LED Spotlights = shimmer?

[Amphiprion]

A few threads described using LEDs in order to create the shimmer effect that is missing in fluorescent lighted tanks. I was looking at the following spotlight bulbs, which fit a standard base: http://www.ledwholesalers.com/store/index.php?act=viewProd&productId=196

I'm wondering if this has enough punch to accomplish what I want during the daylight hours. This is just for aesthetics only, though. I'm not really interested in a full LED lighting system. I have what we may as well consider zero experience with LEDs, minus the ones included in moonlights, so I'm not really sure if this will work the way I want it to. I basically have a clip-on fixture that will house this bulb. If it will work, I may even get two.

Thanks in advance

[Ace25]

I think that light will make a "washed out" look in the spot it is pointing down on. Too many led's in a confined area. I try and think of the "shimmer" led's as the same as stars on a clear night, just tiny spots of light that flicker. All you really need is those points of light, doesn't have to be bright at all, and some surface movement, and you get your shimmer. The more LEDs you add, the more complex the shimmer pattern / lines become on the bottom of the tank.

Without trying one of those bulbs, my best guess is, it will be very bright in one spot and have a very tight/spiderweb looking shimmer pattern just below the spot it is mounted, but the shimmer effect will be less noticeable the further away from the bulb you go. Those are 15degree LEDs it says, VERY tight beams. Great if you only have like 6 of them spread out over your tank.

Try to look for something with far less bulbs, maybe a night light type of LED light, night light as in the type you put in kids rooms.

Here you go, find something like this... actually I like this one, remote control lights and color options! :)

http://www.uxsight.com/product/10089/e27-multicolor-led-light-bulb-with-remote-control.html

http://www.uxsight.com/product/images/c/en/e27-multicolor-led-light-bulb-with-remote-control-xs0036081009c.jpg

[Amphiprion]

I'll keep the above in mind for sure, but what about dimmer, wider beams? Maybe 45 degree?

Edit: I was mainly referring to the white CREE led bulb: http://www.ledwholesalers.com/store/index.php?act=viewProd&productId=197

[Ace25]

Those cree bulbs would be a much better option than the spotlight. I still think you may need 2 of the cree bulbs over a 40G tank, but you can always start with one and if you think you need a second, add it later. 1 will still give you a pretty good shimmer, but may not cover the entire tank. At $30ea, that is $60 for 2 bulbs, I can build a better shimmer light for 1/3 the cost, as is the usual case for "retro" vs "fixture". ;)

[Amphiprion]

True, but I'm not in the DIY mood :D. I don't plan on doing it immediately, but I wanted to get an idea of what I'd need to get the job done. I will more than likely, when I decide to do it, get one and see how I like it and just go from there. If I need two, I'll get the other eventually.

[Conski]

could always look at the bulb i bought from nano tuners, LOL it is only covering one gallon but holllly crap is there alot of shimmer

as for DIY electronics arent my thing so good luck

http://www.uxsight.com/product/10089...e-control.html (http://www.uxsight.com/product/10089/e27-multicolor-led-light-bulb-with-remote-control.html)

btw ace thanks for showing me that ^ that woulda been so perfect and alot cheaper!!! i dk if its enough power though

[Ace25]

No, definitely not enough power to grow corals, only to add accent light/shimmer.

[davocean]

The bulb you posted is very much like a spot light, and ones I've seen similar ran warm on top of it.
I was playing around w/ these and they are my favorite at this time for color adjust and shimmer.
Very compact and well sealed, linkable.
http://www.ecoxotic.com/catalog/product/view/id/55/s/stunner-led-strips/category/3/

[Ace25]

Yup, that is a nice LED strip as well.. still, I couldn't justify the cost ($70 for strip+power supply) and I still think I could build one that is better AND cheaper in just a couple minutes.

The problem I have with all these suggestions is the LEDs are too many, and too close to each other. You really don't need that many LEDs to add shimmer. My Ideal LED Shimmer light would be something that was built like that strip LED, except it would be little "Pods", 1 LED per Pod that is linkable and you just stick how ever many pods you need to get the shimmer. On my 30"x24" tank, I would only need 4-6 Pods spread around the tank to give me shimmer (if I wasn't running a MH already). That strip has 24 LEDs per 24" strip, way overkill and way to close to each other for what they are used for.... just overkill IMO. They would definitely work for shimmer though, no question about that.

[xsdbs]

Amp, forgive me. I am not trying to HIJACK your thread but did have a couple questions for Ace. Thanks,


Ace, I was looking at the company that you gave me a link to a short while back. (work has been had me on some crazy hrs)Being confused a little I sent them an email and the finally got back to me with a couple suggestions:


ECW102W 10x10mm LED w/ Reflector 23,000mcds @ 60deg angle
http://www.eled.com/product.asp?catalog_name=leds&product_id=ecw102w (http://www.eled.com/product.asp?catalog_name=leds&product_id=ecw102w)
ECW95W-2 10x10mm LED w/ Dome Lens 60,000mcds @ 20deg angle
http://www.eled.com/product.asp?catalog_name=leds&product_id=ecw95w-2 (http://www.eled.com/product.asp?catalog_name=leds&product_id=ecw95w-2)

On eBay we're also promoting ESBW83W which is a 7.6x7.6mm Super Flux LED w/ 1,295mcd @ 70deg angle. With multiple Super Flux LEDs you may get the light dispersion coverage needed since it provides a wider viewing angle.
http://cgi.ebay.com/25pcs-7-6x7-6mm-White-Superflux-LED-Bag-Bulk-LEDs_W0QQitemZ300391209336QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_De faultDomain_0?hash=item45f0b61978 (http://cgi.ebay.com/25pcs-7-6x7-6mm-White-Superflux-LED-Bag-Bulk-LEDs_W0QQitemZ300391209336QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_De faultDomain_0?hash=item45f0b61978)
Any thoughts on them. Also when I was looking at them I saw ratings for Lumens and MCD. I would think that I would want the higher Lumens correct? I am not sure what the "MCD" means. Thanks

[DoctaQ]

Amp, forgive me. I am not trying to HIJACK your thread but did have a couple questions for Ace. Thanks,


Ace, I was looking at the company that you gave me a link to a short while back. (work has been had me on some crazy hrs)Being confused a little I sent them an email and the finally got back to me with a couple suggestions:


ECW102W 10x10mm LED w/ Reflector 23,000mcds @ 60deg angle
http://www.eled.com/product.asp?catalog_name=leds&product_id=ecw102w (http://www.eled.com/product.asp?catalog_name=leds&product_id=ecw102w)
ECW95W-2 10x10mm LED w/ Dome Lens 60,000mcds @ 20deg angle
http://www.eled.com/product.asp?catalog_name=leds&product_id=ecw95w-2 (http://www.eled.com/product.asp?catalog_name=leds&product_id=ecw95w-2)

On eBay we're also promoting ESBW83W which is a 7.6x7.6mm Super Flux LED w/ 1,295mcd @ 70deg angle. With multiple Super Flux LEDs you may get the light dispersion coverage needed since it provides a wider viewing angle.
http://cgi.ebay.com/25pcs-7-6x7-6mm-White-Superflux-LED-Bag-Bulk-LEDs_W0QQitemZ300391209336QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_De faultDomain_0?hash=item45f0b61978 (http://cgi.ebay.com/25pcs-7-6x7-6mm-White-Superflux-LED-Bag-Bulk-LEDs_W0QQitemZ300391209336QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_De faultDomain_0?hash=item45f0b61978)
Any thoughts on them. Also when I was looking at them I saw ratings for Lumens and MCD. I would think that I would want the higher Lumens correct? I am not sure what the "MCD" means. Thanks

the first two drive at very low current, which means more than likeley they are very weak, crees are like double the price for at least 3 times the output.
fw, planted shallow tank, maybe, reef, shimmer effect only, wont be that strong though

the last one could maybe be used for a moonlight, but are even weaker than the first two, no getting a lot of them would not help.

[Amphiprion]

For reference, mcd refers to millicandelas, which refers to light/luminous intensity.

[DoctaQ]

ive seen a 5 cree fixture out there thats probably for what youre talking about but i think the retail price is about 200 or so

[Ace25]

Let's get back to basics.. shimmer=point of light. The more you stretch that light out, the less shimmer you will get. With that information, what do people think would be the better of the 2 options?

10x 20degree LEDs or
5x 60degree LEDs

The 10x 20degree is better.. it will make more shimmer. Yes, you need more LEDs to get the coverage you want, but if your entire goal is merely to add the shimmer effect to the tank, then get the best LED/angle for that particular job. These types of LED lights are for only 1 purpose and are in no way meant to add any PAR to your current lighting. With the current little LED moonlight I made for my tank I get some insane blue moonlight shimmer at night.. it looks so cool.

When you get into the high output LEDs for actual growth of corals and such, then wider angles become more important because it blends the blues and white together so you don't get multi-color spots in your tank.

[xsdbs]

So then really neither of the ones that are suggested would be a good option. Correct

[Ace25]

I have no idea, those are not LEDs I have ever used. I only use the 3mm or 5mm "through hole" type in 20degree .. normal looking LEDs, not surface mount or anything fancy like that.

This is the LED I would use myself if I build a shimmer light.

E7114RWC-Z - 5MM WHITE LED

The one you listed, ECW95W-2 - 10X10MM WHITE SMD LED W/ DOME LENS, may also work, but I like to stick the the standard LEDs I am familiar with.

[xsdbs]

Ace, I was looking at this led from another company. I wanted your thoughts.

http://www.superbrightleds.com/cgi-bin/store/index.cgi?action=DispPage&Page2Disp=%2Fspecs%2FW18030.htm

[Ucan]

Yup, that is a nice LED strip as well.. still, I couldn't justify the cost ($70 for strip+power supply) and I still think I could build one that is better AND cheaper in just a couple minutes.
.

Hi Ace25. I have no experience in circuits, soldering etc. Do you think I can build one for my 25g tank just for shimmer effects as well? Or, would you consider building one for me and selling me? Thanks.

[redfishblewfish]

Amp, I’ve played with both bipin and cree type LEDs that fit standard screw-in fixtures. Actually the one fixture I built for my freshwater tank, I found plastic bases at Home Depot for around $1.50 each.

With either type of LED you do get that shimmer. I originally had eight bipin 3.5 watts each setup on my 75 gallon fresh. Got nice shimmer. Was concerned that I wasn’t giving my plants enough “right” light, so I went back to one 2-bulb fluorescent fixture with one 4-bulb LED fixture. The fluorescent fixture washed out some of the shimmer. I still have some shimmer, but not as strong as when it was all LED. Here’s a picture of the current freshwater setup:

Four Bulb Fixture:
http://i419.photobucket.com/albums/pp271/psh54/IMG_5323.jpg

Hanging in the Hood:
http://i419.photobucket.com/albums/pp271/psh54/IMG_5327.jpg


With the cree type LED, I purchased, I think, a 9 watt bulb. This bulb is currently being used in my saltwater refugium…with shimmer. However, that is the only bulb I have over the refugium

http://i419.photobucket.com/albums/pp271/psh54/IMG_0005.jpg

With both these type bulbs, I purchased “Light of America” bulbs from Sam’s Club. The 3.5 watt bulbs were 2 bulbs for approximately $15. The 9 watt cree type was about $20 for one bulb.

Bottom line, I think your primary light source (fluorescents) will wash out some, if not all, the shimmer effect you are looking for. I would still try it, especially with the relatively low price I paid for the bulbs, because if it doesn’t work, you can still use the bulbs around your house and save on electricity.

[Jstdv8]

I'm no LED expert but I have done ALOT of reading about DIY. If youwanted to make a shimmer only is seems to me that the best bet would be to go without optics so you get a good spread, The downside is you will need more lights to be powerfull enough to compete with your T-5s or whatever. People have shown to just get a spotlight effect in their water with optics unless they arehigh off the tank and then you need a bunch of them for coverage. really the downside to LED's

[DoctaQ]

i think it everytime i read about it, but ive never said it.
high powered leds and regular 5mm and 10mm leds are not the same, they arent even close. think about the difference between little keychain led lights and a 200 dollar mc-e flashlight that is brighter than headlights (possibly exagerating here). any of the better high powered leds will have spectral graphs and exact measurments of brightness at different drive currents, also, they require heatsinking.

95% of the time, if your leds do not have some kind of heatsink attached to them, they will not have real output power, exotic stunners and panorama and those other fixtures could possibly be an exception, i personally do not know.

[lanimret]

Just to derail this thread even further.

I've been seriously considering using LED's for the two 100g tanks I am currently putting together. My plan is to use a single solar tube (14") for each tank, then LED's for supplemental/evening lighting.

The problem is trying to figure out how much supplemental lighting is required coupled with a solar tube, and how much lighting is required for purely aesthetic purposes in the evening. I've read just about every thread I can find here, and a couple other sites, and those specifics still elude me.

The reason for doing all this is of course to keep maintenance costs down (I'd rather spend more up-front and save money long term) and get the healthiest environment possible at the same time. The shimmer would be a nice bonus too.

[DoctaQ]

that sounds awesome actually, if this is for a reef tank, to counter the white/yellowness of sunlight to add blues to the mix.