gonna give...same story with your tank.

[kreesdqban]

So i have lighting done (just need to get the right schedule), I'm starting ferts (currently using Flourish, will soon use NKP and root tabs), and lastly would be CO2. For now I will try and get (as suggested) more plants, and specifiaclly faster growing plants such as Hygros.

We'll see how it all works out. Thanks everybody for your help.

[tekonus]

my lights stay on for up to 15 hours. no algae! not saying it can't help... but something to think about.

do not depend on fish to solve a problem... more waste = more problems.

How tall is your tank and how much lighting do you have? If you have a taller tank with a lower wattage of light you will not have the same problems... My friend and I have the same 40watt light strip from the same store with the same bulb in them, mine on my 33g which is only 13" tall and his on a 55g which is over 20" tall. My plants get algae a heck of a lot easier from the same amount of lighting, as it penetrates more.

[ghengis]

But I bet you have better plant growth also, yeah...?

It's all swings and roundabouts, IMO.

[tekonus]

But I bet you have better plant growth also, yeah...?

It's all swings and roundabouts, IMO.

Yes, I do have better plant growth in the shallower tank, but it is a double-edged sword. I have to trim things like my swords down more often cause they look like crap all overgrown in a shallow tank.

[dundadundun]

going by your height and lighting assumptions i should never have anything but algae surviving in my tank (the one in question). assuming that co2 is necessary at that point my plants should all be dead too... from algae overgrowth. my tank is 36" x 18" by MAX 10" deep with 52 watts cfl and t8 over it. all 6500k and 5500k. i use an air pump to raise my co2 levels. there are many ways to skin a cat... some easier than others.

yet still my tank (by your calculations too low in co2 and photoperiod way too long) HAS NO ALGAE ANYWHERE!

i fixed all my issues with a floater, air pump for co2 addition, and dosing kh2po4 and kno3. all is absolutely well and dandy.

btw floaters don't need co2 since they can get it from the air above and therefore can help balance a tank pretty well by blocking light to plants that may be getting too much.

kreesdqban... look into florin axis and/or flourish excel for carbon if you plan on adding it. fluctuating co2 and or dialing it in just right little by little can be more headache than it's worth. if you do everything right and your co2 fluctuates you'll have just as many issues if not more than you do now. it's best to start with plants the easiest possible route. adding too many variables at first puts you behind in the game more often than not. a lot of people give up for these same exact reasons. then all the hard work and money invested is just a waste and you are left with nothing to show for it. living by the rules KISS (keep it simple stupid) can really help you with your success and help you take it step by step. at this point providing shade to your slower growers and getting down your npk dosing is not only the cheapest but also the simplest first steps. if you feel the need and are confident in going further then take the next step.

anyway... i don't think my tanks are the ones with problems right now. how bout we focus on the op's issues?

[tekonus]

First of all, I made absolutely no assumptions. I said nothing about your co2 levels. I'm far from 'pro' when it comes to plants. The only thing I gave was anecdotal evidence that maybe the lights were on too long...

[kreesdqban]

Would Flourish Excel make sense (money wise) as opposed to a yeast & sugar reactor for my size tank?

[dundadundun]

tekonus: i did not mean to come off the wrong way. if i did so i'm sorry.
i know you were not questioning my co2 but it was mentioned.
in my post i tried to answer all possible questions that might arise. there is a good bit of info there but it is in no way meant to be insulting.

kreesdqban: on a simply dollar per dollar outlook no the excel doesn't make sense. when you look at all the variables you are dealing with and the fact that you already have an algae issue diy is one variable i wouldn't want to be stuck with till you get things healthy. keeping a diy setup stable takes some tinkering and there's a definite learning curve no matter how much anyone can help you on a forum. each scoop of yeast is going to produce a slightly different outcome, water temp in your mix will greatly change the outcome, different diffusers will affect your outcome, different filters, surface agitation, night vs day saturation, etc., etc., etc..

basically dead fish, more algae than you can shake a stick at, too many variables to decide which one's off... these are some of the possible down sides to co2 injection... yes even with diy.

your tank is not too huge and your lighting is not too astronomical that you should HAVE to pump co2 in there anyway. i don't think you'd have to dose according to suggestions for a high light tank anyway so you can probably cut your dosing to maybe less than half what's recommended by seachem and see a decent difference in growth.

i doubt co2 is your problem anyway. planted tanks don't NEED co2 injection. it just helps promote better growth. like i said before some floaters will provide shade and utilize the abundant co2 in the air above the tank anyway.

get your dosing right and provide shade for those slower growers and see how that fairs you. if you want to add co2 after that go for it. if you still have algae issues though i wouldn't even attempt diy... too many headaches! i, like so many others have done it and made it work. it does always come down to that one time you change out your mix a day late and find your tank half covered in algae a few days later... then the struggle begins all over.

the best and most efficient way to go (as i'm sure we all know) is pressurized. if you can afford it i'd say don't hesitate but i don't think you'll need it unless you plan on packing your tank with fussy "high light" plants.

[kreesdqban]

I'll definitely take your advice and see how dosing does for me. I don't think I can have floaters in my tank though as the water level almost reaches the lid. I'll see if I get some Hygros and just some more plants in general and see how it goes.

Pressurized co2 is definitely out of my price range! lol

[dundadundun]

since i saw those 50 watts are equivalents and they're 14 actual i think you need at least one more and forget about the floaters. just put them side by side and space the light out as even as possible. if you want to do 2 more it won't hurt.

for some reason i was under the impression you were using vho cfl's when in actuality you're using regular cfl's. may i ask which brand and model bulbs you're using.

i've had good results with ge daylight 6500k, mixed to ok results with N:vision daylight and nothing good out of any other cfl i've been able to acquire.

EDIT: if your water doesn't touch your glass top you can have floaters. just my opinion.

[tekonus]

Sorry if I took that the wrong way.

[dundadundun]

it's completely understandable. expression gets lost in type.

[kreesdqban]

Well thanks for clearing that up dundadundun. I am using the N:vision daylight bulbs, i think 5000k, light output is 900 lumens each...

I may have space to put another bulb in the hood... So i'll definitely look into that. Maybe even swapping the 14's and putting in 25's...

So I'm getting algae because of my lack of light then?

[dundadundun]

it could be if your plants aren't thriving. i'd suspect low nutrient levels first though.

if you do switch bulbs you may want to consider using the ge daylights. one of my issues with the n:vision was not only did it grow my plants alright but it was great at growing algae. that may just be me though (the algae), but... it's not a huge investment to look into.

[kreesdqban]

Yeah I will definitely look into the GE's if I do replace my bulbs...

[kreesdqban]

I got some anacharis today, a good sized bunch of maybe 12-14 stems...

We'll see how they do

[Star_Rider]

Dundadundun,
are you pumping co2 thru the air pump?
or increaing circulation to help air/gas exchange?

while adding CO2 may not be needed in many set up's,. the addition of CO2 is beneficial to all planted tanks in general.
in high light/hitech tanks Ferts, lights on timers and CO2 all work together.
you can get by without CO2 addition in lower light tanks. but be watchful of algae which can become a problem.
but can be controlled with controlling light on timers.

[kreesdqban]

Just added one more 14 w EcoSmart bulb (not n:vision like I thought) to my setup to make it 3x 14 W CFL (@ 2400 lumens). This brings me roughly to 1 wpg. Hopefully I see some improvements!

[dundadundun]

Dundadundun,
are you pumping co2 thru the air pump? no
or increaing circulation to help air/gas exchange? not really, but yeah. i've actually increased my co2 level with a simple airstones and pump by utilizing excess in the atmosphere. thanks tom barr! i'm sure it helps with air exchange also and i have moved a couple of the airstones strategically to increase water movement in stagnant areas.

while adding CO2 may not be needed in many set up's,. the addition of CO2 is beneficial to all planted tanks in general. of course... if it's stable and levels are controlled
in high light/hitech tanks Ferts, lights on timers and CO2 all work together.same with "low light" ime. i do believe low light success is the question at hand considering the current lighting.
you can get by without CO2 addition in lower light tanks. but be watchful of algae which can become a problem.really? i've experienced quite the opposite.
but can be controlled with controlling light on timers.if co2 causes your algae why not limit co2 instead of light? seems simpler and common sense to me. i'm not saying necessarily cut it out altogether. once again my smaller tank runs up to 15 hours of light in a single day and i get better circulation out of my air pump than my filter (ie: very little). i keep my ferts and gh stable and everything's awesome. btw, that is on a timer... i cheaped out and got a no frills mechanical and the settings are all whacky. instead of fighting it i don't fix what's not broke.

you asked... answers in red since it seemed easier.