tank setup plan

[ben72227]

Hey everyone, I'm not sure when I'll set this up, but i was wondering about the following setup:

30 Gallon AGA Tank(I would get larger, but i don't have much
space to work with)
CustomSeaLife 2 x 96 PC/Moonlight Lighting System
2 Maxijet 900s for Water Movement
EboJager 150 Watt Heater
AquaC Remora w/ MaxiJet 1200
Possibly an AquaClear 150 for more water circulation

I'll probably get a Perfecto Glass Canopy - but i'm wondering if there is cut out space in the back of them to put the skimmers, powerheads, etc.

I also have a empty 10 gallon that i would like to use for a sump, but i don't really know much about how sumps work and im not really into drilling holes into my 30 gallon tank. I saw that there is an alternative - "overflow" thing (i think thats what it's called) that uses siphoning to bring the water down to the sump(and you don't have to drill any holes), but i'm afraid that if there was a power outage (and there are a lot of them where i live) that the sump return would go off and the siphon would keep going and eventually flood over. Please explain this to me!

Seeing as this is my first tank, I'd like to go with FOWLR and use Fiji LR (as TBS LR has so many invertes, anemones, etc. and i don't really want to mess with those yet until i can manage the fish first) and i'll probably use some playsand for the subtrate

Here are the fish i want to keep:

2 (Pair) Ocellaris Clownfish
1 Banggai Cardinal
1 tiger pistol shrimp
I wanted a White Ray Shrimp Goby (Stonogobiops), but they are a bit pricey for me, so what other gobies would work well in this setup and would also form the symbiotic relation with the tiger pistol shrimp?

Thanks (and if there's anything i left out please tell me)!

[OrionGirl]

Glass canopies usually come with about 2 inches of plastic 'space'--a thin strip that goes on the back and can be cut to allow room for cords, etc.

For the overflow--overflows work with 2 boxes. The one on the inside skims from the surface, and controls how low the water level in the tank will drop by means of 'teeth'. Once the water drops below those teeth, it won't remove anymore from the tank, but the siphon won't break. So, when the power goes out, the water level drops to the bottom of these teeth, and then stops. Your sump should be large enough to accomodate this much water--it takes a bit of trial and error in advance to determine the appropriate water level to maintain. The return line from the sump needs a hole drilled just above or slightly below the normal water line inside the tank, so if the power goes out, your return won't siphon water from the tank. I have overflows running on 4 tanks right now, and have experienced many power losses (including a 20 minute brown out last Saturday!) and have never flooded as a result.

The Hi fin red banded goby will pair with a shirmp. LiveAquaria.com carries them: http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/prod_Display.cfm?siteid=21&pCatId=181

Looks like a good plan!

[ben72227]

Thanks OrionGirl! I also have a couple of other questions too.

I think I understand what you are saying about sumps, but could you show me some pictures (if you have any)?

I also was wondering about how much sand i should use and what kind of playsand i should look for (i know that southdown and old castle are the best but if my home depot doesn't have those are there any specific sand types? i was reading something about aroganite and sillica but i don't know what those are exactly)? Also, i've read that a lot of people use DSBs but that some others only use 2-3" of sand in their tanks? Any thoughts on this?

Also, what websites do you recommend to order Fiji LR from? I went to liveaquaria.com and they had some there that looked nice. Have you or anyone else had experience with liveaquaria.com ?

Also, if i get a pair of clowns, do they have to be the same species? Could i have a percula and an ocellaris in the same tank?

[Gealcath]

I would be careful with a Pistol Shrimp, they are in the same familiy as Mantis Shrimp, and might try to kill or eat any fish they can catch, and they do it rather skillfully.

[ben72227]

Actually, although they're in the same family, they aren't that much alike (aside from the noise they make with their pincers). Pistol Shrimp aren't harmful and don't pose a threat in the tank, except (possibly) for very small shrimp - which i don't plan on keeping.

[OrionGirl]

For sand, you want the smallest grain size you can find. Aragonite means the sand is made from finely crushing coral, so it's calcium based. Silica is from granite and won't buffer the tank, but is otherwise fine to use. Anywhere up from about 2 inches will be beneficial. Since you want the goby/shrimp pair, I would go with at least 3 inches, to make them a more comfortable burrow.

I haven't ordered live rock from the net--but liveaquaria has a good reputation.

I would not mix clown species, especially in less than a 75 gallon tank. They tend to be very aggressive to similar looking fish. I don't know if the same would be true with percula and oscellaris, but I would not want to risk it. For such cute fish, they can be brutal.

[ben72227]

Okay, so heres what i need to know now:

In what order should i put the fish in the tank?

I still would like to see pics. of an overflow sump thingie.

How good is the lighting i talked about? If i wanted to convert to a reef tank, what would that kind of lighting support?

Finally, when should i add the clean up crew and what should it consist of?

Thanks

[ben72227]

oh, almost forgot, what type of foods do those fish eat?

Could I feed them a diet of frozen mysid/brine shrimp with some prime reef flake to supplement or what do they need? do some of the fish have individual dieting needs that are different from the rest of the fish?

[OrionGirl]

Least aggressive first--I would go with the goby, then the cardinal, clowns last.

Yes, lighting will be good for a reef. You might not be able to have clams, but most softies and some hard corals will be fine and happy. I would not put in an anenome, but that's more due to their need for established tanks and difficulty.

I don't have a pic--check in DIY and see if anyone's posted a pic. I think I recall seeing one or two.

Clean up: hermits, snails, crabs. Get a mix of snails (some graze rocks, others bury themselves in the sand, you want both).

[ben72227]

so how did the food suggestions sound?

[BrianH]

see the enclosed link for a picture of one of the better overflows made. lifereef (http://www.lifereef.com/frame.html)

Brian

[ben72227]

okay, from looking at all of the sumps, overflows, etc., here is a drawing i've come up with:

http://www.rct524.com/fish/sumpdrawing.JPG

how does this look? did i leave any thing off? I still don't completly understand how to prevent a major catatrophe if the power goes out and the siphon is still siphoing? Also, when the power goes out, how do i prevent the return from flowing back into the sump?

[BrianH]

Your diagram is correct. Let me make a suggestion. The remora is a fine HOT skimmer, but if your going with a sump, buy a true in-sump skimmer. The better ones perform much better than any HOT type. Check into the Aqua C EV series, Euro-reef (the ES series may be your best bang for the buck), ETSS, Lifereef, Deltec etc.

When you experience a power outage, the water will keep draining from your tank until the water level goes below the teeth on the overflow inside your tank. When this happens the water level in the tank is below the overflow box so the flow will stop. You just have to make sure you leave enough volume available in your sump to handle this. During normal operation your 10gal sump should probably have about 5gal of water in it. This way you have another 5gal of volume available during a power outage. The reason i suggested the lifereef overflow is that I have never heard of anyone having any tank overflows due to a power outage or pump malfunction while using one. These models, and all good ones IMO have a small resavoir that keeps the U tupe full of water during an outage so when the pump turns back on the siphon was not broken and the overflow goes back to working. I would test this when you first set up the sump. One reason is to make sure you have left enough volume in the sump to hanle a power aoutage, the other is to make sure you have the overflow stu up correctly. I would recommend you stay away from the cpr overflows. I heard many stories of them losing siphon and overflowing the tank during power outages and subsequent power returns.

I think Orion mentioned drilling a small hole in your return line just below the water level. This sould stop any siphoning of your tank through the return line during a power outage.

Brian

[ben72227]

Thanks for explaining that to me Brian. I think i pretty much understand it now.

i have some more questions:

Is there a food that all of these fish would eat, say for example, frozen mysid/brine or prime reef flake? Or do they need something special in their diet?

When i get the two clowns, should i try to buy them as a pair or is it okay for me to buy them separately and add one first and add another one later?

Could i put any plants (seaweed) in my tank? If so, what would you recommend?

[OrionGirl]

For feeding, I prefer a variety of foods instead of just one thing. I feed frozen foods mostly--Emerald Entree, blood worms, brine shrimp, and Formula One or Formula Two. Flakes get sucked into the overflow too quickly to be convenient.

Add clowns at the same time. Don't have to be from the same tank, or sold as a pair, but adding one first will allow it to claim the entire tank and make it very aggressive to the second addition.

There are several macro algaes that are great for nitrate removal. Saw blade and grape caulerpa are the most common, with halimeda a close second. They are good, but require pruning to prevent them from over growing the tank. If you can provide lighting for the sump, you could put the macros in there, and run the lights opposite of the tank lights. This will help stabilize the pH of your tank (not a huge deal, more like a perk).

[DEmigh]

Originally posted by BrianH
see the enclosed link for a picture of one of the better overflows made. lifereef (http://www.lifereef.com/frame.html)

Brian

Thanks for the great link! It confirms feasibility of a DIY that's been bouncing around in my head for a week or so.

[ben72227]

Thanks once again for the info Orion Girl.

Here's some background info. on my situation:
I'm not sure if i should buy most of my stuff online or get it locally. Here where i live - Little Rock, AR (capital city) we used to have a LFS specifically for Salt Water but they went out of business and so now we have is petsmart who have some saltwater equipment (Instant Ocean, Lights, etc.)but are more geared towards FW. We just got a petco that i haven't been to yet (do they carry sw fish?i'm assuming they don't). About 50 miles south in pine bluff there is an extremly good lfs/petstore. its out in the country and they have some other animals (chickens, rabbits, puppies, and other pets you'd have in AR), but they have tons of (over 400 tanks) fish and about 15% of that is SW. I could probably get stuff from there like live stock (i saw last time i was there that they had a couple of different clowns and some damsels and some other stuff (some of the more commonly bought fish)) but im not sure if they would have the cardinals or gobies. I remember seeing in the front of the store that had a huge 400gallon reef display tank filled with tons of stuff. I'm not sure how much they sell LR for either. So what do you think i should do? They're real nice and friendly people(they're real knowledgeable too), but I don't go down there much cause it's way out of the way and i can't see myself traveling for 2 hours back and forth everytime i need to get something.

OrionGirl - I see you live in WY (there's not very many people there ?)- where do you get your stuff from? Do you have a really good LFS where you live that sells SW stuff? or do you go to somewhere else?

In the meantime, seeing that this book was highly recommended by almost everybody, I've ordered Fenner's Conscientious Marine Aquarist, and i already have the new marine aquarium by paletta and marine fishes by michaels, both of which are very informative and pretty up to date.

Thanks so much for everyones support and help so far.

[ben72227]

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[ben72227]

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[vance]

oriongirl how many tanks do you have? i have seen you all over aquaria central. im impressed!

[ben72227]

hey everyone. i just got fenner's Conscientious Marine Aquarist in the mail. it's HUGE! and packed with tons of info. i'm suprised how much of the info. in there still seems to be non-obsolete considering it's been out for a while.

[OrionGirl]

Sorry--I wasn't paying attention!

I would contact the good store and see if they can order stuff in for you. Many LFS will do this--it helps them establish a good customer base. For hardware/equipment, I buy online regularly. I will sometimes pick something up from a LFS that I like and want to support, but the costs is usually 2-3 times more than online. For plants, I shop equally online and locally. For fish--I prefer seeing them before I buy them, but will buy online if I can't get it locally.

I am really lucky--there is a good store in town, and Fort Collins is only 45 minutes away--I end up down there at least once a month. I've shopped other Wyoming towns for fish, and it's pretty meager pickings in most of them.

For tanks: FW 2x55's, 1x40, 1x20
SW 2x65's, 1x50, 1x10.
The 65's are soon to be upgraded to 120's.

[ben72227]

thanks for the advice